3rd Park Gate?

[DINOSAUR-ASTERIOD25]

What about one more in the future? It's possible. Plenty of ideas to choose from.

 

[DancingBear]

Well, there are four parks now.

 

[sc9500]

Shhhhhhhh....... youre gonna make them crowded.....

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Let's see... There are currently 2 gates in Tokyo, 2 gates in Anaheim, 2 gates in Paris, and 4 gates is Orlando -- and there will soon be 1 gate in Hong Kong.

So the question could apply to 3 Disney complexes today.

 

[DINOSAUR-ASTERIOD25]

So is it still possible for it to come? I mean it's not out of the question is it? "Villain Park would be just awesome",would'nt it????

 

[WDWHound]

So is it still possible for it to come? I mean it's not out of the question is it? "Villain Park would be just awesome",would'nt it????

I like your enthusiasm, but the fact is that Epcot and AK need to have their problems fixed first. Epcot is getting better, but still has an attendance problem. Hopefully Soarin will contiunue the improvement on this that began with MS. AK desperately needs new attractions. Everest is a good start, but the park will need at least 2 more. Also, it has been forever since MK got a new e-ticket.

Then theres that gaping maw of boredom on the west coast known as DCA (Disneys Califonia Abomination). That needs so much help, it will take at least a decade to fix. Add to that Disney Studios Paris and the the current mistake in progess (Disneyland Hong kong), and I must come to the conclusion that Disney isn't going to build a new park at WDW anythime soon. All of their money is going to have to go into making their existing parks viable.

 

[DVCconvert]

Villain Park would be just awesome",would'nt it????

Yes, but one has to ask, just how many attrations featuring Michael Ei$ner can be made and still draw a crowd!

 

[sters]

Saw on another thread that plans are afoot to add another theme park and DVC near Aneheim. If that is the case, it would seem unlikely that a 5th theme park would be added in Orlando anytime soon.

 

[FANTASMIC!]

Yes, but one has to ask, just how many attrations featuring Michael Ei$ner can be made and still draw a crowd!

Why does everyone say Micheal is a villian , I think he's the reason WDW is the way it is today.

 

[NandP]

Let's see... There are currently 2 gates in Tokyo, 2 gates in Anaheim, 2 gates in Paris, and 4 gates is Orlando -- and there will soon be 1 gate in Hong Kong.

So the question could apply to 3 Disney complexes today.

Aren't there actually 5 in WDW.. Epcot has 2 gates (International Gateway)... and you didn't include the 2 water parks.

 

[mitros]

That was true about Ei$ner back in the mid 80's when he was bought in to save Disney. Over the years though, he has only been looking out for himself and NOT the guests. There is a huge thread somewhere on these boards that goes into detail about the subject. Also, tool around www.savedisney.com for other detailed info.

 

[mrsR123]

Why does everyone say Micheal is a villian , I think he's the reason WDW is the way it is today.

Yes, but your implication is that it's a good thing. Many spend considerable time contemplating just how much better they ought to be and might have been if not for ME's decisions.

 

[FANTASMIC!]

That was true about Ei$ner back in the mid 80's when he was bought in to save Disney. Over the years though, he has only been looking out for himself and NOT the guests. There is a huge thread somewhere on these boards that goes into detail about the subject. Also, tool around www.savedisney.com for other detailed info.

I see thank you!

 

[pugdog]

when we went on a behind the sceens tour in december we were told that there are plans for 2 more parks in florida, and they had the money to do it. but that they wanted to put the money into Epcot and AK for right now to beef them up before adding anymore parks.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

when we went on a behind the sceens tour in december we were told that there are plans for 2 more parks in florida, and they had the money to do it.

Were these full "theme" parks or smaller event parks (water park, race track, etc.)? Notably, the 10-year projection by Reedy Creek prepared in 1997 for 1998-2008 (it really is an interesting read) did mention there was enough buildable land available at WDW to build two more full-scale theme parks but there was no projection to start them in that 10-year period. It did, however, project the building of the two water parks which was completed in the first five years.

Unfortunately, though not too surprising, there is not much contiguous buildable land available of any decent size at WDW except for a large triangular patch bounded by 192, I4, and Reedy Creek. It's definitely large enough for two parks side-by-side, but am hoping the powers-that-be come to their senses and really do finish off AK and the Studios before starting another half-developed park.

-R

P.S., the report also noted an additional 4500 lodging rooms would be built in the second half of that time period (2003 - 2008) but have yet to see that magnitude of building being started down there. The first projected 4500 rooms were finished when CBR and the All-Stars were completed, but the second 4500 I don't see them as having a place to put them now that they've leased out one of the few remaining tracts of land for the Bonnet Creek Resort. But then again the report was developed pre-9/11 when they were projecting a healthy growth every year.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I don't see them as having a place to put them now that they've leased out one of the few remaining tracts of land for the Bonnet Creek Resort.

Disney did not lease out the land to the Bonnet Creek Resort. Disney never owned that site, although it is bordered on three sides by Disney Property.

