CaliforniaGirl09
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 4,064
Here's the last part--Estonia and my thoughts on ABD
Tallinn—We had another early morning for this short (5 hour) port time. We visited another Catherine’s Palace, which was smaller and not so gold
It was nice to see and the guided tour was short (yay!), but I suspect it was on the list because there wasn’t much else to do there. It was a Sunday, and the palace opened early to accommodate us, which was nice. I think ABD was the only tour there, which was a nice perk.
After the palace, we did a walking tour of the old town, which was a pretty medieval city, and then had some on your own time for shopping before having some actors in period costumes play some games with the kids, engage in great sword fight, and let us climb the tower in the wall. It was cute, and the kids really seemed to have fun, but would have been much better as a break in a longer day. After 20 or so days on the ship, I would much rather have had lunch, LOL! They said there wasn’t enough time, but I think we could have fit something in (maybe skipping part of the walking tour of the city, which wasn’t that interesting).
With little to see in Estonia other than the town, this would have been a great day for something more active (Helsinki was another day) rather than a visit to a secondary palace. There was *nothing* active about this “adventure” at all. Indeed the pace of the tour was sometimes painfully slow and by the end was driving me nuts. I couldn’t help thinking every time our Russian guide kept calling us “Dear Adventurers” in her very cute accent that made the “v” sound like a “w” that she was talking to the wrong group! Unlike the land-based itineraries, there was no option to do anything active like bike ride, hike, kayak, raft, horseback riding, etc. After the activity of the first cruise, it felt like we came to a huge halt with ABD.
Bottom line: The half-day in Estonia was fine, but underwhelming, especially when I think that it cost my family of 4 almost $2000 for that one day. Wow, pretty staggering. Makes me feel a little ill actually
IMO Estonia was a huge lost opportunity to do something more active and/or let us have some decent food.
Summary of ABD add-on: We had a great time, but I think my expectations were skewed by the fabulous land based ABDs that we have done, which I thought were a great value despite the high cost. I definitely didn’t feel that way about the add-on. $3349 per person for what was essentially a series of coach/city/walking tours with some nice lunches is making ABD a lot of money. Compared to land based ABDs where the top notch hotels and more meals are included (as well as much more premium activities), the profit margin on this trip must be enormous. We could have done a bunch of the “exclusive” DCL port adventures, and private tours and had a much better experience in smaller groups. In fact we did exactly that on the first cruise.
My mistake was assuming that there would be more surprises, special touches, and unique experiences like I’m used to on the land-based tours. This was not the case. What was in the itinerary was exactly what we did. At the very least, I thought I’d be paying for a more intimate experience with a small group and the “first off last on” maximizing the time in every port—neither of these were the case either. I’m still disappointed about returning to the ship 40 minutes early in Stockholm at the expense of more Vasa Museum time and returning over an hour early on the Berlin day without being given a chance to walk around any of the city (or even stop at the Holocaust memorial).
I had a really nice time with the group and really liked the people I did get a chance to talk to, but the initial disappointment from hearing the size of the group never lessened, and I think it had a big impact on my enjoyment of the trip overall. The pace was way too slow, our time was impacted by negotiating such a large group (taking family pictures took a long time, not to mention restroom lines, getting on and off the bus, etc.), and we definitely didn’t get to know people as well as we usually do. Dusty and James were fabulous—truly exceptional guides who I would *love* to have again on a smaller ABD—and did a wonderful job handling the cards they were dealt by Disney, but they were spread way to thin and there wasn’t enough time for that personal connection that we’ve had on other trips with the guides. They were also split up much of the time (when the group was split up) so we didn’t get the full benefit of their great chemistry together.
This is my opinion only. I fully get that other people may feel very differently, and I think there are some families who loved the add-on, putting a higher value on the camaraderie, not sweating the details, etc. I’ve been skeptical of cruise add-ons ever since Alaska, but it seemed a good time to try it out given the St. Petersburg factor and all the planning we had to do for first cruise. It was really nice not to have to plan for second cruise. Also, we might well have been shut out of some of those exclusive PAs since at the time of booking I wasn’t yet platinum.
