2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[mello]

Well in order to "earn" the gratuity - it is the servers responsibilty to give prompt service....

jerry557 - You are 100% on the mark that it is not just Disney that adds the automatic gratuity to parties of 6 (or 8 depending on the restaurant) or more ...

...and did you know that even though the add-on gratuity is a *policy* it is not something that is mandated by ANY laws - if you feel your service for your large party was not WORTH the automatic gratuity - get a manager - let them know and be specific - even at Disney, just because they serve at Disney doesn't mean they are AMAZING & STELLAR servers!!!!

.....

Part of the issue I have with this policy stems from not one but two horrible experiences in this regard that we have had at the Rainforest Cafe (I should add, not the ones at WDW - we haven't been there because DH flat out refuses to ever set food in any RFC again). On two separate occasions we celebrated a child's birthday with a family dinner at the RFC nearest us - larger groups but not huge. The service was deplorable both times. Children's dinners were completely forgotten and not brought until everyone else was finished, a couple drinks were never brought at all (yet they surely showed up on the bill), one time we were actually charged for someone else's meal and then the server had the audacity to argue with dh about it and say, "Well somebody has to pay for it!" (Yes, maybe, but it isn't going to be us thank you very much, how about charging the person who actually ordered and ate it???) The second time, my brother's whole family's meal was charged to our visa card by mistake and it took them about 25 minutes to figure out how to fix it while my poor dh and brother sat there waiting and everyone else left the table. On both occasions dh explained very politely that he didn't feel the automatic gratuity was warranted and he would like to take it off of the bill, and not only did the servers argue with him but the manager came over and argued with him about it too. They flat out refused to do it, saying, "It's our policy".

So anywhoo... I know that the Rainforest is not Disney and vs versa, and we have certainly always had competent service at Disney, and often downright fabulous service at Disney (which is why dh decided we should buy DVC - in his words, after a few particularly magical CM/server experiences, "With service like this, why vacation anywhere else?" Nevertheless, perhaps it's possible to see why I'm extremely wary of the whole enforced tip situation.

 

[rogerram]

Actually, I found the original post insulting and was initially motivated to post a harsh and sarcastic response. I squashed the impulse, on the basic principle that You Shouldn't Always Say What You Think.

So I can sympathize with the second poster.

being the second poster, I defend what i said exactly. I find the original post to be offensive because it seems that he or she has a sense of entitlement with regards to adr's over other guests. Saying people are all taking advantage of the plan. you are supposed to take advantage of what you are paying for.

these are the 2 statements I responded negatively to from the original poster.

"The way it was, people were making sure they got every dime. In the new plan, those willing to pay for it aren't worried about making or losing $5 on each meal."

"Maybe Disney listened to the people that complained that spent money there and didn't go with the intent of milking every dime they could."

Every guest spends money there and deserves to use the ddp anyway they want. All guests are all willing to pay for it. It just is Disney squeezing more out of it's guests and putting in a deluxe plan, which I agree is good, but they make sure it is very expensive if you want this option and they get their money and make sure you have to add your tip, too. Also, those willing to pay for it should try to get the best deal possible for their money. Disney is only doing this to make more money, which is o.k. because they are a business, but they are possibly losing many guests who find this plan to be too expensive now. It is not a good savings when all is said and done. I hope they get the feedback they deserve about gouging up the prices.

 

[Shannone1]

going over our plan for our next trip. I didn't want to just guess and speculate what would work for us, I wanted some actualy numbers. So here's what I came up with:

We'll be there 14 nights, and I figured it for both our family of 5 (two real adults, two "child-adults", and one "real" child-under 9), and for my sister's family of 4 (2 adults and 2 real children).

I went through all the menus, estimated what we'll be likely to order each day, figured the cost of the DDP for our family, what's included, any extras we'd pay for OOP, tax, tip, DDE usage, including the cost of the DDE.

I then compared the results of this to my records from our last two trips, especially our other 14 night trip with the whole family, on which we "saved" around $900 (yes I know the room was rack rate, etc. etc.; this time with DVC the cost of the room is a moot point anyway so I'm simply going with comparing the actual list price of the food vs the actual price paid for the DDP).

Bottom line: On this trip, going with the plan would save us approximately $5.00 per person, per day, which is roughly equal to the tax, or a total of around $400 for the entire two week trip, IF we worked to maximize it, which we don't really tend to do. Add that to the fact that we're somewhat restriced by the plan (ie; I'd really rather order salads than desserts oftentimes), and the fact that for our party there will be a mandatory tip (oxymoron but that's another subject) of 18% at every TS, so the convenience of all-inclusiveness is gone and the control over tip is gone, I really see no benefit in using it. I've got the full number workup if anyone's actually interested in seeing it.

