2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[Colleen27]

Good point. And with that being said. Why stay on-site? You can stay off site in a suite, with breakfast included for the price of the value resorts. Take you breakfast money savings and rent a car. Drive to dinner off site.

It really is all so subjective. I can't imagine staying offsite, because I don't want to have to drive, hassle with (and pay for) parking, worry about which one of us is going to abstain from wine with dinner because of the drive back to our resort, etc. We thought about it, because we have a family member who owns vacation rentals in Terra Verde and Windsor Hills an would give us a great rate, but we decided that we just didn't want to deal with any of that on vacation. The closest to offsite we'll probably ever come is the Swan/Dolphin, because we'd still have Disney transportation to get to and from the parks.

 

[DISNEYDUET]

What is the general opinion on the Wine add-on? For $40 I am almost scared to ask what they will offer. And are you limited to just one Wine and Dine add on? What if you have more than 2 adults traveling in your party and everyone wants the add on? What then?
We had an unpleasant situation at Citricous last year. We tried to order 4 different bottles of wine and they were out of all of them. Then the manager came over and said the only thing they had was their "house selection" of the evening. It was terrible and then they tried to charge us for the more expensive first bottle that we ordered but never got!

 

[Lewisc]

Disney doesn't even have to wait until 2008. They could make changes tomorrow or the day before free dining. Disney could just remove the DDP logo from items like the box of donuts, large bags of chips and large bottles of milk for example.

The description of snacks specifies "single serving" and a lot of the currently allowed snacks are clearly larger then single serving.

That being said, the "$4 rule" was never an official one made by Disney, so, because of that, there really isn't a need to "announce" changes if they wanted to make some....just change the practice at the resort. Unfortunately , we're not likely to hear about THAT happening until MUCH closer to, if not after, Jan 1 '08.

MHO is there won't be much, if any, in the way of changes. Maybe eliminate the ability to, for instance, buy a whole box of donuts with a snack credit...but not much more than that.

Edit: Here's the link...pg 7, post 101

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=20141583&postcount=101

 

[Angela Bricker]

Decisions Decisions. The Deluxe plan intrigues me but I can't justify spending $70 for my 10y DD to eat per day. It is just too much. I love the idea of all the meals being included though and being able to do some 2TS meals without having to then pay OOP because I'm out of credits.

I just sat down and wrote out where we want to eat on our March trip:

Boma (D)
Le Cellier (D)
Crystal Palace (B)
Ohana (D)
Sci Fi (D)
Cali Grill (D, 2TS)
Coral Reef (D)

We are travelling with my parents but they are paying their own way. I am responsible for myself, DD10, DD8 and DS5.

As it stands we have 8TS credits above and will only have 6TS with the regular package.

I figured out if I paid OOP for Crystal Palace and Sci Fi, and I calculated what I would spend on appies at each dinner (I do enjoy an appy) plus I would buy 2 refillable mugs so I added that in too and came up with just over $200.

*I didn't calcuate tip at all because I will have to pay that seperate regardless if I choose Regular DDP or Deluxe DDP

When I calculated our package price on Disney.com for with the Regular DDP vs the Deluxe DDP the one with the Deluxe came out roughly $500 more.

So even if my $200 OOP estimate is low it is still quite a bit lower than what the Deluxe plan would cost me.

I just think for us this time the regular DDP is the way to go. There is no way the extras we'll have to pay OOP on add up to the $500 difference to the Deluxe plan.

I still think the Deluxe is a neat package but just not for us this trip.

Allyson

Dear MomofCKJ,

When we went last year we had the DDP for free (YAY!), just the basic version. Mostly, it was plenty of food, no need for the extra meals (IMH). But we had wanted to eat at two signature restaurants and didn't have enough credits. What we did was pay cash for the children's meals my DD7 would have been required to eat anyway (and she's not a big fan of 'big people' food!), which generally cost us about $6-8, and saved her credits for us big people at the TS restaurants.

And yes, I'm sure it's people like us who have driven the DDP to change, but hey - I'm a yankee! And it was perfectly within the rules. I assume it's still the same, and that all credits are banked for the group in a nonspecific account.

