2025 Condo Meeting Information - Renting

[Brian Noble]

Regardless, unless resale owners are exchanging 20% of their points into II (which I sort of doubt),

A clarification: owners who exchange into II do not generate points for Disney to rent. Those points are used to book inventory that is made available to other Interval members for inbound exchanges. It is entirely possible that when DVC says "we rent out X% of the rooms" that it does not include II exchange volume. It depends on how they define "rent". If they mean "Used by someone other than the owner of those points" then it would qualify. If they mean "nights we rented to the general public" it would not.

 

[airjay75]

Maybe it's worth asking a couple people who were at the meeting.

@pkrieger2287 @Mouseforward

At the BWV meeting where renting as asked about, did you get the impression that the 20% (15% at BWV) figure that was put out referred to all DVC exchanges (including Interval International) or just exchanges where Disney is using those points to rent themselves? I had thought that figure was a reference to all DVC point exchanges, but maybe it only referred to exchanges where Disney is affirmatively taking those points and renting them directly.

If you have time, would love to hear what you thought at the meeting.

 

[muppets3d]

Yes but originally you said "comparable room".
If you are trading a studio but they are depositing a 1 bedroom into the II system that is not comparable in my eyes.
Are you talking about the II exchange being comparable? i.e. we receive a 1/2 bedroom through II and then that is why there is SSR/OKW 1 bedroom in II?

You aren't trading in a studio, you are trading in points. We aren't exchanging fixed weeks in a fixed villa type like a lot of timeshares. Comparable room is the wrong choice of words, since we aren't exchanging rooms. We are just exchanging points.

To be honest I don't know how II works with DVC. It's entirely possible and probably most likely that they do as you surmised. They just bundle up all the points that members exchange out within a given period of time (a month seems likely) and dump a comparable number of points worth of SSR/OKW 1 bedroom units into II.

 

[pkrieger2287]

Maybe it's worth asking a couple people who were at the meeting.

@pkrieger2287 @Mouseforward

At the BWV meeting where renting as asked about, did you get the impression that the 20% (15% at BWV) figure that was put out referred to all DVC exchanges (including Interval International) or just exchanges where Disney is using those points to rent themselves? I had thought that figure was a reference to all DVC point exchanges, but maybe it only referred to exchanges where Disney is affirmatively taking those points and renting them directly.

If you have time, would love to hear what you thought at the meeting.

I wouldn't be confident saying one way or the other... In looking back at my notes, I wrote down "choosing to use their points in other ways".

 

[eticketplease]

You aren't trading in a studio, you are trading in points. We aren't exchanging fixed weeks in a fixed villa type like a lot of timeshares. Comparable room is the wrong choice of words, since we aren't exchanging rooms. We are just exchanging points.

That makes sense. In my mind I was thinking x points for a week in a studio vs getting the 1 or 2 bedroom in II. I'm guessing those with a fixed one are treated the same way too as just points.

 

[Sandisw]

Just another thought that occurred to me thinking about the 20% of all DVC points are exchanged stat. Outside of Interval International, only direct/grandfathered points can be exchange for anything else. Of course, we don't know the true breakdown between direct and resale owners, and that probably varies by resort. I tend to think it is on the smaller side. Regardless, unless resale owners are exchanging 20% of their points into II (which I sort of doubt), that means the percentage of direct/grandfathered points being exchanged is actually higher than 20%. How much higher would depend on the ratio of direct to resale owners.

The thing is that I think the % of points at a resort that are eligible remains high.

Many of the resale contracts sold were already restricted so changing hands doesn’t change it.

This change happened in 2012…so any sold more than once since them won’t change that number.

It would be interested to have resort specific besides BWV!

 

[Sandisw]

Yes but originally you said "comparable room".
If you are trading a studio but they are depositing a 1 bedroom into the II system that is not comparable in my eyes.
Are you talking about the II exchange being comparable? i.e. we receive a 1/2 bedroom through II and then that is why there is SSR/OKW 1 bedroom in II?

The owners doesn’t exchange a room into II. You simply deposit the points and DVc choose what to deposit and when.

