2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[Katiebell]

I agree I would have rather paid $5 more and had tip included and CHOICE of appie or desseert!!

I think most folks would have been a lot happier with that option -- I know I would have liked it better! And a $5 increase wouldn't have been surprising to most because the cost of everything has been going up. But it wouldn't have been as profitable for Disney's bottom line. A few have pointed out that more people are willing to pay OOP for an appetizer (you are hungry at the beginning of a meal and everything looks good), and desserts are cheaper to serve (less labor). And the cash value of the tip is a lot more than $5. So instead, Disney made lucrative changes under the guise of pleasing the guests:

No more automatic tip -- for all the folks that complained that the automatic 18% gratuity resulted in lackluster, slipshod service...now we can decide for ourselves exactly how much we would like to tip and pay out of our own pockets. That will teach those darn lazy servers a lesson! Of course, the COST of the plan didn't go down 18%

No more appetizer -- for all the folks that complained that the DDP had just too much food...not anymore! No more included appetizer worth $7-$10, and they lowered the price of the plan $1/day.

There are so many options for dining at Disney:
1. Pay OOP
2. Buy the plan and have fun using it the best you can
3. Buy the plan and buy extras
4. Buy the deluxe plan
5. For kids that eat like adults -- go to buffets. Or use the kid's plan for the snack credits and the desserts and drinks that come with the kid's meals, and buy your kid extra adult entrees or appetizers.
6. Hope for free dining, and be willing to pay rack rate for your room to get it!

#6 will probably be our choice this time. We are going in September, hoping for free dining, but if not we'll get a better rate on our room. I can't see paying for the dining plan OOP this time because we can eat on less than $75 for the two of us per day, especially if we don't have a TS every single day and we are a bit less extravagant.

 

[apostolic4life]

Ummm, isn't that what they did - actually, maybe even a "bit" more than $15 per day, considering the removal of both appetizers and the tip?

Come to think of it, maybe that IS why so many people are "go[ing] through the roof...", considering this thread alone is 100 pages long.

Ummm, no. The fact is, the price went down a dollar........the DDP cost to Disney went down, and the DDP perveived value for customers went down. The removal of the tip and appetizer removed value but it did not increase the price of the plan. If this was an increase in price they would be charging $52.95 per person now, not $37.95. The price went down by $1, while the perceived value dropped by $15-$20. There is a difference in the two factors.

Even though the value has decreased, it is still a decent bargain (around 10% savings) over paying OOP for your food. What people are going through the roof about is not an increase in price, it is a decrease in perceived value.

 

[apostolic4life]

I agree I would have rather paid $5 more and had tip included and CHOICE of appie or desseert!!

Who wouldn't want to maintain a huge savings with a tiny $5 price increase?? The simple fact is a $5 increase would not have covered the cost of the tip or appetizer components of the DDP. Would you be willing to pay $15 (the cost Disney faces) to keep those two items on the plan?? Probably not. To offer a choice of appetizer or dessert would minimize another reason for the removal of the first course; by removing the appetizer, they are able to get people in and out of the restaurant quicker which means more revenue and more profit. I know most people do not see a difference in appetizers and desserts because they are priced similarly on the menu, but the fact is the desserts are more profitable since the ingredients to make them cost less. This and the concept of quicker table turns ensures appetizers will never be part of the DDP again (unless WDW sees a dramatic decrease in restaurant traffic).

From one parent to another, great analogy.

Thanks, I was proud of myself too........feel free to use it, just be sure to give me credit............

 

[sazcjg]

I agree. We are getting much less value for a $1.00 disount in price Lets face it, with the DP most choose to eat a little "richer" than they would other wise. With my family of 5 I expect our sit down dinners to run between $75.00 to 80.00 per meal without the dining plan. An 18% tip would average around $15.00. With the Dining plan I expect our sit down meals to run an average of $125.00. Granted there will be 5 $5.00 deserts that we ordinarily probably would not order and I can UNLEASH my 14 year old EATING MACHINE so that he can order that $30.00 steak every night. Now the 18% tip increase to $23.00 So the way I see it is like this, the fine folks at WDW have given me a $1.00 discount x 5 people or $5.00 per day. BUT I now lose the appetizers which for a family of five had a value of $30.00 and am responsible for the $23.00 tip. So in reality I am saving $5.00 but would be spending $53.00 more per sit down dinner to equal the DP from last year Hmmm it makes ya wonder if WDW isnt actually charging us much more afterall? They are just using a slight of hand and sprinkling it with pixie dust

 

[kdzgon]

...Well, they added extra meals (counting on that almost NO ONE will do two, let alone three TS meals a day), increased the cost $30, and they call it the Deluxe plan

I'm not so sure "almost no one" will do two, let alone three TS meals a day. I'd really like to hear more feedback from people that have done the Deluxe Plan. I do agree most will not be doing three a day, but I'd bet many are using three credits a day, using double TS credits for Signature Dining. I wouldn't want to do this for a week or more but I'd like to try it for a few days somewhere along the line.

