13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Lorelei Lee]

Well, the first three mentioned weren't even in the US, so "brain dead" could be determined much differently in other countries.

Yes, but my point is that we don't know the criteria used and we don't know each patient's medical conditions.

And none of us, to my knowledge, are neurologists.

 

[Jessica14]

Can you share a link or the name of the facility?

http://www.nbli.org/

It is an outpatient facility. I don't get how they will provide care. I live on Long Island, about 20 minutes away from here. Don't know what they are thinking. Well, maybe publicity as others stated...

Also, Our local ABC affiliate posted the story regarding the judges extension on Facebook this morning and so many people think there will be a "miracle" for this girl, cited the "brain dead live" article, and said that the parents should decide.

 

[mnrose]

I don't know the difference between this case and the cases cited in the article,where people woke up after being "brain dead". I don't think any of us could really tell the difference.

Sure we can. You don't have to suspend your common sense to see that there is a difference between these cases....hours and days of being "brain dead" vs. weeks (since December 12, and today is the 31st....that's 19 days). BIG difference.

And, if you actually read the reports (admittedly, it was hard to read a couple because the original reporting was in a language that wasn't English), they are quite different from this case where this child has been COMPLETELY non-responsive, with repeated scans showing NO difference, since at least December 12. With numerous doctors, some not associated at all with Children's Oakland, confirming the diagnosis. In at least one case reported above, the "brain death" was the result of a TBI, where there was brain swelling which disguised the fact that the person was in a coma. That is NOT the case here. Not even close.

I also question the level of hospitals making the diagnosis in the reports from Yahoo. We don't know if they were small community hospitals or large, sophisticated institutions like Children's or Stanford (both involved here)

It is very sad. But she is gone. All that's left is her shell.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

http://www.nbli.org/

It is an outpatient facility. I don't get how they will provide care.

good question. they posted on the Facebook page that they're so happy to help, but they're not specific about how they plan to do this, and local reporters haven't been able to reach anyone in authority there to get answers.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

The Governor can appoint a judge to an open position until the term expires. I looked up the history of Evelio Grillo, and he was appointed in 2003 and served the rest of the term (until 2012) where he ran unopposed.

He was the judge who delayed the public release of the UC Davis pepper spray report. I think it was assigned to him because the University of California's headquarters are in Oakland, where the report was prepared and was going to be released.

so by the time he comes up for reelection again, this case will be very old news.

 

[Jessica14]

OK, I just was reading on the website and the "facility" that they are working on is really close by me. I've seen the house they are renovating and it was falling down and, I imagine has needed extensive construction work. This is really outrageous. I understand people have different beliefs, but this is so disrespectful to this child.

 

[Lanshark]

Brain Dead? Doctors Said Yes, Patients Proved Otherwise

Recent cases of people being declared brain dead, then recovering contradict what doctors and organ procurement groups having been telling the public since 1968.
Related Stories

Court-appointed doctor says Calif. teen brain dead Associated Press
Judge orders hospital to keep girl on support Associated Press
[$$] Fight Over California Girl Points to Confusion About Brain Death The Wall Street Journal
Life support extended for girl declared brain dead Associated Press
Brain-dead California girl ordered kept on ventilator for week longer Reuters

"Brain dead is dead. There is no 'recovery,'" one organ procurement organization says on its website. It's a familiar refrain, but one that savvy medical consumers would do well to investigate before agreeing to become organ donors.

The "Dead" Awaken

In July, a woman diagnosed as "brain dead" did the supposedly impossible. Madeleine Gauron woke up. Transplant folks had already sought consent to harvest her organs, but fortunately for her, her family refused, demanding proof she was really dead.

That case follows on the heels of a similar "miracle" in Australia in March. Doctors declared Gloria Cruz, 56, brain dead. She regained consciousness three days later.

Lydia Paillard revived after a diagnosis of brain death in October. Sebastien Paillard was considering consenting to turning off his mother's ventilator at the doctor's recommendation when staff members noticed signs of brain activity in the "dead" woman.

Three woman in a single year, first they were irrevocably dead, and then they weren't. Before them, there was Zack Dunlap.

More at link

http://news.yahoo.com/brain-dead-doctors-said-yes-patients-proved-otherwise-221600587.html

Thanks for answering my question

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Doctors and spokespeople from Children's Hospital made it quite clear in early articles that nobody has come back from certified brain death before.

Criteria for brain death according to the "Brain Death Act" (sorry, can't remember exact name right now) is very specific.