It's a shame because we really enjoyed the DDP very much. But the time has come to be more selective in our TS dining, and maybe even to have that bbq at the villa we've been talking about! The one possible benefit I see is that if most people feel the same way, the restaurants may indeed be less crowded, and perhaps the meus will become more varied and less standardized again??? One can hope anyway!

I'd love to see your numbers as my family will also include 2 adults, 2 "adults" children, and one acual child. We are also looking at a 12 night stay.

 

[pilferk]

The very, very early calculations that I have done so far is that the basic DDP really is not the value it used to be. If you use it right, you might be able to manage a 10% savings or so.

The Deluxe DDP can be a savings depending on how you use it....but it is a lot of food that most people probably wont be able to eat it all.

You can adjust these estimates based on your own estimates...

Basic:
Quick Service - $14
Table Service - $36 (entree, drink, dessert)
Snack - $3
Total for a day: $53.00 - 18% tip for TS = $46.50.
So a savings of about $10 a day roughly.

Deluxe:
Breakfast - $22 (buffet and juice/coffee)
Lunch - $45 (entree, appitizer, dessert, drink)
Dinner - $45 (same)
2 Snacks - $6
Total for the day: $118 - 18% tip for 2 TS = $101.00
So a savings of about $30 a day roughly.

OK, color me confused. Why are you subtracting out the 18% tip? Yes, it's no longer part of the DDP...but it really has nothing to do with how much you pay for the DDP compared to how much you'd pay OOP. You'd tip 18% either way, right? You seem to be trying to compare savings OOP and savings over the previous version of the DDP all at the same time, which confuses me.

53.00+tx = 56.18.

Your payout for DDP: 37.99.

So the ACTUAL difference between OOP spending and DDP is about 18.19 or about 32% in your example.

 

[MommySiobhan]

Tax is included in the meals correct?

Just not gratuity I thought...

 

[Princess Stitch]

Or maybe you won't. I have two kids, ages almost-6 and 9, and they've grown up going to nice restaurants because DH & I don't like fast food/counter service any more at home than we do at Disney. We have always done at least one sit down meal per day when we travel, and Disney is no exception. Now that they're both past the more fidgety, impatient years, we're really looking forward to the deluxe plan and more of the Disney dining magic - more character meals, more signature dining, more throwing caution to the wind and booking CRT even if it is overpriced and overrated.

I hope you're right! I think my biggest fear right now is that my children won't love Disney when I have them! Could you imagine, I'd be the one dragging them around the parks! At least you give me some hope.. oh.. and we're doing CRT for the second year in a row..I dont' care if it's overpriced and overrated either!

 

[pilferk]

Tax is included in the meals correct?

Just not gratuity I thought...

Yes, the tax is included for DDP (and DXDDP) meals.

My point was that the poster I responded to was NOT including tax in his "figuring" and was (it looked like, anyway) just quoting the total before tax. That 6% difference, when using the DDP compared to OOP, shouldn't be ignored.

 

[MommySiobhan]

Oh I see

 

[DISNEYDUET]

wow, I am more confused now then I was before. This decision will not be an easy one next year. We have done the dining plan on all 4 of our trips last year and on the 1 this year. We are not going to do it this upcoming trip due to the Food and Wine Festival. We are planning a trip next year with my parents and aunt. My mom has had the Lapband procedure done and can't eat a lot so the plan would be wasted on her but, the rest of us are foodies so it is a tough choice. I guess I will wait it out and see.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

Love the new deluxe plan, but with 3 meals a day that is certainly ALOT of food! I think we will most likely pass next year, since we will have a 3yr old a 2yr old and 1yr old! we will most likely do alot of QS restaurants! haha and only a few character meals!

 

[TKERBELL]

Mello - WOW I am sorry that happened at RFC - that does stink and I can see why you have the issue - again makes perfect sense -

I guess the thing to keep in mind here is that everyone's thoughts and ideas are stemming from an experience - and are opinions -

I make no bones about the fact that if I had CRAPPY service (like what Mello described) I have NO problem taking my issue directly to the 800# for the Corporate offices - That server and Manager have no business being in the restaurant business - and all that manager did was re-enforce the servers crappy service

ETA: I was told when I was training to be a mgr (twice) that Good Service will get people to come back Bad Service will lose that person plus 10 more.......

I speculate also that some people will buy the DDP (deluxe or standard) simply for the ease of not having to carry around $$$ - everything gets right on the room key - I mean even if you were paying OOP would you carry loads of cash and credit cards - or simply use your room key (or key to the world) - Just a thought -

 

[firsttimer2007]

We used the DDP on our last 3 trips and loved it. It was perfect for us.....

but now, we won't be using it again.

If you maximized the plan by really planning out the restaurants and meals, then you could get a good value for your money on the current plan. At the same time, you could be close to breaking even on the plan if you didn't maximize the plan.

