13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Mama Mouse]

I have to wonder if there is NO ONE in the family's camp that is trying to help them process and truly accept what is really happening here. Some family member who sees things differently or, perhaps, some religious counsel could help. Surely they must see how this family is now being exploited and misled. They are not doing this poor girl any favors. It's heartbreaking to be in this position. I've been there. It will hurt forever but I truly believe nothing will change the fact that she is gone.

 

[SLP958]

Now I am tossing out my considerations for the grieving family.

These people are straight up crazy.

Hospitals don't let doctors who don't have privileges just walk in and operate. This whole family is just over the deep end of ridiculous.

At this time my sympathies go to the memory of this poor girl and the hospital staff these people are making miserable.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Now I am tossing out my considerations for the grieving family.

These people are straight up crazy.

Hospitals don't let doctors who don't have privileges just walk in and operate. This whole family is just over the deep end of ridiculous.

At this time my sympathies go to the memory of this poor girl and the hospital staff these people are making miserable.

How compassionate of you.

 

[Disney Doll]

This is a sad sad situation. The saddest part being the lack of dignity being given this child based on her family's actions.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

The family keeps saying she responds to her mother's voice and touch. Has there been any proof of this?

 

[CF'er]

So where are Jesse Jackson and Rev Al during all this? Seems they would be all over this. Supporting the family and all. And I really don't see why Jan 7th is any different than last Mon or any other day. They let her go that long why not forever?

 

[SLP958]

How compassionate of you.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt until the latest developments. Compassion is great until you lose all sense of logic and what is for the greater good.

 

[mom2rtk]

I wish this family had a close member of the clergy who could hold their hands through this very difficult time and accept what has to happen.

 

[sunshinehighway]

The family keeps saying she responds to her mother's voice and touch. Has there been any proof of this?

No. I don't think there has.

I understand people are looking at this from a clinical view but I think they are failing to see the heartbroken family. They are not looking at a dead body in the way we normally think of death. They are looking at their little girl and she's warm, breathing (although through a machine), and that monitor is showing a heartbeat. What they are looking at is probably no different than families who have loved ones in vegetative states. As a non medical person it is difficult for me to understand the differences between brain death and other things that would cause a person to be in a similar state. How many families keep loved ones with little chance of recovery in such states for years and years? The family is not crazy or anything else, they are facing unimaginable grieve and are hanging on to that hope so many other families do. It's unrealistic but many things are.
Some people in this thread act like this family is Norman Bates with his mother's body.

 

[mom2rtk]

No. I don't think there has.

I understand people are looking at this from a clinical view but I think they are failing to see the heartbroken family. They are not looking at a dead body in the way we normally think of death. They are looking at their little girl and she's warm, breathing (although through a machine), and that monitor is showing a heartbeat. What they are looking at is probably no different than families who have loved ones in vegetative states. As a non medical person it is difficult for me to understand the differences between brain death and other things that would cause a person to be in a similar state. How many families keep loved ones with little chance of recovery in such states for years and years? The family is not crazy or anything else, they are facing unimaginable grieve and are hanging on to that hope so many other families do. It's unrealistic but many things are.
Some people in this thread act like this family is Norman Bates with his mother's body.

I have a great deal of compassion. I can't even imagine how I would react. But here's the thing. The daughter does look like someone in a vegetative state. But she's NOT in a vegetative state. And I have to think the medical professionals have explained that. It's time to understand that those resources need to be used for someone who CAN recover.

 

[15isto2]

Does anyone know if the court order prohibits the changing of the ventilator settings?

 

[AnnaS]

I apologize I have not read all the posts/pages here.

I have had two bil (two brothers) both put on life support.

The first bil ( youngest brother 47) three years ago was literally dying and probably taking his last breaths and my sil had him put on life support. She was in denial big time. We knew it was not the right decision but she is the wife and not much we could say. My other sil - from the oldest brother made comments, how cruel it was to put him on life support, inhuman, I won't even say the rest. Anyway - he passed a few days later.

The second bil (oldest brother 60) - 6/7 months ago had a massive/fatal heart attack. His son (our nephew) gave him cpr, EMS transported him and my sil - who made the previous comments puts him on life support. Within a few days, we knew he was brain dead. The grown kids (youngest 19) all knew there was no hope. Now my sil was in those shoes - she was also in denial big time. She kept repeating she is not taking him off and killing her husband. She was also hoping for a miracle. We were told about certain movements - can't remember the terms now. What we knew were not him, she thought and hoped it was him responding. We heard and understood one story and she heard and understood what she wanted to hear.

Again, my dh - last brother/son, and my mil - could only comfort and say it is your family's decision. We really could not and it was not our place to tell them to take him off and we hoped they would be at peace and make the right decision which was to take him off. The sons knew but she did not want to come to terms with it. We did remind her about the remarks she made when our bil was recently put on life support.

Anyway - it took her a month to finally comes to terms with it and have him taken off. It was not an easy decision or something to accept within a few days. I am not in any of their shoes but saw some of it and would not want to ever be in that position.