My friend made a great observation that might explain the discrepancy in experiences. The land based ABDs and add-on ABDs are probably targeting different customers. The cruise population as a whole is different than the land based ABD families (which is branded as adventure travel), and might have different expectations about the pace, activity level, and what they want to see. I would have loved to go kayaking in Copenhagen or horseback riding in Helsinki, but maybe that wouldn’t appeal to the typical cruise traveler who wants to see as many top sites as possible. One idea I had (especially if they continue with these large groups) is setting up two tracks of activities like they are doing next year on the River Cruises. There could be the city tour/museum/palace, etc. track and the more active track with hikes, riding, biking, etc.
But I suspect there won’t be any more ABD cruise add-ons for me. They would have to go back to a reasonable number of people (35?) and the itinerary would have to be much more varied. The value just isn’t there for my family, and big group touring isn’t the way we like to travel.
I have been a huge ABD proponent in the past—encouraging friends and family to try them out—but I’m beginning to feel as if they are maximizing profits at the expense of the product. With a few dubious policy changes (refusing to guarantee trips, expanding group size without notice), and eroding trip itineraries (removing a key day from Scotland and not reducing the price), I don’t feel comfortable giving them a flat recommendation anymore. There are other companies out there with much better policies (Thompson, Nat Geo, etc). If I did mention ABD to someone it would be with plenty of caveats about potentially huge groups sizes, possible last minute trip cancellations, and advice to study the itinerary *very* carefully. This is really sad, given how much I’ve loved our previous trips and how vocal I’ve been in passing on the ABD love.
We are currently booked on the river cruise for next year, and this trip has made me question whether it will be right for my family. I keep going back and forth, but the itinerary definitely seems to have more choices and being on the DVC inaugural definitely has a draw. If we do go, I’m really hoping to have a better ABD experience. I have a few land based ABDs in my future plans (China and Norway), but I will definitely be proceeding carefully and looking at other options.
As far as the cruise add-on products go, if you want to see the top sites in every city, have someone take care of all the planning and the details, and you don’t mind a huge group and slower pace, it may still be right for you. But if you are looking for a special/VIP experience and smaller groups, I’d go concierge and spend all that onboard credit on signature/exclusive Port Adventures or a private tour guide.
ABD is usually a premium product, but on DCL I don’t think they have the power to negotiate the premium experiences. Those go to the DCL exclusives and concierge guests. [Aside: there seems to be an uneasy relationship between DCL and ABD. I get the feeling DCL tolerates them but that’s about it]. For example, in line for dinner one night I was talking to the lady in front of me who was raving about the ball at Catherine’s Palace (a signature/exclusive/very expensive DCL Port Adventure that we’d thought about doing if we didn’t do ABD). They had the entire palace to themselves (only two buses, which is what we had), costumed dancers, champagne, etc. They also were able to take pictures in the Amber Room (which we weren’t able to do on ABD). Also, our ABD group was too big to be able to do the other premium experiences like visiting the Gold Room at the Hermitage and the Faberge museum. When I asked about the Gold Room before we left, I was told we couldn’t do it because of some rules about tour guides. Yet there was a Disney PA that was able to do it, so I don’t get it. My guess is the group was too large and/or DCL had the negotiating power. http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/c...petersburg-russia/hermitage-museum-gold-room/
So that’s it. 23 days on the Magic and 10 countries. We had a great time, although I will be very glad to get back home to a palatable cup of coffee, a well cooked egg, Mexican food, and no more Cabanas. BTW, if you are wondering, we did manage to do 23 days on the ship with only using the elevator once: to walk off our luggage on the last day. Being on the second level was killer though--especially on sea days. I am also going to claim the record for curry eating on a ship—20 out of 23 days (missing only for the first night and 2 Palo dinners). I could probably add all-bran breakfasts to the record books as well. 23 out of 23 days. I don’t even really like all-bran that much, it was just the only healthy cereal they have.