 

[moon]

Thanks for answering my question

You are welcome

 

[sonnyjane]

The saga continues! Guess they aren't "feeding" her, at least according to the family. http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21381684&sid=26&ts=true

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

The saga continues! Guess they aren't "feeding" her, at least according to the family. http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21381684&sid=26&ts=true

I'm surprised the family's attorney has not petitioned the judge to ORDER the hospital to feed her.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

The saga continues! Guess they aren't "feeding" her, at least according to the family. http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21381684&sid=26&ts=true

And they shouldn't be! This poor family is in such denial, it's heartbreaking.

 

[pigletgirl]

The saga continues! Guess they aren't "feeding" her, at least according to the family. http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=21381684&sid=26&ts=true

Why can't the hospital make a direct statement? There are many ways doctors test for brain death and if SIX docs all declare her dead, she is gone.

Why is this mother having such a.hard time accepting this reality?

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Why can't the hospital make a direct statement? There are many ways doctors test for brain death and if SIX docs all declare her dead, she is gone. Why is this mother having such a.hard time accepting this reality?

The hospital can't comment because of HIPAA laws. Although I'm honestly not sure if that carries on the deceased? ETA: Although it must cover that too since they haven't commented on it.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

My heart breaks for this family. It would be so hard to let go of a child in this condition, especially hearing of other cases where the child woke up. I'm not sure what I would do in this case. My thoughts and prayers are with them though because this is not going to be easy.

 

[sookie]

Why is this mother having such a.hard time accepting this reality?

It isn't hard to understand - this is her CHILD.

 

[MSLRAC]

And they shouldn't be! This poor family is in such denial, it's heartbreaking.

It really is. I do feel for this family because I can't imagine the pain of losing a child but there comes a time that you have to let go. I hope this family finds peace and acceptance soon.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Some new developments on Tuesday

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - A California hospital is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit a 13-year-old declared brain dead after tonsil surgery with the breathing and feeding tubes that would allow her to be safely transferred to another facility, its lawyer said Tuesday.

Children's Hospital Oakland will not permit the procedures to be performed on its premises because Jahi McMath is legally dead in the view of doctors who have examined her, lawyer Douglas Straus wrote in a letter to the girl's family.

"Performing medical procedures on the body of a deceased human being is simply not something Children's Hospital can do or ask its staff to assist in doing," he said.

The refusal reversed the position articulated on Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube - surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.

Christopher Dolan, the lawyer for Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, said he received the news as he tried to confirm the conditions under which the hospital would have allowed a visiting doctor and nail down the long-term care facility that might accept the girl as a patient. Dolan said he has been talking with the New Beginnings Community Center in Medford, N.Y., an outpatient client for people with traumatic brain injuries, and with an unnamed facility in Arizona.

The New York facility didn't immediately return calls seeking comment.

"They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say one thing and we go down that road, and then they say something else," Dolan said of hospital officials. "The hospital said, 'Bring us a doctor' and we said, 'Tell us the conditions' and now, they've wasted a half a day of our time. We don't have much time."

Meanwhile, a state appeals court on Tuesday refused to order the hospital to insert the tubes, saying the issue has to go first to the lower court judge who has ordered the hospital to keep the girl on a ventilator until Jan. 7 pending the family's appeal. The 1st District Court of Appeal said it would consider the issue at a later date, if necessary.

Straus, the hospital's lawyer, reiterated in his letter that the hospital would release the girl's body as soon as her family provided a detailed plan outlining how the move would be accomplished and written permission from the coroner. But he said neither has been submitted.

"No facility has stated, unconditionally or otherwise, that it is prepared to immediately accept Jahi's body," he wrote.

Jahi underwent a tonsillectomy and related procedures at Children's Hospital on Dec. 9 to treat sleep apnea. Her family said she went into cardiac arrest after she started coughing up blood in the recovery room. She was declared brain dead three days later. The hospital then moved to take her off the machines that are keeping her heart and lungs going a few days before Christmas.

Doctors at Children's Hospital and an independent pediatric neurologist from Stanford University have concluded Jahi is brain dead.

Her family, citing religious beliefs and the hope that she will pull through, wants to continue life support. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo initially ruled that doctors could remove her from the ventilator at 5 p.m. Monday, but two hours before the deadline gave the family another week to find a place to move her.

Straus filed papers on Monday in both the state appeals court and in a federal court where Jahi's mother also has sued. He is opposing the family's request for an emergency order to keep Jahi on a ventilator indefinitely.