 

[apostolic4life]

I'm not so sure "almost no one" will do two, let alone three TS meals a day. I'd really like to hear more feedback from people that have done the Deluxe Plan. I do agree most will not be doing three a day, but I'd bet many are using three credits a day, using double TS credits for Signature Dining. I wouldn't want to do this for a week or more but I'd like to try it for a few days somewhere along the line.

For our trip in November we are doing the DxDDP. Our plan is an early lunch (11-1) at a 1TS restaurant then a late dinner (6-8) at a signature restaurant each day. Our family just does not like CS or fast food, so opted for the DxDDP so we could go enjoy some great WDW restaurants (oh yeah, and we get appetizers )

 

[kdzgon]

Ummm, no. The fact is, the price went down a dollar........the DDP cost to Disney went down, and the DDP perveived value for customers went down. The removal of the tip and appetizer removed value but it did not increase the price of the plan. If this was an increase in price they would be charging $52.95 per person now, not $37.95. The price went down by $1, while the perceived value dropped by $15-$20. There is a difference in the two factors.

Even though the value has decreased, it is still a decent bargain (around 10% savings) over paying OOP for your food. What people are going through the roof about is not an increase in price, it is a decrease in perceived value.

Unless you believe patrons should/would no longer tip, how can you say the removal of tips is merely a reduction in "perceived value" and not an increase in cost? I will agree the actual cost charged dropped by $1, but unless you believe people should not/will not tip at all, the fact that the tips are no longer included definitely increased the OOP cost (to a purchaser of the ddp) as well. I will also agree that the added cost of omitting tips might not be >$10 for everyone, so for some families including just these two factors (new price, OOP tips) may not reach the "$10-$15" difference originally referenced.

Nevertheless, for many people the true cost of eating the same meals and snacks as available (and chosen) under the 2007 plan is significantly more than with the 2008 plan. This is not "perceived"; it is fact. Last year, we ate "W,X,Y,Z" at a cost of $37.99 per day; this year, eating the same "W,X,Y,Z" will cost significantly more than $37.99. How is this not an increase in cost??

There may well be a decrease in the perceived "value", but it is in addition to the increase in cost. I agree they are separate issues, but IMO people are upset by both the increase in price (of net OOP cost for the same consumption) and a decrease in perceived value.

Obviously each family is different, but the new plan would not have "saved" us 10% on our last trip, even ignoring the issue of appetizers. I agree it is possible, but it also takes a good amount of planning now to "maximize" the value in order to spend ~10% less on the DDP than OOP. Eating breakfasts, lunches, and/or buffets (or using 2 credits for things such as Mickey's BBQ) instead of higher-end TS dinners may well result in a higher cost on the DDP than OOP, especially if one is using snack credits for the "single serve" snack bags that retail for $.79.

 

[apostolic4life]

Unless you believe patrons should/would no longer tip, how can you say the removal of tips is merely a reduction in "perceived value" and not an increase in cost? I will agree the actual cost charged dropped by $1, but unless you believe people should not/will not tip at all, the fact that the tips are no longer included definitely increased the OOP cost (to a purchaser of the ddp) as well. I will also agree that the added cost of omitting tips might not be >$10 for everyone, so for some families including just these two factors (new price, OOP tips) may not reach the "$10-$15" difference originally referenced.

Nevertheless, for many people the true cost of eating the same meals and snacks as available (and chosen) under the 2007 plan is significantly more than with the 2008 plan. This is not "perceived"; it is fact. Last year, we ate "W,X,Y,Z" at a cost of $37.99 per day; this year, eating the same "W,X,Y,Z" will cost significantly more than $37.99. How is this not an increase in cost??

There may well be a decrease in the perceived "value", but it is in addition to the increase in cost. I agree they are separate issues, but IMO people are upset by both the increase in price (of net OOP cost for the same consumption) and a decrease in perceived value.