As a sidenote, though - the free DDP really seems to have hurt quality and service at some of the restaurants, at least. My DH took us to Artist Point for our big night out, in fact that's what we'd been saving credits for. The dinner was a nightmare - my food didn't come til everyone else was done, just to name one problem. To make up for it (ahem) the server took the kid's meal off the check. Whoop-de-doo. So I'm not totally convinced DDP is good for anyone. Of course, you know if they're offering it next summer when we got back I'll be the first to sign up

Hope that helps!

 

[pilferk]

Disney doesn't even have to wait until 2008. They could make changes tomorrow or the day before free dining. Disney could just remove the DDP logo from items like the box of donuts, large bags of chips and large bottles of milk for example.

The description of snacks specifies "single serving" and a lot of the currently allowed snacks are clearly larger then single serving.

Obviously. The point remains, we won't REALLY know if there are changes made until they go into effect (or shortly before, perhaps). There's nothing we've been given, by Disney, that indicates they're going to make any changes to the current snack policy. The supposition is, since they don't need to really "announce" anything, that they'd wait to make those changes until the OTHER changes go into effect, too. They don't HAVE too, obviously, but it would make sense.

The description we have this year is the exact same as the one we had in '07. So that, in and of itself, doesn't really tell us anything. We can suppose they MIGHT remove some of the items you suggest...they might do lots of things where snacks are concerned...but they just as easily might not. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[pilferk]

And yes, I'm sure it's people like us who have driven the DDP to change, but hey - I'm a yankee! And it was perfectly within the rules. I assume it's still the same, and that all credits are banked for the group in a nonspecific account.

Nope, not the same. Child credit is a child credit (and can only be used on kids meals). So adults can no longer use them to get Adult meals at the TS places.

 

[Angela Bricker]

Nope, not the same. Child credit is a child credit (and can only be used on kids meals). So adults can no longer use them to get Adult meals at the TS places.

Oh, serious bummer! Though for us, I think the lack of flexibility and slightly high price would keep me from signing up unless it were free again, anyway.

 

[Sammie]

Disney doesn't even have to wait until 2008. They could make changes tomorrow or the day before free dining. Disney could just remove the DDP logo from items like the box of donuts, large bags of chips and large bottles of milk for example

Exactly. I don't think you will a definite list of approved snacks from Disney. You will simply have to go and see what is available and on any given day, someone might come back and say a certain item was an approved snack and then next week it will be gone.

I know on our trip this past week some of the items that were snacks last year had been removed such as the box of doughnuts.

 

[Lewisc]

A couple of the "rumor" sources mentioned snack cutbacks. We know some guests are using some snacks as meal replacements. We know Disney is looking to make more money from the meal plan. We know some of the current snacks far exceed any reasonable definition of "single serving" size.

It's not a reach to assume some reduction in allowed snacks. I agree we probably won't know until some DIS member posts, Disney doesn't need to provide any advance notice.

I wouldn't use the present snack policy in evaluating a 2008 DDP purchase.

edited to say I just read Sammies post, looks like Disney isn't waiting to delete some of the obvious items such as the box of donuts.

Obviously. The point remains, we won't REALLY know if there are changes made until they go into effect (or shortly before, perhaps). There's nothing we've been given, by Disney, that indicates they're going to make any changes to the current snack policy. The supposition is, since they don't need to really "announce" anything, that they'd wait to make those changes until the OTHER changes go into effect, too. They don't HAVE too, obviously, but it would make sense.

The description we have this year is the exact same as the one we had in '07. So that, in and of itself, doesn't really tell us anything. We can suppose they MIGHT remove some of the items you suggest...they might do lots of things where snacks are concerned...but they just as easily might not. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[pilferk]

A couple of the "rumor" sources mentioned snack cutbacks. We know some guests are using some snacks as meal replacements. We know Disney is looking to make more money from the meal plan. We know some of the current snacks far exceed any reasonable definition of "single serving" size.

It's not a reach to assume some reduction in allowed snacks. I agree we probably won't know until some DIS member posts, Disney doesn't need to provide any advance notice.

I wouldn't use the present snack policy in evaluating a 2008 DDP purchase.

edited to say I just read Sammies post, looks like Disney isn't waiting to delete some of the obvious items such as the box of donuts.

The only place I've seen the rumors of snack cut backs are from "board warriors". Nothing on any of the sites which first reported the "DDP changes". Am I missing them?

As for the rest....I disagree. We don't KNOW any of it, really. We might assume it. But I'm not sure it really applies. At least not that it relates to the "snack policy". We're just making leaps of logic...Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. We'll simply have to wait and see. That's been my point from the outset: Don't "panic" quite yet.

