2021 Point Reallocation

[skier_pete]

Before the show we had exactly this conversation with Pete, discussing the legal definition of a unit/vacation home; I even brought up Zavandor’s findings around the removal of a unit from the system due to irreparable destruction to said unit. It was decided it was too in the weeds for this platform, unfortunately.

ETA- we probably would not have been well versed enough to speak to it to the degree the topic would deserve. Additionally, this would involve a conversation around the THV reallocation and potentially the SSR view and BWV view issue as well (which I can’t help but feel plays into the whole reversal in the 2021 charts).

Yeah, honestly as it is i think we pushed the point of discussion close to the edge of where going any further would get too into minutia that would not be interesting to the average owner. I think we balanced it ok, and @Bing Showei did a great job of summarizing, probably better than I could have.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Yeah, honestly as it is i think we pushed the point of discussion close to the edge of where going any further would get too into minutia that would not be interesting to the average owner. I think we balanced it ok, and @Bing Showei did a great job of summarizing, probably better than I could have.

Just got done listening. Was probably my favorite episode to date. While I certainly understand keeping the main feed as a beginner/intermediate show, I would love a side show that deals with more of these advanced topics. Getting lost in the weeds and the discussion of numbers is cool

 

[Bing Showei]

Just got done listening. Was probably my favorite episode to date. While I certainly understand keeping the main feed as a beginner/intermediate show, I would love a side show that deals with more of these advanced topics. Getting lost in the weeds and the discussion of numbers is cool

I saw a comment on YouTube where one viewer said they didn’t understand the first 10 minutes of the show.

The fact that Pete Werner had to stop me to explain explicitly what a lock-off unit was comprised of; something that I hadn’t realized I had glossed over; speaks to how deep a lot of us on these boards are into things. I think the attraction to sites like DVCFan and platforms like the DVC Show is how accessible it is. The success of the site and show are a testament to that.

As fun as it was to recap the 2020 chart exchange with Disney and try to impress on the community how damaging they were if left unchallenged, I wonder how many eyes glazed over through it all. Even on these boards, I know there are many who chalked up the "debacle" to nothing but noise from a bunch of whiners, which to me suggests a misunderstanding of the charts implications.

I also hope there are more shows that move beyond ranking resorts for X, Y, or Z and as the show evolves, hopefully we'll see that. There are so many smart users on these boards who would make great guests for particular topics.

 

[zavandor]

As fun as it was to recap the 2020 chart exchange with Disney and try to impress on the community how damaging they were if left unchallenged, I wonder how many eyes glazed over through it all. Even on these boards, I know there are many who chalked up the "debacle" to nothing but noise from a bunch of whiners, which to me suggests a misunderstanding of the charts implications.

Last year I have tried to post on a few Facebook groups and other forums. I've written to a journalist specializing in theme parks. Results outside the DISboards? Zero. Which is a testament of how strong the Disney brand is, people were not ready to accept that they would do something illegal. (It didn't help that this was really a technical issue, not easy to explain)
This is for DVC both a strenght and a weakness. It's a strenght because organizing a lawsuit would have been a really monumental task. But it's a weakness because they cannot really afford to tarnish that strong brand. At corporate level, they wouldn't take it lightly if one of the BU is the subject of a class action.

 

[Bing Showei]

Results outside the DISboards? Zero. Which is a testament of how strong the Disney brand is, people were not ready to accept that they would do something illegal.

Outside the DISboards? Here on these boards there was a lot of pushback from people who have been involved heavily with the DIS and Disney's timeshare for longer than most of us, and they refused to believe that Disney screwed up with the reallocation. There was blind faith in Disney's "data" of which we were not privy.

The generally accepted fact that 1BRs, as observed by any member who has paid any attention to booking availability was completely dismissed in favor of "Availability from the RAT is just a moment in time." "As members we don't have a complete picture." "We are not observing movement of demand as fluidly as Disney." "Disney has years upon years of data that they can draw on and we don't."

All of those statements individually are unquestionably true, but the use of these individual facts collectively in vociferously defending Disney as infallible was frustrating.

 

[zavandor]

Outside the DISboards? Here on these boards there was a lot of pushback from people who have been involved heavily with the DIS and Disney's timeshare for longer than most of us, and they refused to believe that Disney screwed up with the reallocation. There was blind faith in Disney's "data" of which we were not privy.

The generally accepted fact that 1BRs, as observed by any member who has paid any attention to booking availability was completely dismissed in favor of "Availability from the RAT is just a moment in time." "As members we don't have a complete picture." "We are not observing movement of demand as fluidly as Disney." "Disney has years upon years of data that they can draw on and we don't."

