.

[SwedishMeatball]

Now that you've given more information and explained it - it makes sense. You made it sound like at first that no one discussed concerns with a parent and that had me confused. You didn't qualify what your position in the school was and that although you weren't allow to discuss it with parents - you referred them to specialist who could discuss when appropriate with parents. That's different that I'm not allow to discuss it. Can you see where I'm coming from?

I've been in districts where parents were involved in the initial SAT meeting and parents weren't involved in the SAT meeting - I personally think it's better to have the parents there because you can gain more information from them but to each his own. As long as teachers and districts are trying to help kids and provide services when they qualify - that's what's important. District procedures aren't.

Sure.

One thing that she stressed to us was how sensitive some parents can be when approached with this subject. Although I never experienced any negative reactions, I understood the benefit to presenting it from a team of professionals. Also, it ensured a teacher's credibility because if you were to make an educated guess and then after testing it be shown you were mistaken, you would likely lose the confidence of the parents. After the initial screening and everyone having their ducks in a row, it was definitely benificial to get input from the parents before proceeding on to the next level of testing.

To the OP, sorry if we have taken your thread off topic as I really don't think this applies in your situation. I do believe that you are more free to discuss concerns with the parents under those circumstances. I don't know what the procedures are in your state, but perhaps you could recommend the child's classroom teacher refer her if the guidelines are similar.

 

[SandiH]

Sure.

One thing that she stressed to us was how sensitive some parents can be when approached with this subject. Although I never experienced any negative reactions, I understood the benefit to presenting it from a team of professionals. Also, it ensured a teacher's credibility because if you were to make an educated guess and then after testing it be shown you were mistaken, you would likely lose the confidence of the parents. After the initial screening and everyone having their ducks in a row, it was definitely benificial to get input from the parents before proceeding on to the next level of testing.

To the OP, sorry if we have taken your thread off topic as I really don't think this applies in your situation. I do believe that you are more free to discuss concerns with the parents under those circumstances. I don't know what the procedures are in your state, but perhaps you could recommend the child's classroom teacher refer her if the guidelines are similar.

I definately see why your district does it that way. Makes sense.

To the OP as well, sorry to have hijacked your thread. I do stand by what I said earlier and seek out more information from the parents.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Pembo]

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[tw1nsmom]

Hey, I just followed the rules of my district. I couldn't do nearly as good a job of explaining it as our director did, who was a very dedicated and concerned teacher, but it did have to do with liability concerns. We were instructed to refer to the Spec Ed department and they would then conduct observations and schedule a conference with the parents, which would include the classroom teacher. I was comfortable with that the few times that I had concerns. I never had a parent upset that I didn't approach them before consulting with people qualified to make the determination. In the couple instances that parents approached me first, I would explain our district procedures for referal and they were always understanding. I actually think it was a good policy.

Actually your district may be skirting the law if not outright breaking it. If they use that observation as any part of the evaluation process, they must get parent approval. Also, if a parent were to discover that a teacher had concerns and the school observation team dismissed them, they could use that in legal actions against the school. Taking the parent out of the process at any point is breaking federal law.

I would also be careful as a teacher that you don't open yourself up to legal problems. Because of widespread abuses of the federal laws by school districts some special education advocacy agencies are beginning to look at teachers more closely. What I mean by that, is that they are proposing that if a teacher knows that she/he is breaking federal law, even if it's due to following district rules, then that teacher should be held legally accountable. Some feel this would force the districts hand in that teachers would be unwilling to put themselves in legal jeapardy by following district rules that they know are illegal. I'm worried that this is too drastic a step, but it is something that's being discussed.

Also, their worries about being forced to pay for outside evaluations are unfounded, unless of course they're using this policy to keep from providing services to all the children who truly qualify. A parent can't get an IEE paid for by the district if they don't first allow the district to formally evaluate their child. The only way that this would become an issue is if the teacher expressed concerns to the parents. The parents requested, in writing, an evaluation, and the school refused (against federal law...parents can refer their own children for evaluation and the school must provide one). If the parents then went and paid for an independent evaluation and it was found that their child did in fact have a learning disability, then the parents could request that the school pay for that evaluation. The only other way for a school to pay for an IEE is for the parents to disagree with a school evaluation and request payment for a pending or already performed IEE. Either way, it seems as though your district is trying to keep the parents out of the loop.

As for the OP, if the parents were receptive, I would talk to them about possibly having the child referred for evaluation. Let them know that if they request an evaluation, in writing (it should go to the head of the district's special education department), the school must provide one. They actually only have 60 business days upon receipt of the referral to perform the evaluation and hild a CSE meeting to determine if the child is eligible for services and what those services, if any, will be. Of course, not too many schools live up to the timeline.