I'm not saying it's a reach....I'm saying, though you may be right, you just as easily might not be. What we know gives them good reason to make changes...but that doesn't mean they will.

Again, I've not said they won't make any changes. Just that I suspect the changes (and I did preface it with MHO) will be minimal and won't be announced. I even cited the "donut change" as an example of the types of changes we might see.

I saw Sammie's post, too...what's odd is that SOME were reporting, right up until the middle of last week, that the "donut trick" still worked. I wonder if they're either slowly making the change, or if different resorts/stores have different policies enacted. Hopefully, we'll get more reports over the next few weeks.

 

[paulh]

You'd need to spend about $425 to "pay" for the $85 version of the card.

You'd need to spend about $300 to "pay" for the $60 version of the card.

that's pretty close to what we spend on TS in a week.

Our DDE card paid for itself in about 8 meals and there's only 2 of us - if we'd been a family of 4 it'd have taken much less than that.

For example we like to do character breakfasts a lot (think 4 or 5 per trip..they add up fast).
With the DDE we get a discount of about $8 each time. That's $32-$40 right there, and we had a dozen of ADRs this trip.

.

What i added in post that was thinking of getting DDE for OOP on DDP ie app + alcohol,your factoring in costs without using ddp so would take longer to benifit from card on ddp,as not applyed to whole meal
Paulh

 

[surfergrl31]

Am I the only one???
IMO this is crazy having one thread ??? I am finidng it hard to find comments and its getting out of control.
Maybe we could get a few (STICKY) threads ??? Thanks

Amen!! I thank the moderators for trying to fix the solution to fifty threads popping up about the new plan, but we really just need a faq thread. Then maybe keep this thread for all rants and raves about the new dp. I have come to the terms it is done, I can't change it and have spoken my piece with disney about the changes. I think I smell a dead horse here. A sticky thread with just the faq's and maybe a strategy plan would be a great idea!

 

[Colleen27]

Not necessarily. It CAN be a discount, if you know what you're doing. If you're the average family who's never been to WDW, doesn't know that there is such a thing as the DIS and AllEars and doesn't even know that Disney has fine restaurants you can end up with something like this :

- 1 TS : Crystal Palace Breakfast $18.99
- 1 CS : Peco's Bill $12
- 1 Snack : $3

Total : $33.99

For every family who's using the DDP to its full potential (TS at Epcot restaurants, CS at Pepper Market) I bet that there is a family who wastes credits on breakfasts and cheap CS.

But that's how discount programs tend to work when they're priced correctly. They don't pay off for everyone, and they don't look attractive when you're looking at a single purchase or a single day. You have to look at it over the entire trip, because a single high price day (say Tangerine Cafe for lunch and Le Cellier for dinner) can balance out a few of those cheap days. And even using your numbers, once you add in tax you're up to $36 on that day - very close to the plan price, despite selecting some of the cheapest meals for each credit.

 

[UConnJack]

Personally, I loved having tips included because I hate the whole idea of tipping for service. I have never understood why the service industry needs tips to ensure good service. If I don't perform good work at my job, I get fired. If a server gets a lot of complaints or is observed to be providing poor service by the manager, then they should be reprimanded and have the possibility of losing their job as motivation. Is anyone else annoyed that even convenience store clerks now have tip jars on the counter?

Now I know that servers cannot live on pay alone, and most bust their butt providing good service, so I have no problem paying 15%-18% more on my bill to pay them. I just have never liked the idea of my being responsible for regulating the level of service I receive (i.e., through tipping). When I go to a restaurant, I would much prefer not to have to be evaluating my service and determining an appropriate tip at the end. I just want to enjoy my meal, enjoy my company, pay the bill and leave, and not have to worry about tipping. That's why I loved the DDP so much, and love it when other restaurants automatically add 18% (i.e., for big parties).

And lets face it, MOST people do not tip based on service quality like it is intended. Most people have a set amount they usually always tip, whether its 18%, 15%, 10%, a few dollars, or a stiff, regardless of their service quality.

 

[Colleen27]

The only place I've seen the rumors of snack cut backs are from "board warriors". Nothing on any of the sites which first reported the "DDP changes". Am I missing them?

