Kelly - if you look at the very top of this forum there are 2 threads than run regarding rates for 2004 and one that ran for 2002/2003 - if you start at the beginning you can see that for 2004 some APH rates for PBH were released in early October and the other rates (Ent, Fan, remaining APH) were released in mid-Nov (though they kept telling us "last week of Nov" when we all called to check). Who knows what they'll do this year - but I think that's a good place to get a feel for what might happen for 2005. I keep a good eye on the DIS - someone usually posts as soon as they start getting the discount rates - this year I will also keep my eye on Hotelkingdom.com - they had some of the best rates when they ran a sale, but those rooms went quickly !!