15 Year Extension at OKW for $25 per point

[tinkandme]

This is all so interesting, can anyone go to the meeting on the 24th.
I will be there and would like to attend...No info on the DVC site....any info would be apperciated!
Thanks

 

[pilferk]

This is all so interesting, can anyone go to the meeting on the 24th.
I will be there and would like to attend...No info on the DVC site....any info would be apperciated!
Thanks

One of the Contemporary Resort ballrooms (not sure which one...someone can add that) at 2:00 PM SHARP and 2:05 PM SHARP.

Just realize that you won't be able to comment prior to the voting.

 

[tor]

I'm going to say it again, but perhaps in a more direct way: I think the assessment is coming regardless of whether this "add on" of years happens or not. Look at what happened to the dues at HH this year--that was a real awakening on a lot of levels. I think there is a possibility that they are seeing the same sort of need to generate money that they saw at HH, but not going to put themselves on the hook for the loan like they did at HH. I may be wrong, but if I am going to be paying a substantial assessment, I would prefer to get something of intrinsic value from it. Not sure if we will do the extension, but got to consider it. If not enough people do the extension, I will bet on a substantial member assessment within the next 3-5 years. We'll see.

If you are correct you will get your 15 years and still get hit with an assessment because if these boards are any indication you are in the minority with the extending and this could be a real hardship for some that come up with the money to extend then dont have assessment money left

 

[tor]

1) The Contemp and the Poly are both "up there" in years....yet I'd say they're faring pretty well. Is that a sign that OKW will do the same? No. But it should at least enter into the consideration.

They are fairing well? Im not to sure about that The contemporary is anything but contemporary and didnt they just gut one wing and destroy the other? The poly could use major updating as well

 

[Doctor P]

If you are correct you will get your 15 years and still get hit with an assessment because if these boards are any indication you are in the minority with the extending and this could be a real hardship for some that come up with the money to extend then dont have assessment money left

Maybe, maybe not. There are always ways around that issue in legal terms. BTW, I haven't said that we are taking the assessment. But, I certainly will be kicking myself if my instincts are right. The HH situation has me extremely worried for the other resorts.

 

[pilferk]

They are fairing well? Im not to sure about that The contemporary is any but contemporary and didnt they just gut one wing and destroy the other? The poly could use major updating as well

Have you seen the NEW Contemp rooms? I think contemporary is precisely what I'd call them. They also get pretty much unanimous praise from guests, etc. They're pretty stunning, IMHO. CERTAINLY better than anyone has any right to expect a 35 year old hotel room to look.

And, umm..... isnt' gutting one wing (and the tower, FYI) for refurb PRECISELY what you'd want them to do? That's rather the point...when it needed maintenance, it got it. So, 35 years in...it's in good shape. I'd see that as somewhat encouraging when "figuring" OKW's condition. Not precisely indicative, but encouraging at least.

Removing another wing for a different project has little to do with the "shape" of the resort, it seems, and much to do with "repurposing" that land.

On the poly.....from the majority of the reviews I see on this board, I'll respectfully disagree. I've seen service issues aplenty mentioned, but...the rooms (again, refurbed) and facilities are always rated very highly. That goes with what I've, personally seen, as well.

 

[tinkandme]

One of the Contemporary Resort ballrooms (not sure which one...someone can add that) at 2:00 PM SHARP and 2:05 PM SHARP.

Just realize that you won't be able to comment prior to the voting.

Thank you!

 

[Mtnman44]

Yes, basically you are right. Paying the upfront purchase price is an "investment" against future planned vacation expenses. Normally, you recover the initial cost in vacation savings after the first 7 to 10 years of vacations.

However, in this situation, you get nothing for 35 years, no additional benefit, so it is much harder to run the numbers. there has been a lot of great discussion on this thread but I still think the only realy reason one should consider doing the extention is if you plan on wanting and using OKW & DVC past your current 35 year end date.

