50 Point DVC Buy In

[GrazingGoat1966]

Most posters seems to be making assumptions that DVCers are punters who are able to vacation every year. Whilst this may (or may not) be correct, there are a lot of people like myself who for varying reasons are unable to take advantage of their points EVERY year, so we save up for a 2 or 3 yearly vacation. Me, because I live in Australia, and am unable (as much as I'd like) to visit every year. So for us with our contract (100 points at AKL), every 2-3 years allows us to accumulate points and have a 7-10 day holiday at the world bi or triannually.
Those buying in at a 50 point level would have 150 points every three years thereby allowing 2 weeks in a studio at AKL or 13 nights at OKW (albeit during low season). Perfect to a great deal of punters who for varying reasons are unable (or unwilling) to take on 100 points +.

People should not feel like "outsiders" because they choose to buy in at 50 points. Unfortunately there seems to be an unhealthy degree of pomposity starting to rear it's head more and more regularly on various disboards discussions.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but it's a sad fact.

 

[gkrykewy]

Well, at $30-45 per point more than resale, DVC is hardly giving anything away!

They suck people in with the small buy-in and the make-believe gift of 2009 points (which the buyer was entitled to all along) and folks bite. There's a saying about that, but I don't want to use it.

DVC does many things, but they have never "given away" a thing...at least not in the last 5 years that I've been a member.

a) I don't think the direct/resale price discrepancy is nearly that wide for 50 pt contracts. I could be wrong.

b) you seem to be on a crusade to convince people not to be pleased to be receiving prior year points when buying direct. The points *feel* free because you don't pay maintenance fees on them, and if you don't act soon enough you don't get them. This is also not a case of sleazy guides misleading buyers. When we bought our addon last year, our guide didn't even mention the 2008 points; i was the one who brought them up.

 

[JimMIA]

a) I don't think the direct/resale price discrepancy is nearly that wide for 50 pt contracts. I could be wrong.

I'm sure you are correct. On the resale market, small contracts usually command higher prices; buying direct the price is the same regardless of how many you buy. But resale will still be quite a bit less expensive.

b) you seem to be on a crusade to convince people not to be pleased to be receiving prior year points when buying direct. The points *feel* free because you don't pay maintenance fees on them, and if you don't act soon enough you don't get them.

No, I just think many, many unwary buyers are misled into thinking they are getting something for nothing. It's simply not true that 2009 points are free, no matter how a guide or anyone else tries to twist the words and logic. They are the points you are entitled to anyway.

And, maintenance fees have nothing to do with points or Use Year. That's another myth guides perpetuate. Maintenance fees cover the expenses of running the resort for the calendar year -- NOTHING to do with whatever points you receive during that period.

This is also not a case of sleazy guides misleading buyers. When we bought our addon last year, our guide didn't even mention the 2008 points; i was the one who brought them up.

In your one instance, it was not the case. But does that mean you would not have gotten those points if you hadn't mentioned them? No -- it probably means your guide knew you would get them anyway and didn't see any reason to make a big deal about it.

There is ample evidence in some of these threads that prospective buyers have been deliberately misled by guides. Not every guide misleads, and not every guide misleads every customer.

 

[gkrykewy]

But resale will still be quite a bit less expensive.

This is often not the case for small contracts after considering closing costs, particularly if the buyer places **gasp** value on prior (tail-end?) year points, which are often not available for resale contracts.

No, I just think many, many unwary buyers are misled into thinking they are getting something for nothing. It's simply not true that 2009 points are free, no matter how a guide or anyone else tries to twist the words and logic. They are the points you are entitled to anyway.

I think they can be both free and entitlements from the perspective of the buyer. Hypothetical example: I have an August use year. If I buy 50 points at AKV on July 31st, I pay $5600 and get 100 points that are available to use the next day. If I buy the same 50 points at AKV on August 1st, I still pay $5600 but have only 50 points that are available to use the next day. From my perspective, those extra 50 points are a no-cost bonus, ergo, they are free.

 

[JimMIA]

This is often not the case for small contracts after considering closing costs, particularly if the buyer places **gasp** value on prior (tail-end?) year points, which are often not available for resale contracts.

It all depends on the deal, and we can frame the examples to "prove" whatever we want. Using TTS' minimum closing costs of $322, closing would add $6.44 per point to the effective resale price on a 50-point contract. You just have to do the math and see which is better.

Depending on which resort you are buying and the actual price for the resale (which is negotiable), buying direct might be about the same -- or close enough that you'd just buy direct for the simplicity. That was the case for us five years ago when we bought SSR direct -- it was a more attractive price.