I can't even imagine a child who went in for maybe a simple/routine procedure. I am sure they are hoping for a miracle. Their daughter could be the one story we hear about when the patient wakes up months down the road, etc. etc.

It is just so, so sad and tragic.

 

[LiveYourLife]

The family keeps saying she responds to her mother's voice and touch. Has there been any proof of this?

The Uncle, who seems to be the Family Spokesperson, said they have video proof, but are declining to release the video.

 

[sonnyjane]

The Uncle, who seems to be the Family Spokesperson, said they have video proof, but are declining to release the video.

Bad PR move on their part. If they released it I'm sure they'd get more support from the general public that doesn't understand what they are really seeing medically.

 

[LiveYourLife]

This is an old article (12/18) but interesting, it talks about the Family suctioning the blood on their own in the ICU. I know Jahi's grandmother is a nurse, but really? Can suctioning cause more bleeding if not properly performed? Pea???

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-8th-Grader-Brain-Dead-After-236015681.html

Apologies, if this was already discussed upthread. I didn't see it.

 

[JanaDee]

No. I don't think there has.

I understand people are looking at this from a clinical view but I think they are failing to see the heartbroken family. They are not looking at a dead body in the way we normally think of death. They are looking at their little girl and she's warm, breathing (although through a machine), and that monitor is showing a heartbeat. What they are looking at is probably no different than families who have loved ones in vegetative states. As a non medical person it is difficult for me to understand the differences between brain death and other things that would cause a person to be in a similar state. How many families keep loved ones with little chance of recovery in such states for years and years? The family is not crazy or anything else, they are facing unimaginable grieve and are hanging on to that hope so many other families do. It's unrealistic but many things are.
Some people in this thread act like this family is Norman Bates with his mother's body.

I have been in a similar situation with a family member. Fortunately, we were all rational beings that understood he was essentially dead and would never be coming back.

We made the decision to take him off life support after 2 days.

So yes, I have walked in their shoes and they are being irrational and need someone to step in and say enough for the sake of that poor child.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I have been in a similar situation with a family member. Fortunately, we were all rational beings that understood he was essentially dead and would never be coming back.

We made the decision to take him off life support after 2 days.

So yes, I have walked in their shoes and they are being irrational and need someone to step in and say enough for the sake of that poor child.

As seen in other posts, not everyone is as rational as you when it comes to ending life support. Many people are lead by their emotions. While this family isn't looking at the reality of the situation, they aren't cruel, crazy or any of the other things posters are saying about them.

 

[15isto2]

From the New Beginings facebook page who also seem to have banned starting threads by anyone other than themselves!

"Pertaining to the Jahi McMath family and medical condition of their daughter - we are accepting only supportive comments as the family is burdened enough with controversy at this point - anything un-supportive will be deleted and the person will be banned. Please understand we want the BEST for Jahi and her family" - with LOVE, HOPE & UNDERSTANDING for optimal healing

 

[ronandannette]

I have been in a similar situation with a family member. Fortunately, we were all rational beings that understood he was essentially dead and would never be coming back.

We made the decision to take him off life support after 2 days.

So yes, I have walked in their shoes and they are being irrational and need someone to step in and say enough for the sake of that poor child.

Here's an ideal that I've been contemplating in light of comments like Jana's above. I'm NOT advocating it, just putting it out there for review and I realize my comments are addressing a hypothetical using Jahi's case as a catalyst, not as a direct example:

If we agree that brain-dead is dead, and that dead means all sentience has ceased in this temporal plane, then it would follow that we also believe that
a) the transcendent part of the person (if we believe there is one) has entered into whatever eternal state comes next and is beyond the reach of any intervention (not intended to open debate about those options here) and;
b) the body is beyond physical suffering as the mechanisms necessary to register any such conditions are completely absent.

Supposing this, what then is the difference between the present state of this body and one that's been donated to research? How is the indignity any greater than being chemically preserved, dissected, poked, prodded and observed for months or years on end in the interest of advancing medical science? Other than our visceral reaction to the concept is there truly a material difference?

Again, I realize the case at hand does not fit the scenario I've proposed, but all cadavers were once as Jahi was - living and loved, and now are no longer.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

My heart breaks for this family. I cannot even fathom the level of grief that they are going through. I pray for them.
That being said- I think there are people on this thread who simply think that they should pull the plug and that's it and move on. That's okay if that is what you want and agree to. I will say that I personally would not want to be taken off life support. I have been very clear to my family about it. Some may call it selfish but I do believe in miracles and how does anyone really know if the ill person knows what is going on? Just because someone went to school doesn't mean they know it all. We have all seen cases where "miracles" occur. These things aren't black and white. This is my opinion and it's okay if this isn't for you. I respect that your (general you of course) choices might be different. I just think that in the end, especially in a situation like this, the family should make the decisions. I support their choice. JMHO. YMMV.