Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

[ScouterJT]

I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene.

The girl is the victim. To suggest that she bears any responsibility for what transpired ...

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Actually I would say it is flawed corporate policy - why is the policy that when in port, if a crime is reported that onboard security is called instead of the police? Why does your lone security have so much so much authority, and so little oversight that when a crime is reported in port, he doesn't immediately call the police?

Its not a lone person, there is a big security force on any cruise ship. They are in charge on the vessel at sea or in port. Local police will not even respond to a call or 911 until they talk with vessel security.

It has to go though a chain of command to get to the point local or state or even the feds are called.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by maria-fan-22 View Post
I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene.


Since I will give you the benefit of the doubt, I will simply say a 11 year old girl faced with a big guy in a elevator maybe expected to be so afraid and scared of him, that she would not make a physical scene.

SINCE YOU ARE NOT 11 YEAR AGO GIRL YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT, WHICH WOULD BE PAINFULLY APPARENT TO ANY PARENT HERE, INCLUDING MYSELF.

I would further suggest you not go in that direction further.

AKK

 

[manhattanman]

I'm sorry if this was covered already, i looked. In several posts it was mentioned that the suspect was deported. Is this true ? Disney said that they terminated him and paid for his return to India to comply with a contractual clause in his employment contract.

I ask because I dont see how he could be deported from the US if he had already left and I dont see how the bahamas could deport him for an alleged crime that occured in the US. Because if he was actually deported, I suspect he would be prohibited from re-entry into the US or the bahamas which would pretty much squelch any chance he could try to resume his cruise career. if he left on his own accord ( with Disney's consent) could he not try to get another cruise ship job ?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Just for the record:


Folks seem hung up on the *jurisdiction* thing. I will point out that my understanding is that any agency, local, state or the feds can investigate on board the vessel with the vessels permission.(not that any cruise ship would say no)

Once ashore the accused could even be charged any the above listed group/groups.

However who would have jurisdiction to prosecute, could be any of the above or even the Bahamian government could claim jurisdiction and he could be sent to the Bahamas or even India.

AKK

 

[brianvdb]

Its not a lone person, there is a big security force on any cruise ship. They are in charge on the vessel at sea or in port. Local police will not even respond to a call or 911 until they talk with vessel security.

It has to go though a chain of command to get to the point local or state or even the feds are called.

AKK

"Have the police been called? If not, I'm going to call them now."

I'm guessing that the police aren't going to "refuse" to respond to a report of a potential felony that has occurred in their jurisdiction. I'll wait for them on the dock if I have to...

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm sorry if this was covered already, i looked. In several posts it was mentioned that the suspect was deported. Is this true ? Disney said that they terminated him and paid for his return to India to comply with a contractual clause in his employment contract.

I ask because I dont see how he could be deported from the US if he had already left and I dont see how the bahamas could deport him for an alleged crime that occured in the US. Because if he was actually deported, I suspect he would be prohibited from re-entry into the US or the bahamas which would pretty much squelch any chance he could try to resume his cruise career. if he left on his own accord ( with Disney's consent) could he not try to get another cruise ship job ?

He was not deported from the US, because as you noted he had already left on the vessel.. The reason the Bahamian government was involved is because the vessel is flagged in Nassau, The Bahamas.

No one seems to know if the Bahamian government deported him because Disney fired him and was contract bound to fly him home or if the Bahamians deported him and then Disney fired him and flew him home!

As big as the cruise industry is, its a tight knit group. I would bet a months pay on the fact his name is now on a list that all cruise lines share and he will never see a job on a cruise ship again.


AKK

 

[Zeppelin]

you're joking right???

Honestly, if a guest punched out a CM, they would probably simply be confined to their stateroom. I highly doubt they would be removed from the ship, definitely not arrested.

punching anyone is a basis for assault, unless its self defense...honesty- why would anyone think DCL would not remove an unruly, hostile passenger as hypothetically posed???

Back on topic, I don't know why people are still arguing about this, that guys story was horribly reported and he should not be held for any credible information, but DCL did exactly what they needed to do here. They were able to handle this in house and not involve police and delay departure. Since the grandmother decided to not press charges, DCL cannot do anything except fire they guy, which they did and send him home, which they are bound to do by contract.

And I am a tad confused over Jurisdiction i this case, but I believe that the Port Canaveral police would not have nay right to actually 'book' the Head Server. Because this is a crime between an Brazilian and an Indian that took place 'in the Bahamas'; If I am correct, the police can remove the guy, but he would be transferred to the Bahamian police, who would have no choose but to release him back to DCL to send him home because they didn't press charges.

in house?? DCL chose to take the easy way out.....

horribly reported?? seems the Port Canaveral police corroborate the evidence...based on your theory if a native of India assaults a Brazilian in downtown Cocoa Beach does that mean the crime took place in the "Bahamas"??