Also, I've been thinking about this. I believe this MAY, at least for the next few years, actually INCREASE the resale value of NON-EXTENDED OKW contracts. Crazy? Think about this?
-Assuming many or most do not extend, DVC will have a situation where most of OKW (post 2042) is unsold and owned by them. They will still need to maintain the resort for owners, so they need to fill it up. (They need owners paying maintanence fees).
-Therefore they will need to sell full-length contracts to new owners
-Therefore they will need to snatch up more OKW resales via ROFR so they can resale these to new buyers (and add on the additional 15 years and mark up the price accordingly)
-This will have the effect of increasing ROFR levels, thus raising resale prices.

-Just an idea. Am I off in my thinking?

Didnt we all take a gamble on our vacation habits when we bought in for fifty years? I may not be sure of the place but I am sure of the vacations and you can swap out like any time share.

 

[pilferk]

Also, I've been thinking about this. I believe this MAY, at least for the next few years, actually INCREASE the resale value of NON-EXTENDED OKW contracts. Crazy? Think about this?
-Assuming many or most do not extend, DVC will have a situation where most of OKW (post 2042) is unsold and owned by them. They will still need to maintain the resort for owners, so they need to fill it up. (They need owners paying maintanence fees).
-Therefore they will need to sell full-length contracts to new owners
-Therefore they will need to snatch up more OKW resales via ROFR so they can resale these to new buyers (and add on the additional 15 years and mark up the price accordingly)
-This will have the effect of increasing ROFR levels, thus raising resale prices.

-Just an idea. Am I off in my thinking?

Not a bad theory...though the reasoning might be a (tiny) bit off. Disney is required to pay maintenance fees on the points they own, if I read the POS correctly. Which means they're contributing their fair share to the coffers.

However, obviously they'd MUCH prefer outside owners to do that. I've heard, on the boards, they already own about 96000 OKW points from ROFR. I'm not sure how accurate that number is (or how to verify it) but if it's close....they might not need to raise ROFR. Maybe, though...like I said, I think it's a decent theory.

 

[csmommy]

This is all very interesting & a lot to read! I tried to bring myself up to date, so if this has already been addressed ~ I am sorry.

Why are people talking about liens? I do not see in my letter where it mentions a lien if you do not do this.

This is probably a stupid question, & shows what little I know as a new owner, but why not spend $25 per point to use them now when you want them most? I will certainly be deceased before the "new" expiration date so what would I care about having any points remaining & who would pay the maintenance fees if I am dead?

 

[rayelias]

Have you seen the NEW Contemp rooms? I think contemporary is precisely what I'd call them. They also get pretty much unanimous praise from guests, etc. They're pretty stunning, IMHO. CERTAINLY better than anyone has any right to expect a 35 year old hotel room to look.

And, umm..... isnt' gutting one wing (and the tower, FYI) for refurb PRECISELY what you'd want them to do? That's rather the point...when it needed maintenance, it got it. So, 35 years in...it's in good shape. I'd see that as somewhat encouraging when "figuring" OKW's condition. Not precisely indicative, but encouraging at least.

Removing another wing for a different project has little to do with the "shape" of the resort, it seems, and much to do with "repurposing" that land.

On the poly.....from the majority of the reviews I see on this board, I'll respectfully disagree. I've seen service issues aplenty mentioned, but...the rooms (again, refurbed) and facilities are always rated very highly. That goes with what I've, personally seen, as well.

But, this is (most likely) not what is intended with the "reserves" money from our dues. We will (most likely) NOT see any MAJOR changes/modifications to the resorts during their lifetime - just ongoing maintenance. Case in point... are DVD players in all the OKW rooms yet (studios)? They're $20 at WalMart. DVC isn't ponying up $20 per room for DVD players; do you expect them to spend $100,000 per room to completely rehab them 20 years from now (when they're the same age as Poly & Contemp are now)? ESPECIALLY if they're having a hard time renting them for cash. Really... they're giving free upgrades to people staying at Pop for $79 a night with free dining to OKW studios with daily mousekeeping and free dining. They wouldn't be doing this if OKW was booked with people willing to spend $100 a night, let alone the $260 rack rate (or whatever it is now).