A lot of what I wrote sounds harsh. I'm actually a great supporter of my kids teachers. I've just seen them put in situations where they were both misinformed by the district as to what the laws were as well as forced to do things the teachers actually knew were against the law. It angers me that districts put teachers in these types of positions. I've had more than one teacher/therapist whisper to me something that was happening that shouldn't be and what I could do to stop it. If they had tried stopping it themselves they would have been fired or at least in major trouble.

 

[SandiH]

Actually your district may be skirting the law if not outright breaking it. If they use that observation as any part of the evaluation process, they must get parent approval. Also, if a parent were to discover that a teacher had concerns and the school observation team dismissed them, they could use that in legal actions against the school. Taking the parent out of the process at any point is breaking federal law.

Good point! As I was drifting to sleep and still thinking of this thread (yeah, I have no life - J/K) I realized that our parents do come to the SAT meeting at at my current school and that's where we had more red flags presented so we decided to continue with the process. You are right about needing permission to use an official, specialist observation in the process and parents would need permission for it. I agree that a teacher is obligated to talk with a parent especially if the district discounts the teachers concerns. A teacher knows what's typically developing and what's not.

To the OP - I'm glad you've opened dialog with the parents and I think that the parents should be talking with the district and requesting an evaluation, have the parents put it in writing. The district then has so many days (time lines keep changing, not sure what it currently is) to meet with the team, including parents, to discuss the referral.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Actually your district may be skirting the law if not outright breaking it. If they use that observation as any part of the evaluation process, they must get parent approval. Also, if a parent were to discover that a teacher had concerns and the school observation team dismissed them, they could use that in legal actions against the school. Taking the parent out of the process at any point is breaking federal law.

I would also be careful as a teacher that you don't open yourself up to legal problems. Because of widespread abuses of the federal laws by school districts some special education advocacy agencies are beginning to look at teachers more closely. What I mean by that, is that they are proposing that if a teacher knows that she/he is breaking federal law, even if it's due to following district rules, then that teacher should be held legally accountable. Some feel this would force the districts hand in that teachers would be unwilling to put themselves in legal jeapardy by following district rules that they know are illegal. I'm worried that this is too drastic a step, but it is something that's being discussed.

Also, their worries about being forced to pay for outside evaluations are unfounded, unless of course they're using this policy to keep from providing services to all the children who truly qualify. A parent can't get an IEE paid for by the district if they don't first allow the district to formally evaluate their child. The only way that this would become an issue is if the teacher expressed concerns to the parents. The parents requested, in writing, an evaluation, and the school refused (against federal law...parents can refer their own children for evaluation and the school must provide one). If the parents then went and paid for an independent evaluation and it was found that their child did in fact have a learning disability, then the parents could request that the school pay for that evaluation. The only other way for a school to pay for an IEE is for the parents to disagree with a school evaluation and request payment for a pending or already performed IEE. Either way, it seems as though your district is trying to keep the parents out of the loop.

As for the OP, if the parents were receptive, I would talk to them about possibly having the child referred for evaluation. Let them know that if they request an evaluation, in writing (it should go to the head of the district's special education department), the school must provide one. They actually only have 60 business days upon receipt of the referral to perform the evaluation and hild a CSE meeting to determine if the child is eligible for services and what those services, if any, will be. Of course, not too many schools live up to the timeline.


A lot of what I wrote sounds harsh. I'm actually a great supporter of my kids teachers. I've just seen them put in situations where they were both misinformed by the district as to what the laws were as well as forced to do things the teachers actually knew were against the law. It angers me that districts put teachers in these types of positions. I've had more than one teacher/therapist whisper to me something that was happening that shouldn't be and what I could do to stop it. If they had tried stopping it themselves they would have been fired or at least in major trouble.

Not something that is an issue for me any longer as I don't live or teach in Missouri. Those were the guidelines at the time and we never had any issues arise. No idea what they are now or if they've changed.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Twinsmom is correct!!!

The school can NOT initiate any Special Ed evaluations or services WITHOUT the parents permission. This is mandated by Federal Law (IDEA) And, this was very specifically explained to me when I went to request services for my DS. The reason for this is that a teacher, or the school, can not place little junior in special ed 'just because'. (behaviour, etc...)

 

[Wishing on a star]

Pembo, are you employed or contracted with the school district???

If not, it should not be legal or appropropriate for the teacher to discuss a child with anyone except for that child's custodial parent.

