5th Park!

[CanadianGuy]

I plan on living for ever so "never"="lifetime"

Oh well that changes everything then.

Thanks for at least discussing it rationally.

Knox

 

[Another Voice]

I think it depends on what the potential 5th gate actually is. EPCOT Center brought an entirely new and different demographic to WDW and completely changed the nature of the resort. Unfortunetly, the follow-up parks (Studios and Animal Kingdom) are nothing but derivatives of a standard theme park which undid all the changes that EPCOT Center created (and now Disney has spent the last decade dumbing down Epcot as well).

Disney tried with The Disney Institute to bring a different aspect to the resort, but they shot way, way too high and aimed at Eisner's "better class of people" crowd instead of really finding a good market to go after.

Disney could have done with even something like Animal Kingdom had Disney really been willing to take a risk and create something beyond unique. Imagine a the $300 a day park that's really done up like a safari - you camp out in the middle of the wildlife enclosers listening to the lions roar all night long. You want through trails or take a private jeep in search of elephants. Maybe there's a forgotten cave just outside the village you might want to explore...

People will pay large sums of money for truely unique and "dreamfulfilling" experiences. Many people dream of really seeing an elephant in the wild, far fewer people dream of seeing one in theme park with twenty other people wedged into your fake jeep.

 

[Goofy45]

I just listened to a podcast on this site and the guy said that there was going to be a 5th theme park. He said that it is going to be a "Villain" themed park. He also said it might be near the Wide World of Sports. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

 

[stepnut]

A theme park that celebrates "villains" will never see me enter its gates.

 

[All Aboard]

I just listened to a podcast on this site and the guy said that there was going to be a 5th theme park. He said that it is going to be a "Villain" themed park. He also said it might be near the Wide World of Sports. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Was that a podcast from 2002? (or any year between then and now)? No, wait, there weren't podcasts in 2002, were there?

 

[wulfgeat]

People will pay large sums of money for truely unique and "dreamfulfilling" experiences.

Can Disney make a profit (or large enough profit) on a $300 ticket? That will price a large number of people out. To me trying to create a truly unique experience at Disney is like the quote about acting (or management). "The most important thing is sincerity. And if you can fake that, you've got it made.

I think Disney would be better served in really increasing the demand for AKL and HS. The additional rooms are pulling more people and the parks currently will not hold people long enough. When we visit AKL and HS are 1/2 days for the most part. Grow these two parks closer to capacity and then launch something new.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney already convinces hundreds, if not thousands, of people to spend $300+ a night on a hotel room. You have to figure that someone dropping $1200 on a suite would be the prime target for an exclusive park. And certainly Sea World is filling up their $200+ park. Disney would certainly be able to top that.

The problem with increasing capacity at the Studios or Animal Kingdom is that it doesn't bring in any more money. You buy the ticket and that's all that Disney gets if you spend an hour or eight hours in the park. Meals - if you don't eat lunch at Animal Kimgdom you're going to eat it a Epcot so there's limited value in "trapping" people inside a single park.

And that is the giant problem with Animal Kingdom. Disney expected people to extend their stay by an additional day - another theme park admission, another hotel room night, three more meals. But what happened is people didn't spend the extra day...they just cut short their visits to the other three parks. Disney dropped $800 million just to reallocate spending but didn't bring any new money in.

At this point, there's no real thought that a fifth park would extend people's trips either. People are basically "maxed out" on the time they want to spend going to theme parks. Disney's only opportunity would be to create something so radically different an unique that people would change their mind. Something far beyond villian roller coasters and water slides. But "different" equals "risk" and that is something Disney refuses to engage in anymore.

So the plan is to sell you the same park a couple times over. You buy your regular ticket during the day, then you buy your "special event" ticket for the evening. Two visits to the Magic Kingdom for the price of two! Look for something similar to start cropping up at Disney Studios soon. Also look for "in park" charged events to expand. More Fantasmic! Dining Plans, special stage presenations, more ways of getting cash after you've bought your ticket.

 

[I'mNoPrince]

>........

So the plan is to sell you the same park a couple times over. You buy your regular ticket during the day, then you buy your "special event" ticket for the evening. Two visits to the Magic Kingdom for the price of two! Look for something similar to start cropping up at Disney Studios soon. Also look for "in park" charged events to expand. More Fantasmic! Dining Plans, special stage presenations, more ways of getting cash after you've bought your ticket.

ITA with this looks like they are already extending the P&PP and this does 2 things it Gets that extra money and also forces the rest into the other parks as MK closes at 7pm.

AK they are limited but Epcot and and DHS they could come up with something real fast. I see DHS maybe getting the NBX layover Party or something like it. And they could extend that right into X=mas with some of the Displays.

 

[MJMcBride]

I just listened to a podcast on this site and the guy said that there was going to be a 5th theme park. He said that it is going to be a "Villain" themed park. He also said it might be near the Wide World of Sports. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

It will never happen.

Alright...It won't happen in my lifetime

Happy Knox?

 

[Another Voice]

AK they are limited...

Animal Kingdom was designed and built as a "full time" park with extended nighttime hours. Even the savannah and the safrai jeeps were rigged with lights so the attraction could operate at night.