All that being said, can't we all stop the arguing and take this is a learning experience? I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene. Obviously it is too far to say supervise your children at all times, but remember the basic rules is one finds themselves in an 'uncomfortable situation,' make noise, get away, and let it be known that it happened. Lets stop playing the blame game and move on please. I am tired of this thread being at the top of my page...

wow- this takes the cake....she didn't cause a scene on the video...you know this because you can see the girl in the video the entire time correct?? never mind you have no idea what was going through that little girls mind....it was the first day of the cruise- i'm sure the joy of anticipation of the cruise was instantaneously replaced by the "***" of the moment...

they didn't press charges- just as easy to assume DCL/Disney gave them a nice $$$$ settlement to walk away and say nothing as it is to assume the girl did not cause a scene...

 

[Zeppelin]

The girl is the victim. To suggest that she bears any responsibility for what transpired ...

is worse than pathetic....

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

"Have the police been called? If not, I'm going to call them now."

I'm guessing that the police aren't going to "refuse" to respond to a report of a potential felony that has occurred in their jurisdiction. I'll wait for them on the dock if I have to...

You can wait on the dock, but they will not respond until they talk to security first. That doesn't mean that they aren't coming, only that they are going to confirm what, if anything is going on. They may even just ask if security was aware someone made the report and then come down.

You have to remember police departments work closely with these ship security groups. Not to mention, the vessel is not US soil.

AKK

 

[abdmom]

But DCL didn't have to investigate themselves - there was no reason for all of those other actions to happen (checking security tapes, talking to the girl). She (or her grandmother) made the complaint to guest services, a call to the police should have been immediate.

In my place of work, if someone claims they were assulted, we don't launch our own investigation and then call the police when we're satisfied that it actually happened. We call the police right away - it's their job to investigate if/what crime has been commited.

Once the police were onboard, they would have spoken to the girl, asked for security tapes, spoken with the suspect. None of this needed to be done prior to calling the police.

When at sea, the ships security has authority - when they are docked at a port, they do not.

The ship was not in international waters. If it was, then DCL would have jurisdiction. However, it was docked at Port Canaveral. Port Canaveral police have jurisdiction. Not DCL and not the Bahamas.

Honestly, if a guest punched out a CM, they would probably simply be confined to their stateroom. I highly doubt they would be removed from the ship, definitely not arrested.


Back on topic, I don't know why people are still arguing about this, that guys story was horribly reported and he should not be held for any credible information, but DCL did exactly what they needed to do here. They were able to handle this in house and not involve police and delay departure. Since the grandmother decided to not press charges, DCL cannot do anything except fire they guy, which they did and send him home, which they are bound to do by contract.

And I am a tad confused over Jurisdiction i this case, but I believe that the Port Canaveral police would not have nay right to actually 'book' the Head Server. Because this is a crime between an Brazilian and an Indian that took place 'in the Bahamas'; If I am correct, the police can remove the guy, but he would be transferred to the Bahamian police, who would have no choose but to release him back to DCL to send him home because they didn't press charges.

All that being said, can't we all stop the arguing and take this is a learning experience? I would like to kindly point out, that one thing that girl in the video did not do, was cause a scene. Obviously it is too far to say supervise your children at all times, but remember the basic rules is one finds themselves in an 'uncomfortable situation,' make noise, get away, and let it be known that it happened. Lets stop playing the blame game and move on please. I am tired of this thread being at the top of my page...

See above. The citizenship of the alleged offender and the victim don't matter. The incident took place in Port Canaveral. Police authority rests with the Port Canaveral police, not DCL security.

I'm a teacher. Schools have security guards. At the school I was teaching at last year, there were a lot of teachers and staff from various countries. If an 11 year old had accused one of them of the same thing that happened to this girl, would anyone think it appropriate if the school drove the offender to the airport and put them on a plane home? That's essentially what DCL did.

 

[Zeppelin]

But DCL didn't have to investigate themselves - there was no reason for all of those other actions to happen (checking security tapes, talking to the girl). She (or her grandmother) made the complaint to guest services, a call to the police should have been immediate.

In my place of work, if someone claims they were assulted, we don't launch our own investigation and then call the police when we're satisfied that it actually happened. We call the police right away - it's their job to investigate if/what crime has been commited.

Once the police were onboard, they would have spoken to the girl, asked for security tapes, spoken with the suspect. None of this needed to be done prior to calling the police.

When at sea, the ships security has authority - when they are docked at a port, they do not.

while I think DCL is very wrong in almost every area here, imo you cannot blame them for checking out the allegation first then alerting authorities...

 

[brianvdb]

You can wait on the dock, but they will not respond until they talk to security first. That doesn't mean that they aren't coming, only that they are going to confirm what, if anything is going on. They may even just ask if security was aware someone made the report and then come down.