They can pull rooms from your home resort between 7 and 11 months, or wait and pull rooms at 7 months or less

That is why what one would find in II tends to be the ones that would not rent as easily for cash…and why we see a lot of 1 bedrooms at SSR and OKW.

 

[Brian Noble]

In most points-based mini-systems, the management company chooses what to deposit to the major exchanges to balance owners who confirm exchanges elsewhere. Nearly all of them wait to pick units until well into the "open season" window during which owners can book system-wide.

For example, Wyndham's window is 10 months, and they tended to deposit inventory about 7-8 months prior to check in. Most DVC inventory shows up around 5-6 months prior to check-in, give or take. This seems reasonable. It makes sense otherwise give owners in the system a little bit of priority over those staying via exchange, and I say that as someone who uses exchange A LOT, and not just at DVC.

The one glaring exception is the OG Hilton system, which bulk-banks about a year at a time, about 5-7 months (or longer) prior to the start of the year. Worse, Hilton owners cannot exchange back into their own resorts until their own Club Season opens. Presumably, Hilton chooses the inventory that will be less in-demand when the time comes, and that seems to be at least mostly true, but it does stick in the craw of more than one HGVC owner.

 

[Mouseforward]

Maybe it's worth asking a couple people who were at the meeting.

@pkrieger2287 @Mouseforward

At the BWV meeting where renting as asked about, did you get the impression that the 20% (15% at BWV) figure that was put out referred to all DVC exchanges (including Interval International) or just exchanges where Disney is using those points to rent themselves? I had thought that figure was a reference to all DVC point exchanges, but maybe it only referred to exchanges where Disney is affirmatively taking those points and renting them directly.

If you have time, would love to hear what you thought at the meeting.

Unclear , I assumed all exchanges including II as well.

What I can say is they smiled when I asked the question and it felt like they were expecting it.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Unclear , I assumed all exchanges including II as well.

What I can say is they smiled when I asked the question and it felt like they were expecting it.

Was the smile like this while they were thinking .. just wait til we hit them with “we are the biggest renters”

 

[Tatebeck]

I'm guess I'm just not sure why they were excited to share with us that they rent out so many points. Yes, they are allowed to and the points come from members trading in for cruises, ABD, etc. but if anything it still seems more like a negative point to me personally.

So you're telling us that on top of all of these fairly obvious commercial rentals being done by members, Disney themselves is also renting out around 20% of all points? (I'm not talking about rooms that were never booked and went into breakage though, that is not competing with members to book popular rooms)

The more renting being done (by anyone, even Disney themselves) increases booking competition because the number of actual owners/members trying to book and use a room will always be less than the number of owners/members looking to use them + all the prospective renters looking at rooms. Ex. 10,000 owners at a resort booking vs 10,000 owners and however many more thousands of renters looking as well.

To preserve member availability and happiness, I would be hopeful that Disney themselves isn't booking popular rooms at 11 months out just to rent or allowing cash renters to book DVC 11 months ahead with DVCs points and compete with owners in the home resort window, but if that is what makes them the most money... then they very well may be doing that.

Was anything else mentioned about their processes other than the percentage that they rent? I would be very curious

-----

Members: "Hey DVC, we don't like how much of these commercial rentals are out there and it is getting difficult to book popular times with our memberships"

DVC: "Don't worry, we also do a ton of commercial rentals! "

Members:

 

[Brian Noble]

The more renting being done (by anyone, even Disney themselves) increases booking competition because the number of actual owners/members trying to book and use a room will always be less than the number of owners/members looking to use them + all the prospective renters looking at rooms

Except that those rooms have to be booked with actual points, no matter who is staying in them, and the number of points are always in balance with the number of rooms. (Setting aside shenanigans with the point charts.)

Disney exchanges (DCL, ABD, etc.) are paid for by Members who give Disney points in exchange for the cruise/trip/etc. Disney uses those points to book rooms and rent them. Private renters are using their own points to book and rent out rooms. The room bookings aren't coming from thin air.

 

[Tatebeck]

Except that those rooms have to be booked with actual points, no matter who is staying in them, and the number of points are always in balance with the number of rooms. (Setting aside shenanigans with the point charts.)

