13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[DisneyJamieCA]

I am also fairly close in proximity to this hospital and the news reported yesterday or today that she needs surgery to prepare for transfer (inserting a feeding tube is one) and the hospital is refusing to do it because operating a dead person doesn't make sense. She can't be transferred without the surgery because they place that has agreed to take her doesn't have a surgical set up.

I can't imagine the immense grief her parents are in and I hesitate to judge because I don't know what I'd do in the situation, but the logical outsider part of me wishes they would understand what they are doing to her by prolonging this and how many they could help if they donated organs...and if somebody needs the PICU/ICU bed she currently using.

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

I have talked to my own children about donating for them if anything ever happened to one of them. I would never donate their organs if they weren't ok with it. But this family may not even have the option to donate her organs if they leave her on life support very much longer.

It seems like a dead end if the current hospital will not do the surgery for the feeding tube but the long term care center won't take her without the feeding tube.

 

[Kae]

Sad! And I don't think insurance will step up since time of death on death certificate will be when she was declared brain dead.

I did not know that.

Kae

 

[CF'er]

Can someone clear this up for me? I thought I read where she had woken up from surgery and eaten ice cream. It was after she was transferred to the ICU that the massive hemorrhage happened. Now in my experience tonsillectomy does not get you into the ICU. Were there pre-existing conditions? Other earlier complications? Or am I dreaming?

A sad situation indeed and I have been there. There is no good outcome or answer.

 

[nym4588]

What a horrible thing. I can't imagine taking your kid in for a routine procedure and having this be the outcome. I really feel for the family.

 

[MSLRAC]

Can someone clear this up for me? I thought I read where she had woken up from surgery and eaten ice cream. It was after she was transferred to the ICU that the massive hemorrhage happened. Now in my experience tonsillectomy does not get you into the ICU. Were there pre-existing conditions? Other earlier complications? Or am I dreaming? A sad situation indeed and I have been there. There is no good outcome or answer.

I had read the same thing. She woke up and was talking and eating ice cream and then the gramma (who is a nurse) noticed she was bleeding a lot. They moved her to ICU and things went downhill very quickly.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

The whole situation is just tragic.

I think her parents will eventually accept that she's brain dead and pull life support but they just need time for it to sink in. At this point I think they are just hoping they'll wake up and it's all just been a bad dream.

I can't imagine having to make such a massive decision about this, her parents are probably still in shock that something like this could even happen.

 

[keri125]

I read on another site where someone claiming to be a nurse said that no, that someone who is brain dead can't be kept alive long on life support. that the organs start to shut down and everything start to go awry fast

I have no idea if that is true or not

This is what we were told when my ex-husband passed away from a sudden cardiac arrest a year ago. The dr said that once the brain is gone the other organs shut down pretty quickly. The message I got is that you can keep them on life support forever, but to no good use. We removed life support 4 days after he collapsed and were able to donate his eyes, liver, kidneys, and skin cells. I still get updates from the donor organizations on how the recipients are doing. I put them away in a file for my son to read when he is old enough. (He's 8 now.) I cannot imagine what those parents are going through.

 

[bcla]

Can someone clear this up for me? I thought I read where she had woken up from surgery and eaten ice cream. It was after she was transferred to the ICU that the massive hemorrhage happened. Now in my experience tonsillectomy does not get you into the ICU. Were there pre-existing conditions? Other earlier complications? Or am I dreaming?

A sad situation indeed and I have been there. There is no good outcome or answer.

She just suffered from massive bleeding all of a sudden and then quickly had a heart attack. Apparently that was how the oxygen got cut off to her brain.

The thing about the family is that they have a lot of faith that she's going to make it. The one thing I remember was that one member of the family said the reason why they didn't want to pull the plug was that "God will put the spark back in her brain" if they can just keep her body alive long enough. The fact is they may even understand that there's no brain activity, but they want to believe that God will provide them a miracle to restore this girl's brain if they show enough faith.

 

[JillyBean1899]

This is why my mother has explicit instructions to ask the doctor 2 questions if I'm ever in this situation.

#1: Will she be able to ride roller coasters?

#2: Will she be able to wipe her own butt?

If the answer to either of those is "no", then pull the plug. I do *NOT* want to be stuck in a body where I can't even scratch an itch that I get. Paraplegic, OK. Quadriplegic, not OK. I don't want someone to have to take care of me 24/7, just out of guilt about "keeping me around".

 

[bcla]

This is why my mother has explicit instructions to ask the doctor 2 questions if I'm ever in this situation.

#1: Will she be able to ride roller coasters?