But the park opened to very poor attendance and WDW cut the park hours to improve its financials (which WDW had been doing to all the parks anyway). The "the animals need their rest" spin was just a marketing line that the Internet bought. In reality, the animals are caged at night far away from the "theme park" section of the park. Only fireworks would prove a problem, not running rides, shows and parades. Besides, hundreds of zoos around the country run evening programs and even sleep-overs.

An idea Disney is looking at carefully as a "second ticket" event for AK.

 

[larry_poppins]

The last time I priced Sea World's Discovery Cove it was around $279! Their $200+ park is going to be a $300 park very soon

 

[MJMcBride]

Animal Kingdom was designed and built as a "full time" park with extended nighttime hours. Even the savannah and the safrai jeeps were rigged with lights so the attraction could operate at night.

I never liked the idea. I would think while plausible to do, it would be difficult to visualize the animals.

In reality, the animals are caged at night far away from the "theme park" section of the park. Only fireworks would prove a problem, not running rides, shows and parades. Besides, hundreds of zoos around the country run evening programs and even sleep-overs.

Very true. My zoo has great success with sleepovers and during the holidays has a money making "holiday lights" event which is excellent. However, not all of our exhibits (in fact less than half) are open to the public during these events.

An idea Disney is looking at carefully as a "second ticket" event for AK.

I'm still holding out hope for a Beastly Kingdomme (perhaps converted to a Narnia land) or further developement in the Nemo section to either an Atlantis or Australia land. But your statement seems more likely.

I think a nightime lantern light parade would be interesting as well

 

[Another Voice]

I won't hold out hope for a large capital investment at Animal Kingdom. The indications are Disney feels it's already the right size - just not enough people go to it (yes, that's what they think about Hong Kong Disneyland too). Over the decades we'll see a few attractions added here and there, but no new lands unless there's a huge merchandise shurge coming off a movie.

Part of the reason that Beatly Kingdom is dead is that the Camp does what Disney wants - it sells the characters. Iger is really, really pushing the idea that the parks are for a "Disney Brand Experience", meaning that they hock products from all over the company. You can really see this in action in the DCA "remake". That parking lot carnival has a heap load of problems, but lacking Mermaid and Cars attractions are not on the list. Instead, those attractions were selected to a) add another princess to the marketing line and b) keep selling mini-cars and c) because they can be easily inserted into other Disney parks.

It's also this thinking that will keep Disney from building a fifth theme park. The thinking goes like this. Way back in the day, department stores had a giant single location downtown and people had to travel into the city to shop there. Then, the big stores discovered you could actually sell a lot more if you had a bunch of smaller stores that were closer to the customer. That's one of the lines in Disney's thinking.

If the parks are just places to stage princess dining experiences - doesn't it make sense to open up lots of smaller places closer to people than expect them to travel all the way to Orlando? Instead of getting people to visit one a year - you can get them to come a couple times a year. And think of the business from birthday parties! What parent would shell out $250 a head so their precious DD could have Cinderella help blow out the candles.

Disney has tried for decades to develop "regional entertainment" concepts. So far they haven't found anything that worked. But Eisner wasn't as interested in the concept as much as the current management is. Instead of one Beatly Kingdom - we're going to see twenty Chef Mickey's.

 

[micki7337]

Remember a bunch of years ago almost 10. we heard that they were never going to open a 4th gate. So remember never is a really long time and Disney never says never.

 

[DancingBear]

Well, AK was announced in 1995, so that would have been a pretty stupid thing to say 10 years ago.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

There will eventually be a 5th park, just not any time soon....

 

[CanadianGuy]

It will never happen.

Alright...It won't happen in my lifetime

Happy Knox?

And I thought you were going to live forever... maybe there's some room for you in the cryogenic chamber... (cough)

 

[Maistre Gracey]

And that is the giant problem with Animal Kingdom. Disney expected people to extend their stay by an additional day - another theme park admission, another hotel room night, three more meals. But what happened is people didn't spend the extra day...they just cut short their visits to the other three parks. Disney dropped $800 million just to reallocate spending but didn't bring any new money in.

I know AK brought in at least some cash.
We had to pay a sur-charge on our AP to add AK when it opened, as I'm sure everyone else did. I would also bet the price of a Hopper ticket increased accordingly, outside of the normal annual price increase.

Perhaps people didn't extend their vacation. After all, people only get so many vacation days.
That said, maybe they visited WDW on a second vacation instead of taking that trip to Yellowstone.

MG

 

[MJMcBride]

Remember a bunch of years ago almost 10. we heard that they were never going to open a 4th gate. So remember never is a really long time and Disney never says never.

And many within Disney would tell you building a 4th park was a mistake

 

[MJMcBride]

I won't hold out hope for a large capital investment at Animal Kingdom. The indications are Disney feels it's already the right size - just not enough people go to it (yes, that's what they think about Hong Kong Disneyland too). Over the decades we'll see a few attractions added here and there, but no new lands unless there's a huge merchandise shurge coming off a movie.

But DAK seriously underperforms MK and Epcot in local and single day traffic mostly, I think, because its (erroneously) viewed as a half day park. They could someday come to the conclusion that single day sales would increase with a new "land."