2009 WDW Disney Collection Resort point charts

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I had the opportunity to thoroughly look through the 2009 Disney Collection point charts for WDW resorts today, and compare them to 2008 point charts. In every single case, the points requirement went up by at least one point per night, and in some cases more.

I'm trying to think why that would be the case, as it would seem logical to me that as the cost of staying at a WDW resorts goes up, the cost of the DVC rooms CRO rents are also going up at the same rate. It shouldn't necessarily cost more points every year for us to exchange into these resorts. The new point charts seem to imply that the value of our timeshare interests have decreased, relatively speaking, from where they stood last year.

The one thing that crosses my mind, is that perhaps they're afraid of a downturn in hotel room bookings because of issues with the economy in general and with the higher cost of travel. Perhaps the extra points per night are to make up for an expectation that CRO may not be able to book all the room nights that are available to them.

I can certainly understand the direct relationship of increasing costs to an increase in annual dues. However, I'm a little less understanding as to why there'd be a fluxuation in the value of a vacation point when trading into the Disney collection. Any thoughts?

 

[Disney_Villain]

Well, for one thing you're comparing apples & oranges.

For example, the costs for housekeeping at the Disney hotels and compare them to that of the DVC resorts (which don't get daily housekeeping) - and there is a big difference.

The expenses incurred for the hotels are larger than that of the DVC resorts. Disney may charge the same for DVC CRO bookings as they do for some of the Deluxe resorts, but that doesn't show the profit margin difference between the two. They get a good profit from cash reservations on DVC resorts! They get less from the hotels. So, if you were to opt to use points to stay at the hotels instead of the hotels, they should be charging you an arm and a leg.

Another thought: The points charts for the WDW hotels have gone up every year - not in just in the recent USA economy crisis. To blame these increases on the current economy/travel woes is a bit stretching it.

 

[mrdiscranky]

Disney don't want us using the Disney Collection. The feel the need to offer it for marketing reasons, but use the ridiculous point chars and $95 fee to strongly discourage members from using it.

Part of the problem is the deal between DVC and CRO, which greatly favors the CRO side of the house. I haven't seen the exact details, but it's pretty close to the following...

When a DVC member stays in a CRO room, DVC has to pay CRO for the full cost of the room. When CRO takes the points that the DVC member traded for that CRO room and rents them to the general public, it only sends DVC half the money it takes in.

 

[Dean]

Disney don't want us using the Disney Collection. The feel the need to offer it for marketing reasons, but use the ridiculous point chars and $95 fee to strongly discourage members from using it.

Part of the problem is the deal between DVC and CRO, which greatly favors the CRO side of the house. I haven't seen the exact details, but it's pretty close to the following...

When a DVC member stays in a CRO room, DVC has to pay CRO for the full cost of the room. When CRO takes the points that the DVC member traded for that CRO room and rents them to the general public, it only sends DVC half the money it takes in.

In general I'd agree. I think the price DVD pays for the rooms is actually a discounted rack rate, they've never published the numbers though. The 50% fee when CRO rents DVC rooms is accurate from my info but it's only on the rooms rented. If a unit is not rented, and a number are not, there's no money back to DVC.

This really is two separate issues. Our agreement on the DC is with DVD who is responsible for the cash costs. It is supposed to be a zero sum arrangement where they charge the number of points it takes to recoup the costs involved and no more. No one knows for sure if it really works this way but I suspect it does. As there are more DVC rooms, it will be harder to rent them and likely at a lower per unit price comparatively.

This is one of the areas where I feel DVC has missed the boat. I believe that while DVC members staying at DC resorts are a relatively small portion of their guests and thus $$$, I feel it is an important one. This is true both for cash stays and DC points trades. IMO, DVC could push for larger discounts and do a better job for the members. IF they were willing to play hardball and even drop some resorts that won't give enough of a discount, I think DVC could easily get a 25% cash discount and get the points costs to about 60% of what they are now. But past experience tells me that DVC members as a group don't really care what it costs as long as their desired option is still available and that DVC isn't willing to go to bat for it's members against the Disney Machine.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)........... IF they were willing to play hardball and even drop some resorts that won't give enough of a discount, I think DVC could easily get a 25% cash discount and get the points costs to about 60% of what they are now. But past experience tells me that DVC members as a group don't really care what it costs as long as their desired option is still available and that DVC isn't willing to go to bat for it's members against the Disney Machine.

I like your assumptions, LOL, but am having trouble figuring out what is supporting them.

As long as DVC has to rent the equivalent number of DVC villas to "cover" the cost of the non-DVC WDW resorts, how can they reduce the point cost of the DC resorts?

AFAIK, MS can't rent DVC villas to the general public by themselves. They have to compensate CRO/WDWTC to do it for them

Seems to me that there are almost always DVC villas available for cash via CRO (at least at SSR or OKW). I don't think many of them rent for rack to the general public (my opinion).

If the DVC villas don't rent well, and DVC has to pay someone else to rent them out, then how can DVC reduce the cost of the non-DVC WDW options?

 

[mrdiscranky]

AFAIK, MS can't rent DVC villas to the general public by themselves. They have to compensate CRO/WDWTC to do it for them

If the DVC villas don't rent well, and DVC has to pay someone else to rent them out, then how can DVC reduce the cost of the non-DVC WDW options?

DVC negotiated a deal with Disney. Yes, they have to compensate CRO. But half? Half?

On the other side, what rate is DVC paying Disney for the CR rooms? Are we getting the rate best Disney's best customers get, or do we pay somewhat more?