All of those statements individually are unquestionably true, but the use of these individual facts collectively in vociferously defending Disney as infallible was frustrating.

But that wasn't everyone here. It was even worst everywhere else.

 

[Bing Showei]

But that wasn't everyone here. It was even worst everywhere else.

I believe it.

But I'd argue it actually is worse coming from these boards than it is coming from the general public. Most Disney timeshare owners out there don't know the product. It's easy to dismiss the facebook user, but when you have knowledgeable, respected veterans on these boards assuming first that Disney can do no wrong, that can be deflating to anyone trying push back against what they see as a misstep on Disney's part. I'm grateful you stuck it out as long as you did.

 

[skier_pete]

I saw a comment on YouTube where one viewer said they didn’t understand the first 10 minutes of the show.

The fact that Pete Werner had to stop me to explain explicitly what a lock-off unit was comprised of; something that I hadn’t realized I had glossed over; speaks to how deep a lot of us on these boards are into things. I think the attraction to sites like DVCFan and platforms like the DVC Show is how accessible it is. The success of the site and show are a testament to that.

As fun as it was to recap the 2020 chart exchange with Disney and try to impress on the community how damaging they were if left unchallenged, I wonder how many eyes glazed over through it all. Even on these boards, I know there are many who chalked up the "debacle" to nothing but noise from a bunch of whiners, which to me suggests a misunderstanding of the charts implications.

I also hope there are more shows that move beyond ranking resorts for X, Y, or Z and as the show evolves, hopefully we'll see that. There are so many smart users on these boards who would make great guests for particular topics.

You have to remember - these shows are designed not just for veterans that get into the ins and outs, but also for new people to look at DVC and investigate how it works. There a lot of members out there that don't know the ins and outs of the point charts anymore than "how much does it cost me to book X at my home resort". As I said, I thought we did a decent balance there without going too far into the details of the 2020 charts. The DVC shows have to be for everyone. The boards are for the obsessives.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I just had time to watch the DVC Show on the point reallocation. I thought it was really well done. Great job to the two Pete’s and Bing. I really appreciated how you set the context from last year.

It is great to have a normal, non-ulcer-producing year!

 

[SecondEventuality]

There a lot of members out there that don't know the ins and outs of the point charts anymore than "how much does it cost me to book X at my home resort". As I said, I thought we did a decent balance there without going too far into the details of the 2020 charts. The DVC shows have to be for everyone. The boards are for the obsessives.

Marketing 101 is that the biggest part of the funnel is nearly always the beginners...as you go down/or up the funnel, the expert level is the smallest part, and also the hardest to speak to since it then essentially becomes a niche market. Unless you have many irons in the fire for multiple niche markets, it rarely makes sense to speak to one select group.

Therefore, it only makes sense that the videos need to talk to the largest audience, which is by and large beginners, over and over.

I can't even verbalize how the DVC show on Youtube endlessly helped me initially, learning the ropes, as a beginner. You guys are AMAZING AND THANK YOU!

 

[Frederic Civish]

I note also released before the members meeting- you’d think they were reading these boards? Maybe DVC/ DVD management have decided it’s time to win back hearts and minds? I’d appreciate a ‘we’ve got it wrong the last few years, we have changed’- I and I suspect most members would really appreciate that and build bridges and maybe the constant criticism could start to subside as trust returns.

I agree, however, it will take more than a few years and THEIR EVERY MOVE will be scrutinized, checked and rechecked for at least the foreseeable future.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Interesting analogy on the Funnel and Marketing 101. I wonder if Disney realizes how big that Funnel has become. DVC started in the early 1990's with a very small and loyal group. DVC membership has now grown to be estimated at over 250,000 owners. So now we have people like Bing and the 2 Pete's keeping a watch on all their moves. It no longer is in a fish bowl. This is to me clearly a positive to all DVC owners. Thanks and keep it up, I do not always comment but as always I am an Avid Dis Reader.

 

[Bing Showei]

So now we have people like Bing and the 2 Pete's keeping a watch on all their moves. It no longer is in a fish bowl. This is to me clearly a positive to all DVC owners. Thanks and keep it up, I do not always comment but as always I am an Avid Dis Reader.

I honestly wish I could take credit for affecting anything, but the truth is it was people like Zavandor, crvetter, and Drusba who had the conversations with Yvonne around the legal implications of cross unit reallocations; what likely gave Disney pause about the reallocations; that are responsible for the changes we saw.