That's been my impression too. I haven't seen anything I'd term reliable, just speculation and rumor on the board. I do fully expect some cutbacks, like the donut thing, but I don't see them cutting all the way back to strictly what is listed.

 

[pilferk]

Personally, I loved having tips included because I hate the whole idea of tipping for service. I have never understood why the service industry needs tips to ensure good service. If I don't perform good work at my job, I get fired. If a server gets a lot of complaints or is observed to be providing poor service by the manager, then they should be reprimanded and have the possibility of losing their job as motivation. Is anyone else annoyed that even convenience store clerks now have tip jars on the counter?

Doesn't bother me, because I recognize the alternative is for the restaurant to PAY them more, and thus raise their prices. It gives me a bit more control (so I can pay them more, usually, that I suspect they'd get otherwise) over the situation...which I think is as it should be.

Do you get any sort of performance bonus at work? Yearly bonus, X-mas bonus based on company performance...something like that? To me...tipping is the same equivalent, just spread out over their entire working year.

Now I know that servers cannot live on pay alone, and most bust their butt providing good service, so I have no problem paying 15%-18% more on my bill to pay them. I just have never liked the idea of my being responsible for regulating the level of service I receive (i.e., through tipping). When I go to a restaurant, I would much prefer not to have to be evaluating my service and determining an appropriate tip at the end. I just want to enjoy my meal, enjoy my company, pay the bill and leave, and not have to worry about tipping. That's why I loved the DDP so much, and love it when other restaurants automatically add 18% (i.e., for big parties).

Other than cost....why can't you simply pay 18% regardless. Don't evaluate, don't modify, don't do any of that....just pay the set tip amount. You're under no obligation to the industry as a whole to be the "service monitor and reenforcement" brigade if it bothers you to do so. And no, I'm not saying that snidely....I'm serious. I know people who do just that...triple the tax and leave. Heck, most of the time I do it...because that's my baseline tip and that's what most service gets. If I don't notice, one way or the other, then service was good and you get the baseline.

I think the point is...it's not that people are sitting there with a stopwatch, making sure drinks are refreshed, etc and counting how many times the waitstaff stops on their napkin. It's that when the service is TRULY bad...you notice it, no matter what you "want" to happen. Just as when it's truly stellar, you don't need to be "evaluating" to notice it. You just do.

And lets face it, MOST people do not tip based on service quality like it is intended. Most people have a set amount they usually always tip, whether its 18%, 15%, 10%, a few dollars, or a stiff, regardless of their service quality.

I think that's a big blanket statement to make. I think trying to say "MOST PEOPLE" do anything is a reach. While I DO think most people have a "baseline tip" they leave, and probably leave that most of the time...I'd venture it's at least as much because most often service is neither awful nor stellar. But I have as much to back that up as you have to back up that MOST people don't tip on service quality: that is...simply my experience with our social circle.

 

[Lewisc]

The original source of a lot of the rumors was Len Testa's (unofficial guide) comments in Lou's podcast.

The rumors he listed included no tips, the deluxe plan, the wine plan and reduced snacks.

I can't see Disney going back to just the half dozen snacks listed in the brochure.

The only place I've seen the rumors of snack cut backs are from "board warriors". Nothing on any of the sites which first reported the "DDP changes". Am I missing them?
....
I saw Sammie's post, too...what's odd is that SOME were reporting, right up until the middle of last week, that the "donut trick" still worked. I wonder if they're either slowly making the change, or if different resorts/stores have different policies enacted. Hopefully, we'll get more reports over the next few weeks.

 

[pilferk]

The original source of a lot of the rumors was Len Testa's (unofficial guide) comments in Lou's podcast.

The rumors he listed included no tips, the deluxe plan, the wine plan and reduced snacks.

I can't see Disney going back to just the half dozen snacks listed in the brochure.

You mean the one on wdwtoday.com?

I missed anything to do with "reduced snacks" on that. I'll have to listen to it again on the way home.

 

[rogerram]

Personally, I loved having tips included because I hate the whole idea of tipping for service. I have never understood why the service industry needs tips to ensure good service. If I don't perform good work at my job, I get fired. If a server gets a lot of complaints or is observed to be providing poor service by the manager, then they should be reprimanded and have the possibility of losing their job as motivation. Is anyone else annoyed that even convenience store clerks now have tip jars on the counter?