"The Superior Court correctly concluded, after three days of hearings and based on uncontroverted evidence, that Ms. McMath is, sadly, deceased," the papers state. "Turning off a ventilator that assists in delivery of oxygen of a dead person causes no irreparable harm - regardless of the parental or religious beliefs of the decedent's family."

The federal court has said it does not plan to act on the request until the case has worked its way through the state courts.

http://www.fox19.com/story/24332720/hospital-wont-aid-transfer-of-girl-on-ventilator

 

[bcla]

The hospital can't comment because of HIPAA laws. Although I'm honestly not sure if that carries on the deceased? ETA: Although it must cover that too since they haven't commented on it.

The regulations made as a result of HIPAA keep records private (without the consent of the decedent's representative(s)) for 50 years after death.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/decedents.html

The HIPAA Privacy Rule protects the individually identifiable health information about a decedent for 50 years following the date of death of the individual. This period of protection for decedent health information balances the privacy interests of surviving relatives and other individuals with a relationship to the decedent, with the need for archivists, biographers, historians, and others to access old or ancient records on deceased individuals for historical purposes. During the 50-year period of protection, the personal representative of the decedent (i.e., the person under applicable law with authority to act on behalf of the decedent or the decedent’s estate) has the ability to exercise the rights under the Privacy Rule with regard to the decedent’s health information, such as authorizing certain uses and disclosures of, and gaining access to, the information. With respect to family members or other persons involved in the individual’s health care or payment for care prior to the individual’s death, but who are not personal representatives, the Privacy Rule permits a covered entity to disclose the relevant protected health information of the decedent to such persons, unless doing so is inconsistent with any prior expressed preference of the deceased individual that is known to the covered entity.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And in another surprise, it looks like Terri Schiavo's brother's network has been "secretly" helping the family for weeks

Jahi McMath: Terri Schiavo group secretly leading transfer efforts

The last hope for Jahi McMath to be kept on a ventilator may come from a former Long Island hairdresser who runs a brain-injury treatment center dedicated to Terri Schiavo, the Florida woman whose case sparked a fierce nationwide end-of-life debate.

On Tuesday, the Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network said publicly for the first time that it has been helping Jahi's family for weeks to find a place to transfer the 13-year-old Oakland girl declared brain-dead by doctors. The network has worked "in relative silence for the sake of the sensitivity of her case."

"Jahi McMath has been labeled a 'deceased' person. Yet she retains all the functional attributes of a living person, despite her brain injury," the organization said. "This includes a beating heart, circulation and respiration, the ability to metabolize nutrition and more. Jahi is a living human being."

Schiavo's brother Bobby Schindler, executive director of Terri's Network, disputed the idea of "brain death."

And the New Beginnings Founder comments on Facebook, from the same article

New Beginnings founder and owner Allyson Scerri shared a statement on her Facebook page Tuesday explaining how her Medford, N.Y.-based facility "is about preserving life and treating brain-injured patients with care and dignity."

"We do encourage every citizen to take the time to educate themselves more clearly on the issues of what brain death is and what it is not," the New Beginnings statement read. "This child has been defined as a deceased person, yet she has all the functional attributes of a living person despite her brain injury."

On Dec. 27, Scerri posted "LETS SAVE JAHI" on her Facebook page and shared a link to a Jahi page. Two days later, she posted: "We can not let this 13 year old girl die........New Beginnings will take her under our WINGS." The facility even created a YouTube video and message to Jahi and her family.

By Tuesday, Scerri wrote: "Jahi is responding to her mothers voice and touch...........Brain dead REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

A statement from the facility said they hope to release further comments later Tuesday about the "little angel who deserves a chance to be cared for with dignity and respect."

In a letter to Jahi's attorney Christopher Dolan, Scerri told him the facility would accept Jahi into its outpatient center and eventually move her into the Brendan House facility, now under construction, for long-term care.

"We will be providing Jahi McMath 24-hour licensed nursing staff and licensed respiratory therapists," she wrote. "We are also hiring a pediatrician who will accept her as his patient."

The family still must get Jahi to the facility. A letter from Medway Air Ambulance quotes a price of $31,910 to transport Jahi from Oakland to Long Island.

Medway flight coordinator Terry Hoard confirmed his company quoted the family a price and would have no problem transporting a brain-dead patient across country.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...terri-schiavo-group-secretly-leading-transfer