Now, with the new plan, they took away 18% (tip), and another $7-$10 that was the appetizer.....so, unless you plan your restaurants and entrees carefully, you could actually pay MORE out of pocket in the end with the plan than without.

Example: You are in MGM for the day

You have the meal plan....

You go to lunch at a counter service (Toy Story Pizza Planet)
Cheese Pizza: ($5.59)
Soda: ($2.09)
Cookies: ($1.89)
That adds up to $9.57 Plus tax


You do dinner at Sci-Fi drive in (TS) and get

The Reuben ($10.99)....no appetizer since it is not included, and get the Hot Fudge Sundae for dessert ($4.99). A soda is included ($2.99)
That adds up to $18.97 plus tax.

You get your snack...an ice cream bar during the day ($2.50)

Your included food added up to $31.04 plus tax which equals $33.21

That doesn't even equal the $37.99 you paid for the day......plus you now have to add a tip for the TS out of your own pocket....you actually paid more on the dining plan than if you paid cash for the meals.

At least when it had the appetizer and tip, even at the lowest price places like my examples, you would end up adding up to about $40 for the day which is close to what you paid for the meal plan....it would be rare that you would "lose" money being on the plan. Now, with the new plan you could end up paying more for the plan on certain days and in the end break close to even, so it isn't a bargain.

Of course I used an extreme example, but the point is that the value of the meal plan is much less now, and it has very little attraction to us anymore. I would rather NOT have to plan every meal, make ADR's at all the TS we would want to eat at and would rather "wing it" sometimes, but on the meal plan, that is usually not possible (or at least not the smart way to do it). The advantage to the dining plan is that the payoff is a significant savings. Because of that, the planning is worth it.

Now, the planning, making ADR's, and hassle of using the plan isn't worth it...the savings just isn't there. We would rather spend a few nights back at the Villa and cook up dinner, or eat at some of the cheaper places.

Good point. And with that being said. Why stay on-site? You can stay off site in a suite, with breakfast included for the price of the value resorts. Take you breakfast money savings and rent a car. Drive to dinner off site.

 

[mickey2000]

Am I the only one???
IMO this is crazy having one thread ??? I am finidng it hard to find comments and its getting out of control.
Maybe we could get a few (STICKY) threads ??? Thanks

 

[william4192]

It is silly to have only one thread. There are 10 different topics on this one thread. Just silly.

 

[Ms. Heimlich]

i tried to scan thru this thread (WAY too many topics being discussed here!), and couldn't find any answers on this:

What about the 2008 Snack Option?

On the link from the dis is says:
Snack choice of a frozen novelty ice cream, popsicle or fruit bar, single serving grab bag of Frito Lay's chips, one 20 oz. bottle of Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite or Dansani Water, single piece of whole fruit, medium fountain soft drink or apple juice

So, does this mean that I cannot get a Dole Whip, Candied Nuts, School Bread, Funnel Cake, Pretzel, etc... That we got the last couple of visits on the DDP?

This (for us, anyway) will GREATLY restrict how we used that snack credit before...

TIA.

 

[pilferk]

i tried to scan thru this thread (WAY too many topics being discussed here!), and couldn't find any answers on this:

What about the 2008 Snack Option?

On the link from the dis is says:
Snack choice of a frozen novelty ice cream, popsicle or fruit bar, single serving grab bag of Frito Lay's chips, one 20 oz. bottle of Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite or Dansani Water, single piece of whole fruit, medium fountain soft drink or apple juice

So, does this mean that I cannot get a Dole Whip, Candied Nuts, School Bread, Funnel Cake, Pretzel, etc... That we got the last couple of visits on the DDP?

This (for us, anyway) will GREATLY restrict how we used that snack credit before...

TIA.

It was discussed earlier in this thread...I'll go looking for my response and link it...but here's the summary:

The language concerning snacks in the '08 brochure is almost IDENTICAL to the language in the '07 brochure. So, I think it's far too early to "panic" that snack choices will be more limited.

That being said, the "$4 rule" was never an official one made by Disney, so, because of that, there really isn't a need to "announce" changes if they wanted to make some....just change the practice at the resort. Unfortunately , we're not likely to hear about THAT happening until MUCH closer to, if not after, Jan 1 '08.

MHO is there won't be much, if any, in the way of changes. Maybe eliminate the ability to, for instance, buy a whole box of donuts with a snack credit...but not much more than that.