Now I know that servers cannot live on pay alone, and most bust their butt providing good service, so I have no problem paying 15%-18% more on my bill to pay them. I just have never liked the idea of my being responsible for regulating the level of service I receive (i.e., through tipping). When I go to a restaurant, I would much prefer not to have to be evaluating my service and determining an appropriate tip at the end. I just want to enjoy my meal, enjoy my company, pay the bill and leave, and not have to worry about tipping. That's why I loved the DDP so much, and love it when other restaurants automatically add 18% (i.e., for big parties).

And lets face it, MOST people do not tip based on service quality like it is intended. Most people have a set amount they usually always tip, whether its 18%, 15%, 10%, a few dollars, or a stiff, regardless of their service quality.

I find the tips the problem. Automatic tips are not good for consistent service, but to only reduce the cost $1 and make you pay for it is wrong. Figuring out making a minimal amount of profit over the current plan, you need to drop the cost more like $5 per person to help cover the tip and still make more money.$5 off the cost is more like a meal that costs about $30 when you add the tip in. Many meals can cost more than that, so a tip might cost you $7+ for each guest. They will still make more money and then you also lose your appetizer that can be from $5 up to $10+. That is a big loss. If the cost was much less then paying the tip would be fine with me, as they will get a good tip for good service.

the other thing you mentioned, does bother me and i never tip at convienience store or my local dunkin donuts where I run in for a coffee and leave. I am not using a table or using anything that needs additional service. We get it at our pizza shop also, with the tip jar(and a sad note about paying for school,etc. taped to it)in town also and if we are taking out, I don't tip. If we eat there, I will.

 

[UConnJack]

Doesn't bother me, because I recognize the alternative is for the restaurant to PAY them more, and thus raise their prices. It gives me a bit more control (so I can pay them more, usually, that I suspect they'd get otherwise) over the situation...which I think is as it should be..

In this case, I agree the problem would be ensuring servers got paid more (i.e., not the restaurant jacking prices 20% while only funneling 10% to the servers.) I would rather keep the server "tip" as a separate but consistent (15-20%) line item of the bill that goes directly to the server.

Do you get any sort of performance bonus at work? Yearly bonus, X-mas bonus based on company performance...something like that? To me...tipping is the same equivalent, just spread out over their entire working year...

Figured someone would counter with that. Yes I do, some years, but that is the company rewarding me for my work, not my company's clients (whom I compare with restaurant patrons). As a matter of fact, it is illegal for clients to give me anything directly. I don't want the responsibility of judging my server's performance, that should be the employer's responsibility. Subsequently, it is the employer (the restaurant) that I hold responsible for my service.

Other than cost....why can't you simply pay 18% regardless. Don't evaluate, don't modify, don't do any of that....just pay the set tip amount. You're under no obligation to the industry as a whole to be the "service monitor and reinforcement" brigade if it bothers you to do so. And no, I'm not saying that snidely....I'm serious. I know people who do just that...triple the tax and leave. Heck, most of the time I do it...because that's my baseline tip and that's what most service gets. If I don't notice, one way or the other, then service was good and you get the baseline.

Didn't think it was snide at all. That is what I usually do. But then where does the server get their incentive to provide good service? Some will say its my own fault for tipping a constant amount and not based on my service level, but that's my point. I don't want to be the one policing the servers using tips. I want the restaurant (or hotel, or transportation service company, etc.) to do that. And if I don't like the service I get from a particular restaurant, hotel, company, etc., then I'd take my business elsewhere.

I think that's a big blanket statement to make. I think trying to say "MOST PEOPLE" do anything is a reach. While I DO think most people have a "baseline tip" they leave, and probably leave that most of the time...I'd venture it's at least as much because most often service is neither awful nor stellar. But I have as much to back that up as you have to back up that MOST people don't tip on service quality: that is...simply my experience with our social circle.

I can't believe you are calling me on a big blanket statement based on nothing but anecdotal or personal experience! I'm sure a DIS board poll would generate some irrefutable data just like it did for SSR owner's reservation habits....

But seriously, no, I don't have any hard facts for this claim. I agree that most people probably leave a "baseline" tip most of the time as you surmise, but I just go further and guess that most people don't alter that baseline much or at all unless the service is extraordinary either way, and even then they may not for reasons of being cheap or afraid of looking cheap. I just don't think that enough people use tips to truly reflect their satisfaction with service, therefore making them useless to regulate service quality.