Two weeks a year I’m at the parks thinking absolutely zero about reallocations, restrictions or annual dues. Like most here, I will enjoy the splendor that is Disney for those two weeks, playing along with the magical narrative. It’s symbiotic those two weeks.

But the other 50 weeks of the year, as a timeshare “owner” with a long term real estate interest, as a parent who works hard to pay for those two weeks, and as a shareholder in a company that builds its empire on a reputation of being “the most magical/happiest place on earth,” I owe it to myself to hold a for profit corporation (that I want to see succeed for very selfish reasons) accountable for the choices it makes. We should all want that.

 

[rg35]

Not a big fan of PVB going from 118 to 125 for a week in January, since I have 120pts. That will probably have us staying 6 night instead. No big deal I suppose. The new charts seem more fair than the proposed 2020 changes. Maybe that was their plan? Create something so terrible that they would be able to get anything past us in 2021 under the guise of “we heard you”.

General advice has always been to buy with a bit of a buffer to account for point reallocations like this. There has always been some risk in buying "just enough" points at the time you purchase.

However, if you really wanted to stay for a week instead of 6 days then you could buy 5 one time use points @ $19 each.

 

[rg35]

I get that a lot of people who travel in the fall aren't happy that fall points went up, but at the same time you got years of discounted vacations because DVC took so long to account for fall travel being a high season for DVC owners. They should have made these seasonal reallocations years ago.

Nobody can really deny that the former seasonal charts didn't really align with real world supply and demand.

 

[bobbiwoz]

General advice has always been to buy with a bit of a buffer to account for point reallocations like this. ...
However, if you really wanted to stay for a week instead of 6 days then you could buy 5 one time use points @ $19 each.

Can’t buy those points until 7 months out. Room may not be available then.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

General advice has always been to buy with a bit of a buffer to account for point reallocations like this. There has always been some risk in buying "just enough" points at the time you purchase.

However, if you really wanted to stay for a week instead of 6 days then you could buy 5 one time use points @ $19 each.

Or if they didn't want to wait until 7 months then they could look for a larger transfer of points from another PVB owner. With the right size and banking it could be years before they needed to be concerned again. OR, just borrow until that's gone and then take a year off or pay cash or somewhere along the way stay at a location that requires fewer points.

 

[Gryhndmom]

Watched the DVC show on the new points chart and thought as others have that is was well done. One point of the discussion I tend to disagree with is that is if say fall is higher in points now, then people will go another time of year since they want to go to Disney anyway. between work schedules and/or getting vacation time from work, many people can’t go any other time of year other than say fall.

Over the 20 years we have been going to F&W we have noticed the increase in crowds so not surprised at the increase in points needed for a stay. We own at BLT and always get a 1 bd generally a lake view so with the new points chart we will go from 241 points to 259 points for seven nights. We typically have banked a few points from year to year so point wise we will be fine for a few years. we also have the luxury of placing our reservation 11 months out since DH bids a vacation schedule in the fall for the upcoming calendar year (one of the ”joys” of flying for an airline and deciding when you want to go on vacation)

 

[skier_pete]

Watched the DVC show on the new points chart and thought as others have that is was well done. One point of the discussion I tend to disagree with is that is if say fall is higher in points now, then people will go another time of year since they want to go to Disney anyway. between work schedules and/or getting vacation time from work, many people can’t go any other time of year other than say fall.

Over the 20 years we have been going to F&W we have noticed the increase in crowds so not surprised at the increase in points needed for a stay. We own at BLT and always get a 1 bd generally a lake view so with the new points chart we will go from 241 points to 259 points for seven nights. We typically have banked a few points from year to year so point wise we will be fine for a few years. we also have the luxury of placing our reservation 11 months out since DH bids a vacation schedule in the fall for the upcoming calendar year (one of the ”joys” of flying for an airline and deciding when you want to go on vacation)

so this is a good comment, you are correct that I don't necessarily think it will drive.a.lot of people from going in the fall, though I would say some people may be more likely.to look at.other times of the year.

that said, by increasing the point cos he in the fall, since the number of points we each own hasn't changed it will force.people going in the fall to use more points of take shorter trips. This alone should increase overall availability in the fall.

Will it shift.fall away from being the busiest period? Unlikely. It's still the third least expensive season. But they could decide.to raise it even further.

 

[Sandisw]

So, new question just occurred to me. DVC built in a lock off premium into the points charts when originally created. Last year, they tried to raise that and had to revert,

However, could DVC ever just lower the lock off premium without having to equalize else? For example, could they just lower all 1 bedrooms by 1 or 2 points a night without having to account for that?

Not thinking they would, but wondered if this falls within their ability?