Obviously each family is different, but the new plan would not have "saved" us 10% on our last trip, even ignoring the issue of appetizers. I agree it is possible, but it also takes a good amount of planning now to "maximize" the value in order to spend ~10% less on the DDP than OOP. Eating breakfasts, lunches, and/or buffets (or using 2 credits for things such as Mickey's BBQ) instead of higher-end TS dinners may well result in a higher cost on the DDP than OOP, especially if one is using snack credits for the "single serve" snack bags that retail for $.79.

Price is the amount charged to the guest; in this discussion that is $37.95. The value is the total combined benefit for the price paid by the guest. This value used to include the tip and the appetizer.......this is no longer the case. The value for the price paid has decreased. The price paid has decreased. Yes, you will still have to pay for tips, but even if you choose not to use the DDP you will still pay for the tip at a TS venue. In past years the tip being included was part of the value of the plan............now it is not. Yes, you will still have to pay the tip, but would you not also have to pay this if not on the DDP?? They did not raise the price of the DDP, they decreased the value...........yes, if you choose to buy the appetizer you will pay extra for it, but the simple fact is you do not have to buy it. I am basing my "rant" on what the plan is in it's current state, not what I wish it was from former years.

I understand you are not happy because of the changes, but your feelings do not redefine the meanings of the terms I have discussed: price, value, cost. Those things have firm meanings and cannot be defined to fit our point of view. I never said the guest would not have to pay more OOP, they will, and that will increase the cost of eating on property for each guest. As for the tip, it was included to make the plan more attractive (which is perceived value), but now that benefit has been removed which makes the plan less attractive (again perceived value) while the price has stayed basically the same. Price, value and cost are not interchangeable terms because they each represent different factors of economic consideration.

 

[ADP]

I was going through this thread to find an answer to a question, but gave it about 10 pages into it so I'll ask it here. If its a repeat or an easy question I apologize.

There used to be a day when you could use a childs TS credit as an adult credit. Basically, you had X number of credits on your Key To The World Card and you could use them how you wanted to.

Are the credits separated now by child versus adult, or can you use them as adult and pay out of pocket for your child? If I have 9 credits and I have a child in my party can I use all 9 credits for adult dining? I think the answer is no, but I know there used to be a day you could do this.

TIA

 

[apostolic4life]

I was going through this thread to find an answer to a question, but gave it about 10 pages into it so I'll ask it here. If its a repeat or an easy question I apologize.

There used to be a day when you could use a childs TS credit as an adult credit. Basically, you had X number of credits on your Key To The World Card and you could use them how you wanted to.

Are the credits separated now by child versus adult, or can you use them as adult and pay out of pocket for your child? If I have 9 credits and I have a child in my party can I use all 9 credits for adult dining? I think the answer is no, but I know there used to be a day you could do this.

TIA

No, they closed that loop hole about two years ago. You were thinking correctly though. The credits used to be lumped together as TS credits and CS credits. Now you will have X # of Adult TS, X # of Child TS, and CS (which are not separated by age. The days of paying OOP for the cheap kids meal and using them for Adult meals is gone.

 

[bicker]

I think it is clear that a lot of folks who are purchasing the Dining Plan this year would have skipped the Dining Plan if the appetizers and tip were still part of the plan and the true value of the plan was reflected in the price, i.e., the approximately $15 per day increase discussed earlier. They have the Deluxe Dining Plan for people willing to pay that much. The standard Dining Plan appeals more to folks looking to pay a lesser amount.

 

[apostolic4life]

I think it is clear that a lot of folks who are purchasing the Dining Plan this year would have skipped the Dining Plan if the appetizers and tip were still part of the plan and the true value of the plan was reflected in the price, i.e., the approximately $15 per day increase discussed earlier. They have the Deluxe Dining Plan for people willing to pay that much. The standard Dining Plan appeals more to folks looking to pay a lesser amount.

A usual bicker, well said!

 

[rusafee1183]

i have a question... i haven't been to WDW since they have had the DDP at all.... the last time I visited was in '99 so, i purchased the dxddp this year for my honeymoon... does everyone think that it is worth the money??? how does it work exactly... i researched, but i'm still a little anxious on WHAT EXACTLY i will have to pay for while i am there... i am definately one of the people who honestly just went with it because it was convenient, not really because it was a great value (although i didn't really research what we would spend just paying per meal) i know appies are included, but is dessert as well? tips are definately not... i know that... but i need help! i'm clueless

 

[apostolic4life]

i have a question... i haven't been to WDW since they have had the DDP at all.... the last time I visited was in '99 so, i purchased the dxddp this year for my honeymoon... does everyone think that it is worth the money??? how does it work exactly... i researched, but i'm still a little anxious on WHAT EXACTLY i will have to pay for while i am there... i am definately one of the people who honestly just went with it because it was convenient, not really because it was a great value (although i didn't really research what we would spend just paying per meal) i know appies are included, but is dessert as well? tips are definately not... i know that... but i need help! i'm clueless