Disney exchanges (DCL, ABD, etc.) are paid for by Members who give Disney points in exchange for the cruise/trip/etc. Disney uses those points to book rooms and rent them. Private renters are using their own points to book and rent out rooms. The room bookings aren't coming from thin air.

Of course the number of points owned balances with the point chart over the entire year, but that isn't what I am talking about. The points are NOT in balance every day. Some days/rooms are much harder to book than others and fully book instantly, some book up much later, and some do not book up and are used for breakage, II swaps, etc.

I am saying that commercial rentals can make some periods much more competitive than they would naturally be. One "member" (even if it is DVC) having around 20% of points up for rental to a very wide market can increase the number of eyeballs (and computer clicks) on popular rooms or popular times to visit.

I would argue that IMO 100,000 points split among 500 members having 200 points each on average booking for just themselves would have a very different booking spread than 1 (or a few) members having 100,000 points and booking rooms they think will make them the most money on the rental market. Do you think that the booking would be identical between those different groups? I definitely do not think that is the case.

Easy example: Not all 500 members would be wanting to book and specifically use a Resort view studio at BWV/BCV/CCV/etc. the first two weeks of December. But if a commercial renter with a ton of points could secure enough rooms to use all of their points there, they most likely gladly would take them because many thousands of people could be looking to rent them, not just the 500 owners with 200 points each.

ETA:I am not sure how DVC themselves are able to log in on the website and book rooms for rent, but I highly doubt it is limited to 1 login and person booking. I bet they could book quite a few rooms at once if they wished, competing with normal members and commercial renting members both.

 

[Sandisw]

Of course the number of points owned balances with the point chart over the entire year, but that isn't what I am talking about. The points are NOT in balance every day. Some days/rooms are much harder to book than others and fully book instantly, some book up much later, and some do not book up and are used for breakage, II swaps, etc.

I am saying that commercial rentals can make some periods much more competitive than they would naturally be. One "member" (even if it is DVC) having around 20% of points up for rental to a very wide market can increase the number of eyeballs (and computer clicks) on popular rooms or popular times to visit.

I would argue that IMO 100,000 points split among 500 members having 200 points each on average booking for just themselves would have a very different booking spread than 1 (or a few) members having 100,000 points and booking rooms they think will make them the most money on the rental market. Do you think that the booking would be identical between those different groups? I definitely do not think that is the case.

Easy example: Not all 500 members would be wanting to book and specifically use a Resort view studio at BWV/BCV/CCV/etc. the first two weeks of December. But if a commercial renter with a ton of points could secure enough rooms to use all of their points there, they most likely gladly would take them because many thousands of people could be looking to rent them, not just the 500 owners with 200 points each.

ETA:I am not sure how DVC themselves are able to log in on the website and book rooms for rent, but I highly doubt it is limited to 1 login and person booking. I bet they could book quite a few rooms at once if they wished, competing with normal members and commercial renting members both.

Of course DVC has abilities to take rooms 11 months in ways we don’t. They don’t have a membership…they just can’t remove them earlier than the rest of us.

Being the management company and the developer they get privileges we don’t. It’s just the way it is.

I took the the point to share that there is a large population of owners who are choosing to trade out of the system and that it’s large enough that it plays a big role in availability.

I do think it’s important that this is not DVC making those decisions, it’s owners.

And yes, large point owners will always have more rooms booked because they have more points and right now, contracts allow 8000 per owner.

What I can add, based on my own conversations and information, is that it’s always going to be about patterns they see in an account by owners. They know it when they see it.

The good news is that they have adjusted the point charts at AKV as a start. So hopefully that will have some impact down the road.

ETA: I get that the popularity of certain rooms for rentals makes it harder on an owner who isn’t booking to offer it for rent…and those owners who are booking in volumes that shifts them into the commercial arena certainly seem to capitalize on this.

But, I’d bet there is a good number of average owners who rent those same rooms who are not renting in a way that is commercial,,,just taking advantage of their right to rent and offering something that will be easy to rent.

And, no reports on how they take rooms from inventory.,, just that an average of 20% of points are used for exchanges.

DVC rooms do not always show up for cash booking at 11 months…so, if they do pull them, it’s not an instant move to cash.