 

[Wishing on a star]

She got herself all worked up, then was crying for me NOT to call her parents, by the time she left she was crying for me TO tutor her and NOT to leave the library.

The child did NOT want to call her parents, and did not want to go home with her parents????

Do I see another big red-flag here?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Twinsmom is correct!!!

The school can NOT initiate any Special Ed evaluations or services WITHOUT the parents permission. This is mandated by Federal Law (IDEA) And, this was very specifically explained to me when I went to request services for my DS. The reason for this is that a teacher, or the school, can not place little junior in special ed 'just because'. (behaviour, etc...)

The only thing we were allowed to do before calling in the parents to have them sign off on the next step in the process was an observation in which the teacher fills out a request form and then someone from Spec Ed would come into the classroom to observe the student. I don't think they have ever been allowed to perform any other type of evaluation and certainly not try to place them for services.

 

[tkd lisa]

Back to the original topic, that could have been my DD.

She is now 15, but she has always gotten frustrated VERY easily. She is ADHD, and in some areas she's EXTREMELY bright. For her, anything that didn't come to her immediately created a mental roadblock. Since she did grasp difficult concepts almost intuitively, anything that required disciplined thought process just sent her into a tizzy. Add in the ADHD, and you were almost guaranteed a meltdown.

Thankfully I was able to tutor her myself, so those meltdowns happened at home. She was under the care of an excellent child psychologist, and we worked a lot on coping skills (for her and for me!)

She has "mostly" grown out of them now. I don't have much actual advise beyond what's been mentioned already. Talk to the parents and look for warning signs and ways to divert. Positive reward seemed to work well. Ignoring the negative behavior (i.e. she would stay at the kitchen table alone until she was ready to work again), then picking back up where we left off.

As a tutor, you can decide if this child is "worth the effort" for you. As a parent, I just had to live through it.

 

[tw1nsmom]

The only thing we were allowed to do before calling in the parents to have them sign off on the next step in the process was an observation in which the teacher fills out a request form and then someone from Spec Ed would come into the classroom to observe the student. I don't think they have ever been allowed to perform any other type of evaluation and certainly not try to place them for services.

But, you see it could easily be argued that the person from the special education department is a specialist of some sort and the observation is a form of evaluation. Actually, classroom observation is ussually a part of all official evaluations. Besides, if a teacher and or parent has concerns (with parental consent), it should be enough to go ahead with the evaluations. They're the ones who see the child every day. Also, there are many developmental/learning disabilities that take a specialist to diagnose. Just because an administrator from the special ed department or even a special ed. teacher observes the child, it doesn't mean they're familiar with a specific disability the child may have.

Every teacher my DS has had, as well as his principal has said they think he behaves/learns just like all the other kids his age...during the first few weeks of school. As time goes on they begin to see the difficulties/learning differences. It's difficult to see the problem through brief observation. As time goes on and you get to know him it becomes more apparent. Besides, nobody in his school had a clue about Nonverbal Learning Disability (DS's diagnosis) until I gave them information, they read his formal evaluations, and had an in-service given by DS's neuropsychologist.

I'm glad that you're no longer being put in that position now that you're out of the district.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

But, you see it could easily be argued that the person from the special education department is a specialist of some sort and the observation is a form of evaluation. Actually, classroom observation is ussually a part of all official evaluations. Besides, if a teacher and or parent has concerns (with parental consent), it should be enough to go ahead with the evaluations. They're the ones who see the child every day. Also, there are many developmental/learning disabilities that take a specialist to diagnose. Just because an administrator from the special ed department or even a special ed. teacher observes the child, it doesn't mean they're familiar with a specific disability the child may have.

Every teacher my DS has had, as well as his principal has said they think he behaves/learns just like all the other kids his age...during the first few weeks of school. As time goes on they begin to see the difficulties/learning differences. It's difficult to see the problem through brief observation. As time goes on and you get to know him it becomes more apparent. Besides, nobody in his school had a clue about Nonverbal Learning Disability (DS's diagnosis) until I gave them information, they read his formal evaluations, and had an in-service given by DS's neuropsychologist.

I'm glad that you're no longer being put in that position now that you're out of the district.

I don't know what the procedures/laws are now. The process has to start somewhere and documentation is going to be a part of that. At the time, an initial observation didn't require anything other than a teacher or parent request. I don't know what the guidelines are now. I think the most important thing is that everyone is concerned about the best interest of the student. In a situation in which you described, parental input would be crucial, as well as the cooperation of the school to obtain the appropriate means of diagnosis.

 

[Pembo]

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[lajones81]

Personally, for me, no amount of money would make tutoring a child with temper tantrums worth it.