Compare the maintenance schedule of DVC resorts with other Disney resorts. It is my understanding (and I'm sure someone here is more informed than I) that even the values have a better maintenance schedule than DVC.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Yes, basically you are right. Paying the upfront purchase price is an "investment" against future planned vacation expenses. Normally, you recover the initial cost in vacation savings after the first 7 to 10 years of vacations.

However, in this situation, you get nothing for 35 years, no additional benefit, so it is much harder to run the numbers. there has been a lot of great discussion on this thread but I still think the only realy reason one should consider doing the extention is if you plan on wanting and using OKW & DVC past your current 35 year end date.

Also, I've been thinking about this. I believe this MAY, at least for the next few years, actually INCREASE the resale value of NON-EXTENDED OKW contracts. Crazy? Think about this?
-Assuming many or most do not extend, DVC will have a situation where most of OKW (post 2042) is unsold and owned by them. They will still need to maintain the resort for owners, so they need to fill it up. (They need owners paying maintanence fees).
-Therefore they will need to sell full-length contracts to new owners
-Therefore they will need to snatch up more OKW resales via ROFR so they can resale these to new buyers (and add on the additional 15 years and mark up the price accordingly)
-This will have the effect of increasing ROFR levels, thus raising resale prices.

-Just an idea. Am I off in my thinking?

If you are right in your thinking, then those of us who are probably too old to enjoy ANY benefit from the extra years SHOULD do it for the resale benefit. On the other hand, I'd likely gamble that the ROFR price could be higher even for my non extended contract, and might serve the same purpose. I just don't see spending an addtional $10,000 and not having anything to show for it. If I thought I could get a reasonable price for one of my OKW contracts, I'd sell it in a year or two and add points on at AKV instead to get the extra years WITH the extra points. Those of us who are in our 60's are definitely in a different situation than those of you who still have families at home.

 

[MichelleB]

Can someone please tell me what you're talking about when you say "look what happened at HH this year". We own there and I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

[pilferk]

But, this is (most likely) not what is intended with the "reserves" money from our dues. We will (most likely) NOT see any MAJOR changes/modifications to the resorts during their lifetime - just ongoing maintenance. Case in point... are DVD players in all the OKW rooms yet (studios)? They're $20 at WalMart. DVC isn't ponying up $20 per room for DVD players; do you expect them to spend $100,000 per room to completely rehab them 20 years from now (when they're the same age as Poly & Contemp are now)? ESPECIALLY if they're having a hard time renting them for cash. Really... they're giving free upgrades to people staying at Pop for $79 a night with free dining to OKW studios with daily mousekeeping and free dining. They wouldn't be doing this if OKW was booked with people willing to spend $100 a night, let alone the $260 rack rate (or whatever it is now).

Compare the maintenance schedule of DVC resorts with other Disney resorts. It is my understanding (and I'm sure someone here is more informed than I) that even the values have a better maintenance schedule than DVC.

What's intended is that maintenance is ongoing, rather than done in fits and starts. That's true. But I'm not sure you can say that will always be the case, or is going to be the plan forever. We don't know that. We can only surmise.

It's also precisely what occured, more or less, at the Poly and the Contemp for the first 33-ish years of existence. It's also why I said it's ENCOURAGING but not necessarily INDICATIVE of what will happen with the DVC resorts.

On the OKW DVD front....darned if I know. Maybe there hasn't been enough outcry. Maybe they just don't care to budget their replacement until the VCR's fail. But I'm not sure I'd take the replacement (or lack thereof) of one particular piece of technology as an insight into their plans 35 years from now.

I'm not sure what the maintenance schedule is compared to the hotel rooms, either. Anyone know?

 

[Doctor P]

Not a bad theory...though the reasoning might be a (tiny) bit off. Disney is required to pay maintenance fees on the points they own, if I read the POS correctly. Which means they're contributing their fair share to the coffers.

