4 year old died on Mission Space today?

[crusader]

Scoop:

I don't know any 4 yr olds on the gravitron in my area.

44" is not the average height for age 4, but these stats are continually growing. Right now the average is 40-42" so I'm guessing this age group is not typically permitted on this attraction.

My instincts are telling me one thing - a child that age is too young for this level of g's but it'll never prove out in the scientific community. Any coaster enthusiast will understand my point.

I've been trying to determine how the testing played into this. I doubt that's the issue. It's the standards.

So my question is: Did Disney and the ASTM get together on this one?

I believe they had to have at a minimum started there, and incorporated even more conclusive data from the space community.

Here's what Disney has typically done with respect to g's in the past -

http://www.designnews.com/article/CA268967.html

and for those unfamiliar - here's some info on ASTM
http://www.biausa.org/Pages/blue_final_report.html#relevant

 

[airlarry!]

Scoopy, not to disparage your link, but I read the guy's description. Is this for real? There's nothing but his assertion that the ride is 4Gs, and he says it lasts for no more than 80 seconds.

You're telling me Disney spent all of that money on a ride system that provided less Gs than your average off the shelf Gravitron? I hope this doesn't come out the wrong way, but color me skeptical regarding this guy's knowledge.

And as usual, when DB researches the issue and proves me wrong, I'll eat crow.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Scoopy, not to disparage your link, but I read the guy's description. Is this for real? There's nothing but his assertion that the ride is 4Gs, and he says it lasts for no more than 80 seconds.

You're telling me Disney spent all of that money on a ride system that provided less Gs than your average off the shelf Gravitron? I hope this doesn't come out the wrong way, but color me skeptical regarding this guy's knowledge.

And as usual, when DB researches the issue and proves me wrong, I'll eat crow.

Trust me. Mission:Space does not pull 4Gs for 80 seconds. You are approacing, if not reaching fighter pilot numbers there.

Gs work on a sliding scale between intensity and duration. The human body can handle 10 Gs for a second, or three Gs for much longer. Although I don't have the charts in front of me, I would bet 2Gs could be sustained almost indefinetely.

MG

 

[NMW]

The little boy is from Bucks county PA. The story and the family are on our local news (Philadelphia). Very sad. Family claims no pre-existing medical condition of any kind.
My just turned 5 year old went on the ride in 2003, I know for myself, I thought that if he made the height req. it must be safe.

Feel so sorry for the family.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it entirely on the unsubstantiated allegations of one party to a lawsuit.

Not so. The unsubstantiated allegations were that the ride was unsafe.

But there was never any question that Disney stiffed ETC on about $9 million of the contracted price. Disney's own defense in the case is that they don't owe the money because they sent ETC home and completed the ride and did the safety testing themselves.

Indeed, in several of the articles produced by a Google search of "lawsuit etc disney mission space," Disney's spokesfolks go out of their way to point out that the ride passed all of Disney's own safety tests in their effort to paint ETC as alarmists crying "safety issue" where none existed.

 

[YoHo]

I wonder if anyone has done a measure of the results of 4 minutes of Sustained 2gs on the average 4 year old physiology? I don't think anyone doubted that the Average Adult can handle these things, the concern is for children. Growning bodies etc.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I wonder if anyone has done a measure of the results of 4 minutes of Sustained 2gs on the average 4 year old physiology? I don't think anyone doubted that the Average Adult can handle these things, the concern is for children. Growning bodies etc.

But it's not 4 minutes of 2 Gs. The G force only last a matter of seconds, then it's relieved. The G force then returns later for another few seconds. This is much different than "sustained Gs".

MG

 

[Bandman3X]

MG, go find your charts.

I don't know that 2G's would affect a 4 yr old more adversely. They are at a stage of their developement when they are extremely flexible. Heck, kids that age fall down & bounce back up totally unhurt. I figure the G's would affect an old guy like me moreso then them.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

MG, go find your charts.

I don't know that 2G's would affect a 4 yr old more adversely. They are at a stage of their developement when they are extremely flexible. Heck, kids that age fall down & bounce back up totally unhurt. I figure the G's would affect an old guy like me moreso then them.

Without consulting the charts, I would bet you are right on the money!

MG

 

[YoHo]

Accept that young children's bodies are more pliable. The reason they bounce back so easily, but that pliability makes things like Briancases more susceptable to damage. perhaps the young heart muscles or circulation system was not reasonably able to handle the increased pressure.

 

[Saratoga Souris]

I even saw the news here in Canada. A 4 yr old died on Mission Space. The cause of death is not known.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I'm no doctor, but I am a 10,000 hour profesional pilot with some G experience (no, not like a fighter pilot).

That being said, M:S sure dooesn't seem lethal to me.


Just my opinion...

MG

 

[YoHo]

But you admittedly aren't a Dr. and you certainly had not logged 10,000 hours and some G experience as a 4 year old. With a 4 year old's body.

MG, I'm really not discounting the information your bringing to the table. I just don't see how it tells any kind of complete story.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Chad,

Thanks for finding the quote that confirms much of what I said.

Interestingly, the quote you pulled from The Orlando Business Journal is an incomplete quote from the original source, The Philadelphia Business Journal, which states:

As for the safety testing, Spelich said, Mission: Space has "successfully passed all of Disney's state-of-the-art safety procedures as well as reviews by leading independent experts. ETC's attempt to play the safety card...."