Generally, the issue with small contracts resale is finding them, not the price. That is one big advantage of buying direct - you can specify exactly the number of points you want to buy.

I think they can be both free and entitlements from the perspective of the buyer. Hypothetical example: I have an August use year. If I buy 50 points at AKV on July 31st, I pay $5600 and get 100 points that are available to use the next day. If I buy the same 50 points at AKV on August 1st, I still pay $5600 but have only 50 points that are available to use the next day. From my perspective, those extra 50 points are a no-cost bonus, ergo, they are free.

Yeah, and I can buy a resale on August 1 and get 50 banked points for $4600 including closing costs and come out $1000 (18%) and 50 points ahead. We can dream up any scenario to prove our point.

The intelligent consumer will look carefully at all available real options, understand what they are and are not, and make the choice that fits their family best.

 

[gkrykewy]

Yeah, and I can buy a resale on August 1 and get 50 banked points for $4600 including closing costs and come out $1000 (18%) and 50 points ahead. We can dream up any scenario to prove our point

But you're the one who just said it's difficult to find suitable small contracts via resale -- now you're conjuring one with banked points at a steep discount!

Your scenario is a "dream"; mine occurs once a year for every member (and was, in fact, the circumstance in which we found ourselves last year when we added on direct).

 

[BeesKnees]

Most posters seems to be making assumptions that DVCers are punters who are able to vacation every year. Whilst this may (or may not) be correct, there are a lot of people like myself who for varying reasons are unable to take advantage of their points EVERY year, so we save up for a 2 or 3 yearly vacation. Me, because I live in Australia, and am unable (as much as I'd like) to visit every year. So for us with our contract (100 points at AKL), every 2-3 years allows us to accumulate points and have a 7-10 day holiday at the world bi or triannually.
Those buying in at a 50 point level would have 150 points every three years thereby allowing 2 weeks in a studio at AKL or 13 nights at OKW (albeit during low season). Perfect to a great deal of punters who for varying reasons are unable (or unwilling) to take on 100 points +.

People should not feel like "outsiders" because they choose to buy in at 50 points. Unfortunately there seems to be an unhealthy degree of pomposity starting to rear it's head more and more regularly on various disboards discussions.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but it's a sad fact.

I don't think anyone is afraid of the 50 pt vacationer that only shows up every couple of year. I am not even sure why anyone would care if they get the same discounts. If someone buys a contract for 50 points and uses their membership to get a cheaper annual pass they are most likely the ones getting cheated because they can't use their AP enough.

I have no idea if the average DVC member is represented here. There seems to be a lot of people who own 500+ points and are able to afford to go all the time with seemingly unrestricted amount of vacation time. My wife and I make decent money and going to Disney twice a year is not a burden. These people that can vacation for 2 weeks at a time though are living the good life because between my business and her job the longer we are away the more we have to work on vacation so it is diminishing returns. In a 7 day stay we both lose at least a half a day working as it is. I can't tell you how annoying it is to stop what you are doing and be forced to return to the room to do work.

I know many people who can afford the $4000ish we spend on our two trips each year but I know many more who can't. Maybe those that can't feel uncomfortable posting with those of who can, I dunno. Maybe most DVC members can easily afford to make at least a single trip each year, there again, I dunno. I have no idea what the demographics are of the average DVC member or the demographics of the average DVC Disboarder.

I certainly understand why someone down under would come less. That is a long plane ride so staying longer to offset it makes perfect sense to me.


I think the fear is that the 50 pointer could increase the number of owners so dramatically that the value of our contracts drop because we have to fight more and more to get the resorts, rooms, and views we want. I think it is a fair concern. It has certainly gotten harder over the years with all the construction they have done.

 

[Bell30012]

I'm actually excited about purchasing 50 points. That is the perfect amount for me and my DD7 at this time in our lives. We will take one 5 night vacation each year and then do several "weekenders". The 5 night we will stay in DVC and enjoy the deluxe resort accommodations, then the weekenders we will stay in a MODERATE paying cash.

The additional perks of being an owner are just extra pluses to us. (i.e.; Pool Hopping Privileges; Discounted AP; etc) Later when my daughter is older and wants to bring friends with us or if I should fall for some lady that loves WDW as much as we do... We may need more points but 50 is the perfect level for us.

 

[gkrykewy]

I'm actually excited about purchasing 50 points. That is the perfect amount for me and my DD7 at this time in our lives. We will take one 5 night vacation each year and then do several "weekenders". The 5 night we will stay in DVC and enjoy the deluxe resort accommodations, then the weekenders we will stay in a MODERATE paying cash.