If you have any questions, I’m happy to answer. I’ll add pictures soon…
Tallinn—We had another early morning for this short (5 hour) port time. We visited another Catherine’s Palace, which was smaller and not so gold
It was nice to see and the guided tour was short (yay!), but I suspect it was on the list because there wasn’t much else to do there. It was a Sunday, and the palace opened early to accommodate us, which was nice. I think ABD was the only tour there, which was a nice perk.After the palace, we did a walking tour of the old town, which was a pretty medieval city, and then had some on your own time for shopping before having some actors in period costumes play some games with the kids, engage in great sword fight, and let us climb the tower in the wall. It was cute, and the kids really seemed to have fun, but would have been much better as a break in a longer day. After 20 or so days on the ship, I would much rather have had lunch, LOL! They said there wasn’t enough time, but I think we could have fit something in (maybe skipping part of the walking tour of the city, which wasn’t that interesting).
With little to see in Estonia other than the town, this would have been a great day for something more active (Helsinki was another day) rather than a visit to a secondary palace. There was *nothing* active about this “adventure” at all. Indeed the pace of the tour was sometimes painfully slow and by the end was driving me nuts. I couldn’t help thinking every time our Russian guide kept calling us “Dear Adventurers” in her very cute accent that made the “v” sound like a “w” that she was talking to the wrong group! Unlike the land-based itineraries, there was no option to do anything active like bike ride, hike, kayak, raft, horseback riding, etc. After the activity of the first cruise, it felt like we came to a huge halt with ABD.
Bottom line: The half-day in Estonia was fine, but underwhelming, especially when I think that it cost my family of 4 almost $2000 for that one day. Wow, pretty staggering. Makes me feel a little ill actually
IMO Estonia was a huge lost opportunity to do something more active and/or let us have some decent food.Summary of ABD add-on: We had a great time, but I think my expectations were skewed by the fabulous land based ABDs that we have done, which I thought were a great value despite the high cost. I definitely didn’t feel that way about the add-on. $3349 per person for what was essentially a series of coach/city/walking tours with some nice lunches is making ABD a lot of money. Compared to land based ABDs where the top notch hotels and more meals are included (as well as much more premium activities), the profit margin on this trip must be enormous. We could have done a bunch of the “exclusive” DCL port adventures, and private tours and had a much better experience in smaller groups. In fact we did exactly that on the first cruise.
My mistake was assuming that there would be more surprises, special touches, and unique experiences like I’m used to on the land-based tours. This was not the case. What was in the itinerary was exactly what we did. At the very least, I thought I’d be paying for a more intimate experience with a small group and the “first off last on” maximizing the time in every port—neither of these were the case either. I’m still disappointed about returning to the ship 40 minutes early in Stockholm at the expense of more Vasa Museum time and returning over an hour early on the Berlin day without being given a chance to walk around any of the city (or even stop at the Holocaust memorial).
I had a really nice time with the group and really liked the people I did get a chance to talk to, but the initial disappointment from hearing the size of the group never lessened, and I think it had a big impact on my enjoyment of the trip overall. The pace was way too slow, our time was impacted by negotiating such a large group (taking family pictures took a long time, not to mention restroom lines, getting on and off the bus, etc.), and we definitely didn’t get to know people as well as we usually do. Dusty and James were fabulous—truly exceptional guides who I would *love* to have again on a smaller ABD—and did a wonderful job handling the cards they were dealt by Disney, but they were spread way to thin and there wasn’t enough time for that personal connection that we’ve had on other trips with the guides. They were also split up much of the time (when the group was split up) so we didn’t get the full benefit of their great chemistry together.
This is my opinion only. I fully get that other people may feel very differently, and I think there are some families who loved the add-on, putting a higher value on the camaraderie, not sweating the details, etc. I’ve been skeptical of cruise add-ons ever since Alaska, but it seemed a good time to try it out given the St. Petersburg factor and all the planning we had to do for first cruise. It was really nice not to have to plan for second cruise. Also, we might well have been shut out of some of those exclusive PAs since at the time of booking I wasn’t yet platinum.
