2020 Point Charts

MrInfinity

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
It boggles my mind as to why 1 brs were raised. Now a 2 bedroom in some cases are only 6 points more than a 1 bedroom (BWV standard view Adventure and Choice).
Laura
There's some strategy to this -- it's not necessarily about setting the price to balance the demand. Unbalanced demand can be good for Disney. In this case 1B's are suspect. They're already the last to be taken, and now they cost more. 1B's at places like BLT/BW are taken by people from other resorts who want to get the location yet cheaper rooms are gone. This is a way to drain more points from people who own at SSR/HH/VB but are swapping in to BLT/BW/GF. This consumption of more points from outside leaves the owners at these resorts competing more heavily for the desirable rooms like Studios. The goal is to create pockets of intense competition which leads to people having to spend more points than they'd ideally like... not balance supply to meet demand in an optimal way for the customer, which would actually be worse for the company.

You have atypical seasons that generate artificially high demand as well. Create some seasons that some people will compete for, then other seasons that a new group of people will compete for.
 
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Orsino

Mouseketeer
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Note, some apparently have a misunderstanding of what DVC is required to do in reallocating points. For example, many mention some obligation in the declarations to reallocate because of demand pattern changes. There actually is no requirement in the documents to reallocate points due to seasonal, room type, or any other demand changes. The only thing the documents require is that if DVC, in its discretion, determines a reallocation is needed because of changes in demand, it can do one, as long as any increase in points for a room type or season is met by an equal decrease elsewhere so that total points applicable to the units at the resort remain unchanged. It does not actually have any express duty to make changes. One might argue that DVC's legal obligation to act in the best interests of the members requires it to reallocate when demand becomes skewed. But that is never an easy argument to win, particularly because DVC can always assert any changes it would make would help some members and hurt some and thus it is not necessarily in the bests interests of the members as a whole to make any changes.

Also, someone above asked about maximum annual changes. For any given room in any given night the points needed cannot be decreased or increased more than 20% from what they were in the prior calendar year
I would love to know more about what DVC's obligations are regarding point reallocations. As it is, I'm in position to benefit from the wacky AKV changes, but the changes are (in my opinion) bad for the owners as a whole. I'm also curious whether the disparity between 1BR and studio costs represents an actual increase in point cost to the benefit of DVC and not the owners. (My unverified theory is that one-time-use points come from the float between 1BR+studio cost versus 2BR cost. In essence, whenever members use points for studios and 1BR in what would be a 2BR lock off, the extra points go into DVC's pockets to be resold as one-time-use points. More disparity between 2BR lock off and separating the room into 1BR and studio means more money for the mouse).

Does anyone know where one-time-use point money goes?

Does anyone know what happens to the extra points that get used by owners when they split a 2BR into a studio and a 1BR?
 
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  • ElizabethG

    When it comes to havoc, nobody wreaks like me!
    Joined
    Oct 28, 2009
    In regards to 1 bdrms, it looks like often they are making it a smaller difference between seasons. For example; A BLT Theme Park View for a week in a 1-bdrm would increase in the following amount by season:
    (adventure to choice - choice to dream - dream to magic - magic to premier)
    2019: 14 - 54 - 22 - 102
    2020: 14 - 19 - 20 - 146
    So, with the exception of premier season, they are making the season you travel in less important.
    Lake view is similar:
    2019: 14 - 34 - 26 - 83
    2020: 14 - 20 - 26 - 104

    I'm just guessing, but it makes me less concerned about going in magic season. We are actually going during magic season in 2019. If I use the 2020 point chart, that vacation would actually cost us 30 points less.
     

    tjkraz

    <img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg
    Joined
    Feb 4, 2002
    One change should render many disturbed. The one at Poly. Disney built all those bungalows knowing full well they would usually not fill before 60 days out via member reservations (when Poly went on sale, if one wanted to buy enough points to get a bungalow for a week per year in magic season, it would have cost $250,000).
    I’m not entirely convinced that the bungalows would have done poorly as 20 rooms out of 4000+ at Walt Disney World. Surely there’s some demand for elite accommodations, even if many are booked at 7 months. The same has been happening with the 80-100 Grand Villas for years.

    But DVC torpedoed the bungalows with the Copper Creek Cabins. They introduced 26 similarly high-end rooms with point costs about 20% less than the bungalows. Now, I’m guessing nearly all of those 26 cabins need to be booked before there’s any dent made in the bungalows. That’s a tall challenge, and really bad circumstances for Poly owners.
     

    D-Trick

    Oakland Raiders FTW
    Joined
    Feb 15, 2017
    I look at AKV and wonder what drugs they were on. AKV value studios stayed the same, 1BRs went down about 8% per season, and 2BRs down 4-8% depending on season. In other words, someone concluded that a room view that very often books full at 8 a.m. exactly 11 months out somehow had far too little demand and thus needed a point decrease. Other changes were more diverse than other resorts.
    Not trying to argue, but I think AKV having a Value category makes things more logical for the changes.