Edit: Here's the link...pg 7, post 101

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=20141583&postcount=101

 

[CarolA]

Part of the issue I have with this policy stems from not one but two horrible experiences in this regard that we have had at the Rainforest Cafe (I should add, not the ones at WDW - we haven't been there because DH flat out refuses to ever set food in any RFC again). On two separate occasions we celebrated a child's birthday with a family dinner at the RFC nearest us - larger groups but not huge. The service was deplorable both times. Children's dinners were completely forgotten and not brought until everyone else was finished, a couple drinks were never brought at all (yet they surely showed up on the bill), one time we were actually charged for someone else's meal and then the server had the audacity to argue with dh about it and say, "Well somebody has to pay for it!" (Yes, maybe, but it isn't going to be us thank you very much, how about charging the person who actually ordered and ate it???) The second time, my brother's whole family's meal was charged to our visa card by mistake and it took them about 25 minutes to figure out how to fix it while my poor dh and brother sat there waiting and everyone else left the table. On both occasions dh explained very politely that he didn't feel the automatic gratuity was warranted and he would like to take it off of the bill, and not only did the servers argue with him but the manager came over and argued with him about it too. They flat out refused to do it, saying, "It's our policy".

So anywhoo... I know that the Rainforest is not Disney and vs versa, and we have certainly always had competent service at Disney, and often downright fabulous service at Disney (which is why dh decided we should buy DVC - in his words, after a few particularly magical CM/server experiences, "With service like this, why vacation anywhere else?" Nevertheless, perhaps it's possible to see why I'm extremely wary of the whole enforced tip situation.

Having eaten at Rainforest's all over the country (Because I always seem to get a NEW set of traveling co-workers who "want to try it") this is NOT uncommon. This has to be one of the WORST run chains in the country and thier idea of "service" is "we LET you grace our resturant, SHUT UP" LOL!

I have protested the charge and gotten it removed. If they wouldn't I would be sorely tempted to do two things. 1. Write the idiots that own this company and complain and 2. Protest the charge on my credit card bill. I know I would lose on 2, but it would take them a while to get thier money LOL!


(I swear if you order a hamburger at the Rainforest I think they go butcher the cow while you wait.....!!! NEVER AGAIN!!! Disney or anyplace!)

 

[Ms. Heimlich]

Thanks pilferk!

i haven't decided yet if this plan is right for us. Now, we would be back in the predicament of having to carry cash for gratuities and keeping track of our vacation food budget, a situation we were happy to be rid of.

I guess we shall see...

It was discussed earlier in this thread...I'll go looking for my response and link it...but here's the summary:

The language concerning snacks in the '08 brochure is almost IDENTICAL to the language in the '07 brochure. So, I think it's far too early to "panic" that snack choices will be more limited.

That being said, the "$4 rule" was never an official one made by Disney, so, because of that, there really isn't a need to "announce" changes if they wanted to make some....just change the practice at the resort. Unfortunately , we're not likely to hear about THAT happening until MUCH closer to, if not after, Jan 1 '08.

MHO is there won't be much, if any, in the way of changes. Maybe eliminate the ability to, for instance, buy a whole box of donuts with a snack credit...but not much more than that.

Edit: Here's the link...pg 7, post 101

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=20141583&postcount=101

 

[Colleen27]

Well I only see possibly signiture resturants opening up some... But will still be booked. I remember long before DDP places like California Grill was still not very easy to book.

Although you might want people to go offsite...Disney does not. The whole idea of the dining plan was to stop people from going off-site. So I seriously doubt freeing up ADRs is the reason for this change. The last thing Disney wants is for someone to go off property and spend money somewhere else. That's a bad business philosophy. Maybe some will end up doing that, but it is not Disney's intention. Remember what Walt said, all his guests are VIPs.

I don't think Disney wants people to go off site, but I think it is an acceptable and predictable consequence of the changes. For the last couple years, table service restaurants have become increasingly overwhelmed with low-profit DDP guests, to the almost total exclusion of the higher profit OOP guest who didn't spend hours of research planning his trip. By serving mainly DDP guests, who are eating at a greatly reduced cost, while turning away walk ins, Disney is missing out on potential profits. Making the DDP less attractive means easing the demand for ADRs and opening up space for some of those OOP customers. Losing some of the most cost-conscious, lowest profit guests is an acceptable loss if they are replaced by higher profit, out of pocket customers, and I think that's what Disney is going for with these changes. It just makes good business sense to try to find a better balance than currently exists.

 

[pilferk]

Thanks pilferk!

i haven't decided yet if this plan is right for us. Now, we would be back in the predicament of having to carry cash for gratuities and keeping track of our vacation food budget, a situation we were happy to be rid of.

I guess we shall see...

I'm assuming (though we'll have to see what is put in practice) that I can simply charge the tips back to my room when on the DDP...where I'll have a credit card on file. Hopefully, they won't actually require you to tip in cash (because, in all honestly, we NEVER travel with large amounts of cash on hand).

On the budget side....yes, you'll need to approximate what you think you'll spend in tips for your trip. Not quite as convenient, to be sure, than the old DDP plan offered.