The Bonnet Creek Resort is on non-Disney propert near Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort. The Fairfield Orlando at Bonnet Creek Resort is the first of several lodging properties that will eventually be built within the Bonnet Creek Resort.

There is plenty of Disney property for all sorts of additional development. It's a huge tract of land, and the majority is undeveloped. But Disney won't sink capital into more theme parks, hotels, or other improvements until there is a strong business case that doing so would be a profitable (and would not just steal business from what's already there).

 

[Lord Fantasius]

There is plenty of Disney property for all sorts of additional development. It's a huge tract of land, and the majority is undeveloped.

27,000 acres = WDW
12,000 acres developed
8,000 acres protected marshland
4,000 acres unprotected marshland
3,000 acres undeveloped surface land (of which only 1000 acres are contiguous)

Notably, the difference between protected marshland and unprotected marshland is merely Disney requesting a waiver from the federal government for development, but the fact remains that almost half of all the land at WDW is marsh and quite a bit more expensive to build on than surface ground. The location of the theme parks were not entirely random; as an example, a look at any topography map would show why the AKL was set were it was so far away from the AK.

So yes, WDW does have alot of land left, but not nearly as much as it would appear to build on. And to build another 4500 rooms, we're talking a couple of resorts the size of All-stars and CBR combined. Umm...I knew the boundary line for Disney property was close to where the Bonnet Creek was located just didn't have a detailed current enough of map.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

27,000 acres = WDW
12,000 acres developed
8,000 acres protected marshland
4,000 acres unprotected marshland
3,000 acres undeveloped surface land (of which only 1000 acres are contiguous)

I won't challenge those numbers (although I would be curious where they came from) because I don't have better numbers.

Take a look at http://www.wdwmagic.com/master.htm for an old WDW master plan. There are still sizable developement sites at WDW.

Also, consider the lack intensity of how most land has been developed so far -- if you compare WDW to Universal Orlando or the Disneyland Resort in California. If WDW really didn't have any undeveloped, buildable land, they could easily put an additional theme park and parking structures in the Epcot, AK, and MK parking lots. But WDW still has large tracts of undeveloped, buildable land.

A theme park only requires a few hundred acres.

The reason that there is not a new theme park currently under construction is not because of a lack of a suitable site. It's because there's not a business case that spending a billion dollars or so (and taking on the overhead costs and operating costs of another park) will provide a suitable return on investment. Perhaps that will change one day. If so, there's plenty of land.

 

[Lord Fantasius]

I won't challenge those numbers (although I would be curious where they came from) because I don't have better numbers.

Reedy Creek Development Corp. 10-year 2008 Comprehensive plan (developed in 1998)

Land Use - Acreage (Percent of Total)
Residential - 11 (0.0+)
Commercial - 244 (1.0)
Hotel/Resort - 3,059 (12.3)
Entertainment - 2,237 (9.0)
Support Facilities - 689 (2.8)
Public Facilities/Roads - 2,432 (9.8)
Roads (inc. above) - 1,565 (6.3)
Other Public Facilities (inc. above) - 867 (3.5)
Agriculture - 1,012 (4.0)
Undeveloped Open Space - 6,096 (24.4)
Resource Management/Recreation (inc. above) -3,558 (14.3)
Vacant Land (inc. above) - 2,538 (10.1)
Conservation - 7,617 (30.6)
Water - 1,527 (6.1)
TOTAL - 24,924 (100.0)
Source: RCID, 1999

If you would like more information, the link to Reedy Creek's homesite is www.rcid.org, and if you click on the 2008 Comprehensive Plan tab, this table is located within the Future Land Use section of the report.

Admittedly, my previous no's were very approximate and general since I was doing it from memory; however, it should be noted that this is pre-CBR, All-Stars or AKL. Ergo, since the total land used by these three resorts is approximately 1,000 acres it reduces the Vacant Land amount to a little over 1500 acres left for building. Yes, a good sized portion and definitely large enough for a major theme park and a couple more resorts, or two more major theme parks, or a combination of them, but unless Disney wants to start putting major money into developing wetlands/marshes, the days of major construction in Orlando are numbered.

...they could easily put an additional theme park and parking structures in the Epcot, AK, and MK parking lots.

So...where would people park that come to visit that pay for these parks? Disney resorts can only accomodate about a quarter of all four parks' capacity.

But I agree, HH, the reason even these acres haven't been developed yet is due to the Cost/Return analysis Disney likes to over pay bean-counters to produce before they step out on any project these days...'tis a pity, really! But also agree, they really do need to finish off the two half-developed parks they have now before creating a fifth...

-R

 

[DancingBear]

Reedy Creek Development Corp. 10-year 2008 Comprehensive plan (developed in 1998)

Oh, come on. I know for a fact (because the Element told me so) that there is no plan.

And the bean counters didn't just show up recently when it comes to deciding whether to build. See Buzz Price's book "Walt's Revolution by the Numbers", in which he concludes that Walt was secretly a numbers man.