    Lowering the points for Values doesn't change the demand for it. Neither would raising the points for Value. There are only 10 lockoffs + 8 dedicated studios, so the demand will always be there. Lowering Values gives it more room to increase the larger, more numerous categories.
     

    tjkraz

    <img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg
    Joined
    Feb 4, 2002
    And 2020 has 366 days.
    The charts are supposed to be tied to some “Base Year.” There have been educated guesses as to what that year is, but I can’t recall off the top of my head. (1992?)

    Every year, the movement of Thanksgiving and Easter has an impact, along with where certain days of the week fall in the seasons. 16 days from August 16-31 are in Dream season. If my math is correct, those 16 days could include either 4, 5 or 6 (higher priced) weekend nights, depending upon the year. Those year to year variances are supposedly nullfied by basing the charts on that single, unchanging “Base Year.”
     

    Frederic Civish

    “I’m just here for the Ears.”
    Joined
    Apr 18, 2018
    I can only hope that next year they again raise the studios, but then also lower the 1 bedrooms. It boggles my mind as to why 1 brs were raised. Now a 2 bedroom in some cases are only 6 points more than a 1 bedroom (BWV standard view Adventure and Choice).

    Laura
    We use some studios, and when we do, like at Poly, I usually need to get 2 or 3 of them. So, 3 for a week would cost me approximately 42 more points for the week. BUT, I think they needed to do this, since it is clear that Poly bungalows were way overpriced, AND it is clear that Studios are priced too LOW in general, at most DVC Resorts. Why? Because they clearly sell out first. If all of the Studios, 1 Bedrooms and 2 Bedrooms were fairly priced, you would think that they would all rent out at about the same time, so more people would use 2 bedrooms and less people would use Studios. And if this isn't the case, then they have allowed too many people to buy too few points, and have made them expect to be able to just get Studios. Hopefully they will correct that in future.

    What we mostly use, at AKV and BLT are 2 bedroom units. And those have stayed exactly the same in the season we travel the most, and have decreased in some seasons, so, maybe things will balance out.

    One more thing. Just because they raised the DVC points, doesn't mean that Studios for rent by owners are now at a disadvantage compared to Disney rented hotel rooms at Deluxe resorts. If Studios average an increase of 2 points across the board, then, on the rental market, that is currently about a $38 per night increase. Between now and 2020, they could easily raise the average price of Deluxe hotel rooms by that much.
     

    Frederic Civish

    “I’m just here for the Ears.”
    Joined
    Apr 18, 2018
    I would expect that Disney will open up the opportunity to buy just 25 points at Riviera, IF sold to current owners. This would give everyone who wants studios the chance to pick up the points they need to make up the difference, and Disney sells more points at Full Price. There just aren't that many 25 point contracts out there. Perhaps that will change in the future. New owners should probably be made to buy at least 100 points, minimum.
     

    Airb330

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2006
    I look at AKV and wonder what drugs they were on. AKV value studios stayed the same, 1BRs went down about 8% per season, and 2BRs down 4-8% depending on season. In other words, someone concluded that a room view that very often books full at 8 a.m. exactly 11 months out somehow had far too little demand and thus needed a point decrease. Other changes were more diverse than other resorts. Club level 1BRs and 2BRs went up. 1BR standard view went up adventure and choice season but down the other seasons. Savanna view 1BRs decreased 1 point per weekend day in Magic season, but an 8% increase in premier and adventure season, and then only 2 to 3 point weekly increases in choice and dream season. Standard 2BRs two points per week in adventure and dream season, 5 in choice season, 13 in magic season and 27 in premier. Savanna view 2BRs. GV's came down some except savanna view remained the same for adventure and choice season.

    You look at many of the changes, like increasing 1BRs at many resorts, and cannot come up with an explanation of justification for the change and some changes just seem to be random decisions. One change should render many disturbed. The one at Poly. Disney built all those bungalows knowing full well they would usually not fill before 60 days out via member reservations (when Poly went on sale, if one wanted to buy enough points to get a bungalow for a week per year in magic season, it would have cost $250,000). Disney got what it wanted, an excuse to legally sell a huge amount of bungalow-related points to persons who could only afford studios, while at the same time knowing it would likely get the right to rent a lot of those bungalows during the 60-day breaking period at an almost pure profit because the members would cover all the maintenance costs in dues (my tracking of Poly reservations has indicated that they are typically open at 60 days out about 80% of the time during DVC's low to moderate demand season from mid-Jan to late Sep). Now, after Poly has sold out it has decided to start shifting bungalow points to studio. One can surmise it is so it can make even more profit because it can use fewer of the points it owns at the resort to reserve and then rent bungalows even more than 60 days out. Those owning or considering buying at CCV should be aware the same can happen in relation to the cabins once CCV sells out.

