13th WDW Park?

[Figment632]

Ever since I heard about Skyweb Express, I thought that WDW would be a perfect place to build this kind of system, assuming they could clear the technical and regulatory hurdles.

IS this the personal pod system?

 

[Faldred]

IS this the personal pod system?

Yeah. For WDW use, it would have a small set of "fixed" stops (the various parks and water parks, main resort buildings, DTD, TTC) and a "my resort" option keyed to the KTTW for resort guests that would take them to the stop within a resort nearest to their unit (for the more spread-out locations such as CBR or POR).

 

[Figment632]

Yeah. For WDW use, it would have a small set of "fixed" stops (the various parks and water parks, main resort buildings, DTD, TTC) and a "my resort" option keyed to the KTTW for resort guests that would take them to the stop within a resort nearest to their unit (for the more spread-out locations such as CBR or POR).

It's to complicated IMO. What I would do.

MK an EC are already connected.

Connect EC and DHS with TTA a stop infront of DHS and one at the WS entrance to EC then all you have TP worry about is busses for DaK.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

No offense to anyone, but I'll trust the Reedy Creek projections more than Disney discussion boards. I know, they've been wrong before, but that was during the great recession. The economy is improving now so I'm optimistic.

based on what, exactly? I like to hear the defense of this one.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

honestly, i'd say there is a greater chance of the apocalypse in the next 15 years than a wdw 5th gate.

Also i agree with figment. Make those updates, and then we'll be somewhere. Also muppetland please.

+1

 

[Faldred]

It's to complicated IMO. What I would do.

MK an EC are already connected.

Connect EC and DHS with TTA a stop infront of DHS and one at the WS entrance to EC then all you have TP worry about is busses for DaK.

Nah. I imagine a good cognitive systems designer (and I'm sure Imagineering has several people with that background, if not necessarily the title) could make it easy to use. Big honking presets for the main destinations ("push the Cinderella Castle button for the Magic Kingdom", "push the Tree of Life button for Animal Kingdom", "push the [whatever] button to return to your resort" etc.) , with the option to key in a location from a directory for "advanced" users who want to go off the predictable path.

Basically, replace the bus system with an on-demand ride system, without having to deal with schedules or the "does this bus go to XXX?" questions.

It would be interesting to see simulations on how well such a system would handle ridership loads, especially at park closing times.

 

[ChrisFL]

Nah. I imagine a good cognitive systems designer (and I'm sure Imagineering has several people with that background, if not necessarily the title) could make it easy to use. Big honking presets for the main destinations ("push the Cinderella Castle button for the Magic Kingdom", "push the Tree of Life button for Animal Kingdom", "push the [whatever] button to return to your resort" etc.) , with the option to key in a location from a directory for "advanced" users who want to go off the predictable path.

Basically, replace the bus system with an on-demand ride system, without having to deal with schedules or the "does this bus go to XXX?" questions.

It would be interesting to see simulations on how well such a system would handle ridership loads, especially at park closing times.

I agree, I'd love to see simulations on that as well

 

[fannatic]

Where do I get that the economy is improving? Um - do you watch the news or the stock market?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Where do I get that the economy is improving? Um - do you watch the news or the stock market?

And if the stock market was the only indicator...or even the most important one...i would agree.

And what news? i haven't seen anything resembling that in about 20 years...thanks to Al Gore and his wretched internet

Oh yeah...and politics has become irrepairably tied to money and the election cycle...which means you can't actually even trust the horse's mouth.

This is a fight i would LOVE to lose...but i don't think its going to happen. CNN just today (for what they're worth) actually bothered to report on the new destruction of the housing market...which is real by every measure they can take. Gee...bet that might screw a few things up.

And my favorite...the jobs report...where close to a million people are cycled off the unemployment tally each month because they are out of benefits...and then become lumped with TENS of millions in a growing lost generation of labor and skill...but no need to measure that. I did see last summer where the US DOL "considered" altering how they track unemployment...how quaint.

My point is that the rough waters haven't parted just yet...in fact, using a weather example - the USS USA might have just been sailing through the eye of the hurricane for the last 18 months or so...and we still have to get to the outskirts of the storm.

Remember also that those that lost the most (in dollar amount) with the crash of '08 control so much wealth- and with it - political power that they have had no other goals that to regain it through the stock, bond, and commodity markets and figure out a way to secure it better than they had going forward. When that is complete...they won't care if the damn breaks again. The evidence was practically on Day 1...when the financial sector was given a blank check from BOTH political parties to prop them up without a word of discussion...

when's the last time they agreed on anything?
That is kinda disconcerting to the average observer.