 

[Dean]

I like your assumptions, LOL, but am having trouble figuring out what is supporting them.

As long as DVC has to rent the equivalent number of DVC villas to "cover" the cost of the non-DVC WDW resorts, how can they reduce the point cost of the DC resorts?

AFAIK, MS can't rent DVC villas to the general public by themselves. They have to compensate CRO/WDWTC to do it for them

Seems to me that there are almost always DVC villas available for cash via CRO (at least at SSR or OKW). I don't think many of them rent for rack to the general public (my opinion).

If the DVC villas don't rent well, and DVC has to pay someone else to rent them out, then how can DVC reduce the cost of the non-DVC WDW options?

Actually it's more than simple assumptions but for purposes of this thread you'll simply have to assume they are my opinion and take it for what it's worth. Like most anything else, the money is made on the front end. IF DVD gets a better rate for the cash options they have to pay out, it takes less cash rentals to cover the cost. Fewer rentals needed means a higher per rental price overall plus LESS units need to be placed for rent. Also, 50% commission is a ludicrous cost, 25-40% is more inline with the industry with most being around 35-40%.

Here's a "example" to illustrate.

Lets assume that DVC gets a 10% discount on rack rates currently, rents 75% of the units given to them and rents those DVC units at a discount of around 30% on average. Lets further assume, for sake of the argument, that DVC has to Give CRO 3 studios or one 2 BR for every regular hotel room that is needed.

A change to a 20% discount on rack rates decreases the cash needed by (roughly) 10% but it will decrease the number of units needed to rent by roughly 30% (or more) to generate the cash. Plus you can expect likely 2-5% higher return on the CRO rentals due to less supply. So now it only takes 2 studios or a 1 BR (you get the idea).

10% discount on rack rate is the info I have, whether it's truly accurate is anyone's guess. IMO, 18-20% off rack rate across the board should be easily doable for most options without losing any choices, 30% should be workable if DVC is willing to eliminate the choices that won't go along. If they wanted to do a tiered discount related to seasons to protect higher demand times it could still average 30% discount.

I realize that DVC could also take the higher demand times preferentially and thus get more money on the rentals to reduce the points but they have not taken that approach, appropriately so IMO.

 

[disneydisneydoo]

What I found interesting was that the dates for the Holiday Season had been increased. I believe (couldn't get on the site to verify this morning) in 2008 it was only Xmas and New Years (not sure if it has always been this way). Starting with 2009 I believe they are including MLK weekend, Presiden'ts weekend, Easter, 4th of July and Thanksgiving as Holiday Season for the WDW hotels as Holiday Season points.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I had the opportunity to thoroughly look through the 2009 Disney Collection point charts for WDW resorts today, and compare them to 2008 point charts. In every single case, the points requirement went up by at least one point per night, and in some cases more.

I'm trying to think why that would be the case, as it would seem logical to me that as the cost of staying at a WDW resorts goes up, the cost of the DVC rooms CRO rents are also going up at the same rate. It shouldn't necessarily cost more points every year for us to exchange into these resorts. The new point charts seem to imply that the value of our timeshare interests have decreased, relatively speaking, from where they stood last year.

The one thing that crosses my mind, is that perhaps they're afraid of a downturn in hotel room bookings because of issues with the economy in general and with the higher cost of travel. Perhaps the extra points per night are to make up for an expectation that CRO may not be able to book all the room nights that are available to them.

I can certainly understand the direct relationship of increasing costs to an increase in annual dues. However, I'm a little less understanding as to why there'd be a fluxuation in the value of a vacation point when trading into the Disney collection. Any thoughts?

Can you post those charts or post the link?

 

[Dean]

Can you post those charts or post the link?

It's on the members sites points tables.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It's on the members sites points tables.

Dean,I was looking for the Disneyland Resorts point charts for 2009, part of the Disney Collection. They aren't on the site. I was wondering if this is the chart the poster is referring to. Looking at the chart, he may be referring to the WDW resorts, not Disneyland. My mistake! Thanks Dean!

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Looking at the chart, he may be referring to the WDW resorts, not Disneyland.

I had the opportunity to thoroughly look through the 2009 Disney Collection point charts for WDW resorts today...

Yep

 

[fwm]

Dean,I was looking for the Disneyland Resorts point charts for 2009, part of the Disney Collection. They aren't on the site. I was wondering if this is the chart the poster is referring to. Looking at the chart, he may be referring to the WDW resorts, not Disneyland. My mistake! Thanks Dean!

Does anyone know when DVC will likely post the point charts for 2009 Disneyland Resorts?

 

[Marc A.]

Well, my wife and I are using our large sum of points that we got when we joined DVC to stay at the Poly this November. We booked a GV room for 11 nights. I have the points to upgrade but every time I call they never have available rooms, only GV's. Very frustrating but I think thats all CRO releases to DVC, GV rooms.
I wonder if we get closer to our actual dates something will become available.
From now on we will only go to DVC resorts with points.

 

[minnieluvzmickey]

any chance someone could post the 2009 chart.........i'm not officially a member yet.......still waiting to close.

 

[michamato]

Does anyone know when DVC will likely post the point charts for 2009 Disneyland Resorts?

I am waiting for this too!!! I called a few times and they keep saying sometime later this summer. I want to book for Presidents week 2009. We already bought our airfare, so I hope the chart comes out soon.

 

[mrdiscranky]

any chance someone could post the 2009 chart

Here you go http://dvcnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=496&Itemid=1