My friend made a great observation that might explain the discrepancy in experiences. The land based ABDs and add-on ABDs are probably targeting different customers. The cruise population as a whole is different than the land based ABD families (which is branded as adventure travel), and might have different expectations about the pace, activity level, and what they want to see. I would have loved to go kayaking in Copenhagen or horseback riding in Helsinki, but maybe that wouldn’t appeal to the typical cruise traveler who wants to see as many top sites as possible. One idea I had (especially if they continue with these large groups) is setting up two tracks of activities like they are doing next year on the River Cruises. There could be the city tour/museum/palace, etc. track and the more active track with hikes, riding, biking, etc.
But I suspect there won’t be any more ABD cruise add-ons for me. They would have to go back to a reasonable number of people (35?) and the itinerary would have to be much more varied. The value just isn’t there for my family, and big group touring isn’t the way we like to travel.
I have been a huge ABD proponent in the past—encouraging friends and family to try them out—but I’m beginning to feel as if they are maximizing profits at the expense of the product. With a few dubious policy changes (refusing to guarantee trips, expanding group size without notice), and eroding trip itineraries (removing a key day from Scotland and not reducing the price), I don’t feel comfortable giving them a flat recommendation anymore. There are other companies out there with much better policies (Thompson, Nat Geo, etc). If I did mention ABD to someone it would be with plenty of caveats about potentially huge groups sizes, possible last minute trip cancellations, and advice to study the itinerary *very* carefully. This is really sad, given how much I’ve loved our previous trips and how vocal I’ve been in passing on the ABD love.
We are currently booked on the river cruise for next year, and this trip has made me question whether it will be right for my family. I keep going back and forth, but the itinerary definitely seems to have more choices and being on the DVC inaugural definitely has a draw. If we do go, I’m really hoping to have a better ABD experience. I have a few land based ABDs in my future plans (China and Norway), but I will definitely be proceeding carefully and looking at other options.
As far as the cruise add-on products go, if you want to see the top sites in every city, have someone take care of all the planning and the details, and you don’t mind a huge group and slower pace, it may still be right for you. But if you are looking for a special/VIP experience and smaller groups, I’d go concierge and spend all that onboard credit on signature/exclusive Port Adventures or a private tour guide.
ABD is usually a premium product, but on DCL I don’t think they have the power to negotiate the premium experiences. Those go to the DCL exclusives and concierge guests. [Aside: there seems to be an uneasy relationship between DCL and ABD. I get the feeling DCL tolerates them but that’s about it]. For example, in line for dinner one night I was talking to the lady in front of me who was raving about the ball at Catherine’s Palace (a signature/exclusive/very expensive DCL Port Adventure that we’d thought about doing if we didn’t do ABD). They had the entire palace to themselves (only two buses, which is what we had), costumed dancers, champagne, etc. They also were able to take pictures in the Amber Room (which we weren’t able to do on ABD). Also, our ABD group was too big to be able to do the other premium experiences like visiting the Gold Room at the Hermitage and the Faberge museum. When I asked about the Gold Room before we left, I was told we couldn’t do it because of some rules about tour guides. Yet there was a Disney PA that was able to do it, so I don’t get it. My guess is the group was too large and/or DCL had the negotiating power. http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/c...petersburg-russia/hermitage-museum-gold-room/
So that’s it. 23 days on the Magic and 10 countries. We had a great time, although I will be very glad to get back home to a palatable cup of coffee, a well cooked egg, Mexican food, and no more Cabanas. BTW, if you are wondering, we did manage to do 23 days on the ship with only using the elevator once: to walk off our luggage on the last day. Being on the second level was killer though--especially on sea days. I am also going to claim the record for curry eating on a ship—20 out of 23 days (missing only for the first night and 2 Palo dinners). I could probably add all-bran breakfasts to the record books as well. 23 out of 23 days. I don’t even really like all-bran that much, it was just the only healthy cereal they have.
If you have any questions, I’m happy to answer. I’ll add pictures soon…
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for taking the time and effort to post!