    Note, some apparently have a misunderstanding of what DVC is required to do in reallocating points. For example, many mention some obligation in the declarations to reallocate because of demand pattern changes. There actually is no requirement in the documents to reallocate points due to seasonal, room type, or any other demand changes. The only thing the documents require is that if DVC, in its discretion, determines a reallocation is needed because of changes in demand, it can do one, as long as any increase in points for a room type or season is met by an equal decrease elsewhere so that total points applicable to the units at the resort remain unchanged. It does not actually have any express duty to make changes. One might argue that DVC's legal obligation to act in the best interests of the members requires it to reallocate when demand becomes skewed. But that is never an easy argument to win, particularly because DVC can always assert any changes it would make would help some members and hurt some and thus it is not necessarily in the bests interests of the members as a whole to make any changes.

    Also, someone above asked about maximum annual changes. For any given room in any given night the points needed cannot be decreased or increased more than 20% from what they were in the prior calendar year
    As a AKV owner, I couldn’t have said it better! Poly gets the shaft pretty hard here, and a lot of us on these boards predicted something like that may happen. I also own at VGF and the point changes (especially on the weekend) appear pretty awful at first glance. Time to put them into excel, thanks to everyone who has done that so far for CCV AKL etc.

    Just eyeballing it-Poly and VGF studios are hit pretty hard.
     
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    Kazrak

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 23, 2018
    I went through the BCV charts to see the differences.

    Beach Club Villas point changes.png

    It's interesting - there's only a few times that went down, but weeknights during Magic Season in 2brs dropped massively.

    Overall, it looks like they're pushing weekdays over weekends again, and rebalancing to deal with how 'year round' WDW is these days.
     

    disneynutz

    DIS Veteran
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Dec 11, 2006
    Ha, they don’t want any bad news. I’ve been to 3 or 4 annual meetings (because I was already there) and they are no more than publicity events. They allow questions, but they are mostly softballs. Inevitably, someone will go to the mic and gush about how wonderful DVC is. Even if a harder question is asked, they give a pat answer and move on.
    Most companies won't take a chance with letting unknowns voice their opinion with an open mic event. The questions are rehearsed and favor the company.

    :earsboy: Bill

     

    GrumpyInPhilly

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Nov 1, 2014
    We own @ BCV and were planning our 2020 trip for Magic season in a 1BR for 5 nights. Under the 2019 chart it would have cost us just over double the number of points of a studio but we were OK with that because we like the separate sleeping area, eating area & W/D. Looking at the new charts, we'll almost certainly book a 2BR LO for a Sun. - Thu. stay since it is now just over double the number of points of a studio and gives us a LOT more room with an additional real bed and another sofa. This reallocation is driving us out of the 1BR unit which is the least desirable (last to book up) for the majority of members and into a room that will put even more pressure on the studios. No too bad for us but for the membership in whole I don't think it's for the better.
     

    peabody58

    I'm just a drummer in a R&R Band!!
    Joined
    Mar 28, 2010
    Another thought to consider regarding this allocation is that DVC is wanting the points to better align with the 'yet to be released' Riviera point charts, which in turn will help drive the sales process.
     

    Dean

    DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    Changes were inevitable esp Adventure and studio and the Poly. I'm a little surprised they didn't even out 1 BR more than they did though overall it looks like the studios and 1 BR went up differently at some of the resorts with a net result of bring them closer together % wise. They seemed to go more resort by resort than in the past which one could argue is good or bad. Just one of the reasons I feel one usually needs a cushion of points when they buy in.
     

    DougEMG

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Aug 14, 2008
    I think it is safe to say that after this point allocation, that "balancing demand" is NOT a requirement. Sept-Dec has high demand and 1 bedrooms have low demand. Did those issues get addressed? I don't think so.

    I wonder which units Disney rents out for cash the most? Did they go down?
     

    Madame

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 15, 2014
    I think it is safe to say that after this point allocation, that "balancing demand" is NOT a requirement. Sept-Dec has high demand and 1 bedrooms have low demand. Did those issues get addressed? I don't think so.

    I wonder which units Disney rents out for cash the most? Did they go down?
    Bingo.
     

    tidefan

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 1, 2007
    I just went thru a comparison of 2019 and 2020 points for BWV. I was told that although points can be reallocated between seasons and room types , the overall points must remain the same. Based on the charts I got from here, the 2020 point chart for BWV is 136 more points needed for 2020 versus 2019. This cannot stand if my math is correct as it would fly in the face of what everyone was told about points not increasing per year just reallocating. Points needed across the board in every season would be 10382 pts in 2020 while in 2019 we only needed 10246pts. Check it out and see if my math is correct.
    Does the fact that 2020 is a leap year come into play?
     

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