 

[fannatic]

Whatever...now back to Disney news.

 

[Figment632]

Whatever...now back to Disney news.

Exactly and if you call this and improved economy that is scary.

 

[pilferk]

Just my 2 cents on the "improving economy":

I disagree with those that are saying it hasn't improved....though I think that's a game of semantics. I don't think there is any argument the economy hasn't gotten BETTER than it was, at it's low point. Just about every economic indicator shows improvement (even the ones mentioned by lockedoutlogic show upward trending). Granted, our economy is not nearly as strong as it was before (no matter what the stock market would lead you to beileve).

The questions are: Will the economy continue to improve and is it stable enough to support continued growth.

I think the answer to both those questions remain to be seen...but the indicators aren't looking so good. The reports about the housing market dip are concerning (since most of the populations primary "source" of wealth is there home)...but housing can be a fickle indicator in short spurts. I need a little more data before I'll really worry..but only a little (say, another 90 days). There are LOTS of factors effecting it (some of which are weather and opportunity in the parts of the country...not to mention the gradual rise in interest rates, which might backslide). But even accounting for that....it doesn't look good.

The fact (as lockedoutlogic mentions) that our "benchmark" unemployment figures don't take into account (at least not in the sound bytes...department of labor has better figures...but even they are not perfect) those who are underemployed or no longer looking for work makes them sketchy at best. THOSE numbers (the number of underemployed and no longer looking) aren't dropping as fast as the "benchmark" rates. And, at the end of the day, jobs rule all.

I think we may see another quarter (or two) in the near future of "negative economic growth", meaning possibly a double dip recession. I doubt, though, we'll see "the bottom" that we saw in the last recession. The somewhat good news is that consumer spending is up right now and there's no real denying that what ends up fueling REAL economic recovery is consumer spending linked to increased demand for goods which leads to a need for more labor (and thus, jobs). IF that effort gets more traction, we'll likely ride out any bumps in the housing market. Much of the rest of what's being done, politically (by BOTH sides) is basically smoke and mirrors.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Disney Conversation.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Whatever...now back to Disney news.

the state of the national and world economy is intertwined with the future of Disney...but hey - let's have more of the "Tell me about POR!" type questions

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just my 2 cents on the "improving economy":

I disagree with those that are saying it hasn't improved....though I think that's a game of semantics. I don't think there is any argument the economy hasn't gotten BETTER than it was, at it's low point. Just about every economic indicator shows improvement (even the ones mentioned by lockedoutlogic show upward trending). Granted, our economy is not nearly as strong as it was before (no matter what the stock market would lead you to beileve).

The questions are: Will the economy continue to improve and is it stable enough to support continued growth.

I think the answer to both those questions remain to be seen...but the indicators aren't looking so good. The reports about the housing market dip are concerning (since most of the populations primary "source" of wealth is there home)...but housing can be a fickle indicator in short spurts. I need a little more data before I'll really worry..but only a little (say, another 90 days). There are LOTS of factors effecting it (some of which are weather and opportunity in the parts of the country...not to mention the gradual rise in interest rates, which might backslide). But even accounting for that....it doesn't look good.

The fact (as lockedoutlogic mentions) that our "benchmark" unemployment figures don't take into account (at least not in the sound bytes...department of labor has better figures...but even they are not perfect) those who are underemployed or no longer looking for work makes them sketchy at best. THOSE numbers (the number of underemployed and no longer looking) aren't dropping as fast as the "benchmark" rates. And, at the end of the day, jobs rule all.

I think we may see another quarter (or two) in the near future of "negative economic growth", meaning possibly a double dip recession. I doubt, though, we'll see "the bottom" that we saw in the last recession. The somewhat good news is that consumer spending is up right now and there's no real denying that what ends up fueling REAL economic recovery is consumer spending linked to increased demand for goods which leads to a need for more labor (and thus, jobs). IF that effort gets more traction, we'll likely ride out any bumps in the housing market. Much of the rest of what's being done, politically (by BOTH sides) is basically smoke and mirrors.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Disney Conversation.

you make a great argument...

my take is that even though we aren't at the "bottom"...we are going to have a tough time recentering the economy when it needs it going forward. that could lead to a fundamental shift in how the life on "main street" is lived in this county. This has been happening for decades and could be accelerated at any significant development.