The additional perks of being an owner are just extra pluses to us. (i.e.; Pool Hopping Privileges; Discounted AP; etc) Later when my daughter is older and wants to bring friends with us or if I should fall for some lady that loves WDW as much as we do... We may need more points but 50 is the perfect level for us.

Sounds like a reasonable approach, particularly if you buy AKV and can reserve value studios at 11 months. At other resorts, 50 points may not take you very far, but in an AKV value studio they'll get you 5 nights (sun-thurs) during three of the five booking seasons. If DVC continues the trend of equalizing weekend and weeknight stays, however, that could change.

 

[Bell30012]

Exactly what we had in mind. AKV would be my first choice but BV and OKW would all work as well. A few years from now, I'd love to be at BLT, that's because I'll be too old (pronounced LAZY) to want to deal with transportation from anything but a monorail resort.

 

[MrShiny]

Yes, but that $5k plus dues allows those nights for the life of the deed. Compare that to the prices of lodging, which still seem to rise even in this economy. And chances are it could be resold in a few years at a similar price.

I bet there are those who bought early into DVC and have sold their deeds at a profit - essenctially giving them stays for the cost of fees (less the profit).

Basically, if would stay at a deluxe resort every few years anyway for at least the next 10-20 years, it's probably worth it.

I'm posting this more for my own benefit than for anyone else ...

Dear bwvBound,

50 points will cost you ~$5000 if purchased direct from DVD and will get you only one weekend each year in a Grand Californian studio. That is two nights a year (Fri/Sat), in the Adventure and Choice seasons, for $5k upfront and ~$250/year in dues. Yes, the travel dates are limited -- 50 points is not enough to secure a studio weekend during Magic and Premier seasons.

Compare: You are staying tonight in a nearby 2BR unit for only $55 on Bonus Time for the D23 event. (Heart: bbbbbbut, but this is mid-week and the resort isn't the Grand Californian!) Oh, right -- weekends at the same nearby resort are still ~$110 for the same size, you've been rather successful snagging smaller units .... and while not the Grand, it is within walking distance.

(Heart: pouting)
What? You still want more DVC points? Silly, bwvBound! $5k upfront? Are you kidding? For two nights a year + dues? Think what that $5k could buy for the house! You really don't need any more timeshare but even if you did, consider more points with your other club or maybe DVC resale. Whatever you do, keep your eyes off the threads about Aulani. Don't even go there!


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Folks -- if you see me considering an add-on, would you kindly point me back to my post here? I'd be ever so grateful. Thank you!

 

[JimMIA]

But you're the one who just said it's difficult to find suitable small contracts via resale -- now you're conjuring one with banked points at a steep discount!

Your scenario is a "dream"; mine occurs once a year for every member (and was, in fact, the circumstance in which we found ourselves last year when we added on direct).

I was just pointing out that it is possible to structure a hypothetical deal to "prove" whatever you want. There is no question that there are situations where buying direct is better -- I've bought one of those deals, and you feel you've bought one.

My main point is that people should carefully research facts, rather than just relying on some timeshare salesman trying to sell them something -- and then do whatever is best for them.

 

[gkrykewy]

My main point is that people should carefully research facts, rather than just relying on some timeshare salesman trying to sell them something -- and then do whatever is best for them.

I agree completely; my main point is just that prior/tail-end-of year points, while an entitlement, have real value in the context of a purchase decision (particularly in the timing of a purchase) and are not entirely salesperson snake oil as you've been suggesting in multiple threads.

 

[JimMIA]

I agree completely; my main point is just that prior/tail-end-of year points, while an entitlement, have real value in the context of a purchase decision (particularly in the timing of a purchase) and are not entirely salesperson snake oil as you've been suggesting in multiple threads.

Just keep in mind that you could accomplish the same thing for $500 by having another owner transfer 50 points into your account for $10 pp.

 

[GrazingGoat1966]

Just keep in mind that you could accomplish the same thing for $500 by having another owner transfer 50 points into your account for $10 pp.

Get a bit expensive doing it every year for half a century though!

 

[gjw007]

Disney's selling 50 point contracts to new purchasers borders on fraud unless the guide specifically explains that Disney has reserved the right to change the current minimum one-night stay to up to 5 nights so that such a purchaser knows he could be blocked out from reserving at all (e.g., at BLT, it is impossible to get five nights in a row at any room for 50 points).

I don't believe that Disney can do that without risking a very serious lose in court and in public opinion. It would, in effect, be selling a defective product and it would hard to explain to a judge that they sold a product that has no chance of every being used. I don't see Disney implementing a 5-night stay requirement as it also affects those who like to stay 2-nights on weekends.