There is no doubt Disney has claimed, as part of their response to the lawsuit, that they did the safety testing themselves.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

But you admittedly aren't a Dr. and you certainly had not logged 10,000 hours and some G experience as a 4 year old. With a 4 year old's body.

MG, I'm really not discounting the information your bringing to the table. I just don't see how it tells any kind of complete story.

All true, however over the last 20+ years of continuous training, I've never been advised to do anything different because a 4 year old was on board. Please, don't get me wrong, we try to make every flight as comfortable as posssible for every passenger. Pulling excessive Gs is a no-no, but only from a comfort standpoint-- Certainly not lethal.

MG

 

[Reginak]

My four year old son rode MS last week and he was fine with no motion sickness or problems whatsoever; in fact, it was his one of his favorite rides. He will turn five in August and is 45 inches tall. I did stress repeatedly that he stare directly at the screen during the ride and follow all directions carefully. I bet that there was some preexisting condition that the family did not know and that the ride aggravated it.
Regardless of how it happened; I wish that no one had to go through something like this.
Regina

 

[Mr D]

This is the second child to die from side effects of Mission Space, thats unless S. Americans don't count...

Why does not Disney care to have trained medical personnell in the immediate area? Like within 30 seconds transit, with O2 and a defib?

I will most likely never risk my kids health on this ride, sorry Disney, you lose again!

 

[Luv2Roam]

Second child?? News to me.

Is it just because it is not Disney we are not discussing (from Fox 35):
Kentucky boy drowns in Florida resort pool
(06.14.05) ? ORLANDO (AP) -- Orange County officials say a 10-year-old boy vacationing with family drowned in a crowded resort pool. Sheriff's spokeswoman Crystal Candy says that Cody Devers of Kentucky was found yesterday afternoon floating unconscious beneath an inflatable raft at Sheraton's Vistana Resort. The pool was roughly five feet deep where the boy was found and there was no lifeguard on duty. Officials say a paramedic vacationing from Texas performed C-P-R until rescue workers arrived. Cody was pronounced dead at the hospital. He was visiting the Orlando area with his aunt and uncle. A spokesman says none of the pools at the 15-hundred-unit resort are manned by lifeguards.

NO lifeguards?

And look at it this way --
Which is less dangerous for a child?:
Neverland Ranch
M:S


M:S!!!

The news just showed a tape from a local FL doctor, who of course also rode M:S.
Basically as with any ride, a parent should be aware of any health problems, yada, yada, yada. Heart problems and M:S can potentially kill someone.

Sadly this tragedy may actually make people read and heed the warnings for ANY ride and take the warnings more seriously.

 

[crusader]

ReginaK you could be right.

The news reports here are saying the "preliminary" autopsy is inconclusive. I don't know how much of what's being reported is accurate, but the broadcast went on to say that the mother apparently noticed her son tense up and held his hand for reassurance during the ride but he fell lifeless at the end.

I'm with Yoho. There's an ongoing debate with respect to the amusement park industry and child safety requirements. The truth is: there's not enough out there to adequately prove or disprove the g-force theories on kids.

Look I know as an adult, that certain g's will affect us at varying degrees. For example, the final helix on Nitro at six-flags Great Adventure almost caused my sister to pass out next to me, yet I felt fine.

That's the problem. Given that M:S caps at 3.5 I believe, how much is too much when you take that and apply it to a preschooler?

Rep. Markey re-introduced a bill last month to allow the Consumer Product Safety Division regulatory authority over this industry. He's been battling for this since 2002. No doubt this tragedy will aid in mandating a reform.

 

[Luv2Roam]

it is hard to find that fine line where rides and attractions (anywhere) can satisfy the consumer craving for thrill and be safe for EVERYONE.
Good example -- we probably all are read about the barely spinning teacups at DL.
One person gets hurt, even though millions ride it each year with no ill effects. The ride then becomes boring and everyone complains.
Not saying Consumer Product Safety Division, or theme park rides in general should not be regulated, but often we see a knee jerk reaction.

Article (and link):
http://www.rideaccidents.com/safety.html
Stay Safe: Amusement Ride Safety and Accident Statistics

Riding an amusement ride is one of the safest recreational activities. The National Consumer Product Safety Commission estimates that over 270 million people visit American amusement parks each year. An average of 7,000 of these people are treated in emergency rooms for injuries they sustained in amusement ride accidents. Considering the thousands of amusement rides that occupy American theme parks and the number of cycles each one completes without incident, this number is truly phenomenal. More amazing is the fact that the number of deaths that have occurred over the last twenty-five years is less than half of this number.

Because the leading cause of accidents is rider misconduct, these numbers could be reduced even further if people's awareness of ride safety was heightened. Here are some guidelines that will help to ensure a safe day at the park:

Another point about any ride and children: We often have seen parents use ruses to get their child tall enough to be on a ride. (paper lifts in shoes, stretching...) Now I wonder if maybe the height requirements may be taken more seriously. The CMs do, from what I have seen.

READ WARNING SIGNS
All major rides have some kind of age, weight, or height restriction. Upon entering the park or boarding a ride, you will see restriction and/or warning signs -- do not ignore them. Usually, children under a certain height or age cannot ride without a parent. In some cases, people with certain medical conditions are warned not to ride. In any case, be aware of restrictions and heed warnings.