However, obviously they'd MUCH prefer outside owners to do that. I've heard, on the boards, they already own about 96000 OKW points from ROFR. I'm not sure how accurate that number is (or how to verify it) but if it's close....they might not need to raise ROFR. Maybe, though...like I said, I think it's a decent theory.

You did not read the POS correctly. Disney DOES NOT pay maintenance fees on the points they own. Their points are calculated in in deciding what the fees will be, but Disney does not actually pay the fees. They have residual responsibility for the budget.

 

[pilferk]

You did not read the POS correctly. Disney DOES NOT pay maintenance fees on the points they own. Their points are calculated in in deciding what the fees will be, but Disney does not actually pay the fees. They have residual responsibility for the budget.

I thought that was true on the DVD "reserved" 2% but NOT the ROFR'd points.

I'll go back and check....

 

[Doctor P]

Can someone please tell me what you're talking about when you say "look what happened at HH this year". We own there and I have no idea what you're referring to.

I suggest you read your annual report for the resort closely. There was a large adjustment in the reserves budget for which Disney floated a loan to the members. This will be repaid over several years and resulted in a very large increase in dues that will be sustained over several years.

 

[Mtnman44]

Diane,

I really, really, think this contract extention is a poor choice for OKW owners in their later years. Go with your gut. Enjoy what you have, use it, and use your money for enjoying your life. There is no reason for you to extend. Yes, your contract will resell for less that an extended one....so what? As we've discussed, the price difference in 20 years would have to be greater than $30 per point before you even break even. Right now, how does the market value the extra 15 years? Somewhere around $7 per point? Don't worry about it. If you really want/need to have some equity in 10 years, there are tons of other safer investment options for that $10k.

If you are right in your thinking, then those of us who are probably too old to enjoy ANY benefit from the extra years SHOULD do it for the resale benefit. On the other hand, I'd likely gamble that the ROFR price could be higher even for my non extended contract, and might serve the same purpose. I just don't see spending an addtional $10,000 and not having anything to show for it. If I thought I could get a reasonable price for one of my OKW contracts, I'd sell it in a year or two and add points on at AKV instead to get the extra years WITH the extra points. Those of us who are in our 60's are definitely in a different situation than those of you who still have families at home.

 

[pilferk]

You did not read the POS correctly. Disney DOES NOT pay maintenance fees on the points they own. Their points are calculated in in deciding what the fees will be, but Disney does not actually pay the fees. They have residual responsibility for the budget.

Wait, hold on...I just re-read what you wrote.

Isn't the bolded piece basically the same thing? Not exact, but functionally? Their points are used to calculate the budget (so the fees are "figured" in on those points), they don't actually PAY them, but make up the shortfall in actual expenses (which, you'd think. would be close to, if not over, the amount they would have paid in maintenance fees) + budgeted reserves.

For example:

Budget is $10,000. There are 10,000 points. Disney owns 2500 points.

So they collect $7500 in dues, but disney makes up the difference between that $7500 and the acutal expenses + budgeted reserves (around 10k...bit less, bit more). I realize it means they achieve a "discount" if expenses are less than budget....but it means we're not really left "on the hook" for the difference, or for the reserve fund contribution (which is a budget item). Right?

 

[NottaMorningPerson]

I just joined this site today, wanting to get an idea of what DVC members had to say about this. I have to say my husband and I are upset about this whole thing -- the extension, the language of the letter and notice, the short time frame, the assessment -- everything. Now I have a question I could not find the answer to in the posts, although I admit my eyes did get glazed over after a while. The notice states that members "may satisfy their obligation to pay the special assessment by executing a deed (with the formalities required by Florida law) conveying to DVD their Ownership Interest for the period from January 31, 2042, to January 31, 2057." Does anyone know what this requires? For those of us who refuse to extend, are we going to incur fees as a result of having to execute a deed under Florida law? Thanks.