You are not clueless, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on it. The DxDDP includes the following per person:

3 Meal Credits - can be used for either TS or CS; includes appetizer, entree, dessert and non-alcoholic non-specialty drink
2 Snack Credits
1 Refillable Mug
Tips not included

See, you were on the right track..........if you want more info go to this link:

DxDDP

 

[rusafee1183]

thanks for the link, i think i'm just gonna be freaked until i get the hang of it which probably wont be until the last day of my trip

also, one more question...

when you go into a ddp restaurant is anything on the menu included or do they have a special menu or only a specific amount you can order???

i ask because my DFi and myself LOOOOVVVVVEEE sushi, and we are eating at the california grill specifically for their sushi... i don't know exactly how to go about ordering that because it is a la cart (i think)... i don't know what the regulations on WHAT you can order are... is there a link for that or am i just gonna have to feel it out once i get there???

thanks for all the help!

 

[apostolic4life]

thanks for the link, i think i'm just gonna be freaked until i get the hang of it which probably wont be until the last day of my trip

also, one more question...

when you go into a ddp restaurant is anything on the menu included or do they have a special menu or only a specific amount you can order???

i ask because my DFi and myself LOOOOVVVVVEEE sushi, and we are eating at the california grill specifically for their sushi... i don't know exactly how to go about ordering that because it is a la cart (i think)... i don't know what the regulations on WHAT you can order are... is there a link for that or am i just gonna have to feel it out once i get there???

thanks for all the help!

Don't be surprised if the sushi is not included. I have seen some people say they got in with DDP and some who say it was not allowed. It also depends on the restaurant too I guess. Usually, anything on the menu is an option for DDP users. Desserts sometimes have restrictions too; usually dessert trios or desserts for two can't be ordered unless two people want to share.

 

[DVCkidsMOM]

i have a question... i haven't been to WDW since they have had the DDP at all.... the last time I visited was in '99 so, i purchased the dxddp this year for my honeymoon... does everyone think that it is worth the money??? how does it work exactly... i researched, but i'm still a little anxious on WHAT EXACTLY i will have to pay for while i am there... i am definately one of the people who honestly just went with it because it was convenient, not really because it was a great value (although i didn't really research what we would spend just paying per meal) i know appies are included, but is dessert as well? tips are definately not... i know that... but i need help! i'm clueless

If I had "converted" DH to Disney in time for a honeymoon (we hiked the Rockies, which was fab), I would have wanted the DxDDP. I think the DxDDP is the better value for price paid vs. the DDP '08 edition. We're in with the folks who want an appetizer with a nice night out and it would be at a Signature, two credit, restaurant. As far as the third dining credit for the day, we'd probably eat a late breakfast/brunch at a buffet sometimes and sometimes share CS breakfast platters and lunch options. We'd find a way to eat or drink the two snacks each day also if we were paying for DxDDP. As soon as DD is also an adult for dining, we'll do it. Besides, we'll be in less of a hurry to do everything in the park by then and will be willing to take time out for nicer dining. I think you'll really enjoy your honeymoon and the fabulous dining options you will have!
The FairyTale Cuvee by IronHorse Vineyards is lovely, by the way. It is also much less expensive to buy at the resort gift shop and share in the room after dinner than order off the dinner menu...

 

[englishrose47]

I am seriously thinking about DxDDP when I go solo so I can try some 2TS places most days!!

 

[apostolic4life]

I am seriously thinking about DxDDP when I go solo so I can try some 2TS places most days!!

Then you won't have to worry about the whole appetizer/dessert dilemma. I know you always post about wanting the choice with the DDP, but with the DxDDP you won't have to worry about it. This may be a winner for you, and you will get in some signature restaurants. The signature dining is why we went with DxDDP for this years trip.

 

[mefordis]

I've gone back and forth on choosing the ddp vs the dxddp and have finally decided to go with the regular ddp. The main reason is that I may very well not be hungry on a given afternoon/evening. If I choose to forgo my adr, I am out of $$ because I prepaid.

I came to this conclusion after eating lunch at a local restaurant the other day. I came away so full that I didn't eat anything else the rest of the day (just a small snack at night). This will more than likely happen at least once at disney -- even if it's a cs.

So, if you are prone to skipping a meal here and there, beware if you are choosing the dxddp. You could lose $$ on that plan.