#2: Will she be able to wipe her own butt?

If the answer to either of those is "no", then pull the plug. I do *NOT* want to be stuck in a body where I can't even scratch an itch that I get. Paraplegic, OK. Quadriplegic, not OK. I don't want someone to have to take care of me 24/7, just out of guilt about "keeping me around".

Again - not trying to get into a religious discussion, but this family is wired to believe that God will take care of them. They might even believe that their God could reverse anything that happens to them with enough faith and given enough time to apply that faith.

 

[Disney Doll]

True brain death will begin the breakdown of the body within a certain period of time. May take a little longer with this child because she IS a child.

Very sad situation. I am sure the family needs time to come to grips with it and I admire their faith but I think they're praying for the wrong thing.

From an ethical standpoint, it puts the hospital in a tough position. It is wrong to operate on an effectively dead person.

Sad all around.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well, I imagine they are in shock at the moment. Having your loved one go in for minor surgery and then end up in this situation was not on the agenda.

Can the family ask for an autopsy in order to reveal any abnormalities with the surgical procedure or the girl itself? That would be where my interest would be as a parent.

Truly a heart breaking thing.

 

[Missy1961]

Taking my ball and going home.

I'm not surprised.

 

[lizzi6692]

Well, I imagine they are in shock at the moment. Having your loved one go in for minor surgery and then end up in this situation was not on the agenda.

Can the family ask for an autopsy in order to reveal any abnormalities with the surgical procedure or the girl itself? That would be where my interest would be as a parent.

Truly a heart breaking thing.

They would be dumb not to.

 

[mnrose]

She just suffered from massive bleeding all of a sudden and then quickly had a heart attack. Apparently that was how the oxygen got cut off to her brain.

The thing about the family is that they have a lot of faith that she's going to make it. The one thing I remember was that one member of the family said the reason why they didn't want to pull the plug was that "God will put the spark back in her brain" if they can just keep her body alive long enough. The fact is they may even understand that there's no brain activity, but they want to believe that God will provide them a miracle to restore this girl's brain if they show enough faith.

I understand that they have great faith in God. Why isn't it also possible that God has decided to call this girl to heaven for His own reasons and they are simply ignoring His will? I simply do not get why the automatic impulse is that God wants to work a miracle. We all know that young people die tragically all the time. Somehow, some way, this is also part of God's plan.

 

[hereyago]

Truly heartbreaking for this family to go through. I do believe they are in denial, but honestly, who can say without doubt that faced with the same situation they wouldn't be as well? Grief has many different levels.

Has anyone heard why this happened? I saw on the mom on an interview the other day and she said the hospital hasn't told her why this all happened, maybe they have and she just couldn't "hear" it.

It is just a very sad situation.

 

[bdcp]

Taking my ball and going home.

Why? Because people answered your original question and you decided to change what you wanted and we answered that but you didn't like the answers?

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Truly heartbreaking for this family to go through. I do believe they are in denial, but honestly, who can say without doubt that faced with the same situation they wouldn't be as well? Grief has many different levels. Has anyone heard why this happened? I saw on the mom on an interview the other day and she said the hospital hasn't told her why this all happened, maybe they have and she just couldn't "hear" it. It is just a very sad situation.

I don't know how to post this without getting flamed, but I will try. The girl apparently had several issues and the family was advised that the surgery would improve them. I suspect that she wasn't really healthy enough for the surgery. The family keeps saying they want to know why this happened, but have been advised that the longer she is on life support, the less likely the autopsy will be able to tell them why she hemmoraged.

 

[bdcp]

This is why my mother has explicit instructions to ask the doctor 2 questions if I'm ever in this situation.

#1: Will she be able to ride roller coasters?

#2: Will she be able to wipe her own butt?

If the answer to either of those is "no", then pull the plug. I do *NOT* want to be stuck in a body where I can't even scratch an itch that I get. Paraplegic, OK. Quadriplegic, not OK. I don't want someone to have to take care of me 24/7, just out of guilt about "keeping me around".

Those aren't the two questions most Doctor's would expect as they don't really show quality of life. Being brain dead is a totally different situation than having to have someone help you in your day to day care. A lot of seniors in nursing homes would say no to both of your questions, but they are not in a situation where the plug would be pulled. It's why our living wills are very specific that if we are ever in the situation where we need nutirition, but aren't brain dead they are not to starve us to death. That is God's decision. Brain dead on the other hand, that decision has already been made as machines are actually breathing for the individual and just keeping the body alive as the person is already gone.

I do think this family will see reality, but not before hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent on legal and medical fees. As several of us have said, her family really is in denial.