You have to remember police departments work closely with these ship security groups. Not to mention, the vessel is not US soil.

AKK

Law enforcement should work in cooperation with ship security to carry out criminal investigations - no question there.

At this point, I'm just not sure that I would trust ship security to make good decisions on something of this magnitude - including promptly notifying the appropriate law enforcement agency of a crime that occurred on their property.

 

[manhattanman]

He was not deported from the US, because as you noted he had already left on the vessel.. The reason the Bahamian government was involved is because the vessel is flagged in Nassau, The Bahamas.

No one seems to know if the Bahamian government deported him because Disney fired him and was contract bound to fly him home or if the Bahamians deported him and then Disney fired him and flew him home!

As big as the cruise industry is, its a tight knit group. I would bet a months pay on the fact his name is now on a list that all cruise lines share and he will never see a job on a cruise ship again.


AKK

so if he chooses another profession, he would not be prevented from re-entering the US, correct ?

I could see him being deported from the bahamas as since the ship flies a bahamian flag his work contract is likely under bahamian law, with no job he would likely not have a valid work permit and would have to leave and re-enter under some other mechanism if he wished to stay in the bahamas.

I know that there are important differences based on maritime law and I am not a lawyer or confident to determine whether Disney acted legally or morally but from my foggy recollection, I thought that aiding the relocalization of a suspect to evade arrest, is a felony ( the sheinbein story).

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Law enforcement should work in cooperation with ship security to carry out criminal investigations - no question there.

At this point, I'm just not sure that I would trust ship security to make good decisions on something of this magnitude - including promptly notifying the appropriate law enforcement agency of a crime that occurred on their property.

I see what your saying and I have been very vocal about how wrong it was for the vessel to sail and not advised the police.

Who else would call?, only the Grandma. Even if she did, they would still call and advise the vessel security before come down.


Now if it was my own child, I have to agree I would likely be calling the police myself if I had even a hint of a feeling the security team was not doing what should be done! However I think they would be calling security about a crazy mad Father on the phone to them!

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

so if he chooses another profession, he would not be prevented from re-entering the US, correct ?

I could see him being deported from the bahamas as since the ship flies a bahamian flag his work contract is likely under bahamian law, with no job he would likely not have a valid work permit and would have to leave and re-enter under some other mechanism if he wished to stay in the bahamas.

I know that there are important differences based on maritime law and I am not a lawyer or confident to determine whether Disney acted legally or morally but from my foggy recollection, I thought that aiding the relocalization of a suspect to evade arrest, is a felony ( the sheinbein story).

I am not a lawyer either just a maritime guy/ retired Ships Officer, with 35 years in the industry.

I would image his name is also with HLS now as well, because if he returned to the States the law enforcement groups in Florida would surely want to talk to him about the incident on the Dream.


No you hit the point, we don't have enough information, factually or legally to now what the vessel did or when! Whether it was legally criminal or if by international law was legal.

AKK

 

[brianvdb]

I see what your saying and I have been very vocal about how wrong it was for the vessel to sail and not advised the police.

Who else would call?, only the Grandma. Even if she did, they would still call and advise the vessel security before come down.

Your perspective on these situations is greatly appreciated.

These situations are just another reminder that you often have to be your own advocate when bad things happen.

 

[justmestace]

Let me just say the one thing I know for a fact about DCL Security. Not on the Dream, but on the Wonder anyway.
The HEAD of DCL Security stood in my stateroom and LIED to my face, in order to protect Disney Cruise Line. So did the hotel manager and the CD. I have witnesses who heard it all.

I will NEVER trust them again.

I don't hate Disney. I cruised with them the next year, just got back from Disneyland, and am cruising again next year. But I will never believe a word they say in any situation like this again.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The ship was not in international waters. If it was, then DCL would have jurisdiction. However, it was docked at Port Canaveral. Port Canaveral police have jurisdiction. Not DCL and not the Bahamas.



See above. The citizenship of the alleged offender and the victim don't matter. The incident took place in Port Canaveral. Police authority rests with the Port Canaveral police, not DCL security. I'm a teacher. Schools have security guards. At the school I was teaching at last year, there were a lot of teachers and staff from various countries. If an 11 year old had accused one of them of the same thing that happened to this girl, would anyone think it appropriate if the school drove the offender to the airport and put them on a plane home? That's essentially what DCL did.

This is not totally true, it could be state, local or the feds or the Bahamian government could have jurisdiction.

Yes the local police can investigate, but in the end any of the above agencies/governments may have jurisdiction and the right to prosecute.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Your perspective on these situations is greatly appreciated.

These situations are just another reminder that you often have to be your own advocate when bad things happen.

Very true my friend!

AKK