Basically, everything i've seen, heard, and read has lead me to believe that there is an economic shell game being played from the top down over the last few years - in particular - and I don't see how its sustainable. We still have the problem of upper level greed and the post industrial society, and that is a bad mixture.

My final thing on this is that the political effects from the economy have gotten so heightened - particulary during the 2006 and 2010 congressional cycle - that now its going to become and even bigger problem than it has been for about 100 years. And that is a huge issue.

Back to fastpass now

 

[fannatic]

Granted, I'm not an economist, but those who are claim that the economy has been growing since the recession ended in 2009. It's not growing by much, but it is expected to continue to grow. Sure most people can't feel the effects yet, but that doesn't change the fact of the growth.

 

[Metsoskil]

Granted, I'm not an economist, but those who are claim that the economy has been growing since the recession ended in 2009. It's not growing by much, but it is expected to continue to grow. Sure most people can't feel the effects yet, but that doesn't change the fact of the growth.

Yes, it's grown by a small amount. But this is due to massive amounts of money being pumped in by the government. This isn't sustainable. What happens when that stops?

Wow. This thread has gone askew from the original topic. I think park #13 will be ESPN themed. "Disney's ESPN Wide World of Illegal Performance Enhancing Drugs Land" - DESPNWWIPDL for short.

 

[david balliet]

What do you think anyone would have said back in 1971 if you would have told them that in 35 or so years ( not sure when AK opened) there would be 4 major and 2 smaller parks at WDW ? I am not a CM or connected to anyone in the know, but 50 years before another park? I cant imagine that there are not plans already working towards a new park or parks. Just my opinion.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

@Metsoskil

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What do you think anyone would have said back in 1971 if you would have told them that in 35 or so years ( not sure when AK opened) there would be 4 major and 2 smaller parks at WDW ? I am not a CM or connected to anyone in the know, but 50 years before another park? I cant imagine that there are not plans already working towards a new park or parks. Just my opinion.

It will be a significant amount of time before they build a new gate...and here's a couple of reasons why:

1. The construction costs associated with new parks and infrastructure has risen dramatically...a new park would now mean 2 BILLION dollars and above and that is a ton of capital...particularly when the domestic and world economies are shifting and with it that kind of credit is hard come by...
Also...florida isn't kissing the can of disney like it did in the 60's, 70's, 80's and even 90's...they will not give carte blanche to a company that demands alot and while is the biggest revenue generator in the state- has made attempts to shed workforce and reduce the amount of cash re-invested back into the local and state economy while hiking up the costs and transporting those revenues elsewhere...including to foreign markets to replace american labor and products.
2. This is the biggest one IMHO...there is not enough labor in the central florida area to allow for massive expansion. Disney has already run through the cheap labor pool and had to reduce their standards to almost nothing to just keep the operation running. So now they will continue to try and streamline the labor, eliminating positions wherever possible and outsourcing...which looks bad. And even if you're pro-disney on this one...their labor costs and non-monetary compensation (our world class for profit healthcare corporations) escalate on a ridiculous scale...even at minimum wage.
3. Its already the most popular vacation spot on earth...controlling the vast majority of the market in orlando...and they get about 50 million people in a year. Unless they get a 15 million visitor a year bump (my guess) for at least 10 or so years...their statistical analysis is telling them that more new parks does not yield enough financial benefit. And it is probably right.


now...in a nutshell...it makes no sense to build more parks...they already have a smallish complimentary park in the Studios and an underperforming Zoo that's a tough sell and has high overhead sitting there not pulling their weight in the swamp...
But...maybe...somebody has the guts to do what they have promised the last few years and actually flesh out what they've got...which is much easier and more effective in the short and medium term.

I would hope...i don't think necessarily it will happen anytime soon...but here's to hoping

 

[Faldred]

I agree that a 5th major gate is out of the question for the foreseeable future. It makes much more economic sense to expand the existing parks a little at a time, adding a bit more capacity here and there, and continuing to build more on the resorts/DVC side if they start regularly reaching full capacity.

DHS and AK both need expanding as they simply do not have enough in the way of attractions to entice a broad spectrum of guests. Epcot isn't using all of its current infrastructure, and still has some room to expand. MK might have the toughest time finding room to expand, but it's a fairly "complete" park anyway, with a variety of options.

Finish those expansions, fill those parks and have the associated resort capacity met, then (and only then) start seriously looking at building a 5th gate. And that's not likely going to be anytime in the next 20 years.