Ok, Tell Me How She Feels So That I Can Understand

[Patience]

He needs to find a secondary back up for when he is working. I don't think having Grandma as primary back up is a bad thing per se. However, the onus needs to be on the dad to make arrangements.

If the mom is accustomed to the girls being with dad or Grandma on the weekends, then that's what she expects. I don't think it's unreasonable. Giving dad 3 weeks notice that she is going away for a weekend seems like ample time for him to come up with Plan B.

I agree with this. If it's his weekend for visitation and he has to work, he needs to find a babysitter, whether that's you OP or someone else. You said his apartment is not suitable for the girls so he therefore needs to find someone to babysit them at your house, since you are willing for them to stay the weekends at your house. Ideally, he should find an appropriate apartment for them all to live in. They are his children and deserve to have a safe and secure home with him. Until that happens though, I don't see why it's impossible for him to find a babysitter to stay with them at your house until you get back from wherever it is you need to go. And OP, no offense to you, but your son really has not spent much time with his children at all from what you posted. His wife is obviously frustrated by that and feels that all the childcare responsiblities are on her with very little assistance from their father. I can see that she would be angry about that and upset for her children who do not seem to be much of a priority to their father.

 

[Aliceacc]

I can see how everyone is frustrated. Your DIL, because it certainly does seem as though she's doing the lion's share of the parenting and can't depend on her ex to spend time with their children... and she has to pick up the "Why, mommy??" pieces every time he cancels. Your son, because it's hard to make ends meet. And you, because you've become your son's go-to person for the parenting that he can't seem to find time for. And your daughter, because time she would want you with her instead is going to her nieces.

But, again, mostly I feel for those kids. It must be incredibly demoralizing to know that daddy lives in a place where you're not welcome. And to plan time with daddy, only to find that he has to work... again. They're at the age where their mommy and daddy are their whole world; they deserve to have the adults in their life make their needs a priority. It seems to me as though they're the real victims in this whole scenario.

 

[crashbb]

Ds did not make the choice to live seperatly she did.

So, if she wanted to live together, he'd magically have a job in town? You've said he is living somewhere that he cannot have his daughters because is the only job he can find. How would this be different if she wife hadn't wanted to separate?

 

[Darcy03231]

OP, I was once a divorced mom with two small children and an ex-husband who spent very little time with them (kids were 2 & 4 when we separated). The situation was very similar to what you've described.

While I don't fault your DS for his out of town work, if he wants to have a relationship with his children as they get older, he should reconsider the westling. My children are now 19 & 21 and really don't have much of a relationship with their Dad and it's his fault. While they were young and growing up he didn't take the time to spend with them when he had the chance. It was always work, his band, etc. He saw them when it was convenient for him.

I really do understand that he has to work out of town. In this economy you do what you can for a job. It's easy for people to say get a new job, find a new place to live, etc., but in reality it can be easier said than done. I imagine that once he pays for a place to live near his job, and supports his family, there isn't a whole lot left over.

The one thing he can do is give his children the gift of his time. While he may enjoy the wrestling now, I think he would enjoy having a relationship with his children as they get older and into the future more. My ex is now in a position of wishing he could go back and change the past - - which we all know you can't do.

My children have grown up to be bright, well-adjusted young adults even with the limited presence of their father, mostly due to a completely involved step-father. This is another risk you son takes. Both of my children have commented that my husband has been more of a father to them then their own. In fact, when they introduce us to new friends we're introduced as "these are my parents." If your DS doesn't step up to the plate now, he may miss his chance later.

 

[Granny square]

How the mom feels? Responsible for everything. Because even with help from the grandparents she ultimately is. Heck you feel responsible for an adult son. Unless he is making a ton if money wrestling (and I bet spends a ton doing it, because that is the case with most hobby "jobs") then he needs to put it aside for those poor little girls. He needs to man up. A dad isn't just a paycheck.

 

[Turn the Page]

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

First of all I do not believe that if there was a problem with the girls seeing his "show" that you would say something. The vast majority of the people here think there is a problem with it and you have done some pretty amazing mental gymnastics to rationalize it to yourself.

You asked why she is angry and we are telling you why. And yes, it does have to do with his job and wrestling because the job leaves him with very little time with the girls, and no guarantee about when he can see them, and wrestling chips away at that even more. I get the very strong impression that you are solely and completely in his camp and he can do no wrong and you want to blame your DIL for the break up of the marriage and for being unreasonable in this and every disagreement. Let me tell you from personal experience that is not a place you want to be. You will endear yourself to your DIL if you admit your son is not perfect and endeavor to put your GDD's needs and well being first even if it means incoveniencing your precious baby boy because they are the victims here, not him.

 

[Pigeon]

It's wierd, but fairly few of you see that he is working to provide for her and the kids. She has ample support from both families (which is pretty rare in this day and age). I understand her wanting to have some free time, but thanks to him working, she has enough money to spend a weekend at a concert, not have to work herself to put food on the table. Considering how many dead beat dads there are out there, I have a tendency to give credit where credit is due here.

The son needs to make some changes for sure, but maybe a lot of you don't want to see what he IS doing, you just see what he ISN'T doing.

I work to support my kids--most of us do. I also arranged and paid for childcare for the times when my work schedule prohibited me from being with my kids. Most of us do that as well. No, he doesn't get the father of the year award merely for having a job.

 

[RitaE]

So, if she wanted to live together, he'd magically have a job in town? You've said he is living somewhere that he cannot have his daughters because is the only job he can find. How would this be different if she wife hadn't wanted to separate?

Is living with him even an option though? He is living in some apartment with a bunch of other men. If it isn't appropriate for the girls to visit him there then I'm guessing it isn't all that appropriate for his wife to live there with him either. Did he offer to get an apartment where she and the babies could join him?

 

[kellyg403]

OP, I was once a divorced mom with two small children and an ex-husband who spent very little time with them (kids were 2 & 4 when we separated). The situation was very similar to what you've described.

While I don't fault your DS for his out of town work, if he wants to have a relationship with his children as they get older, he should reconsider the westling. My children are now 19 & 21 and really don't have much of a relationship with their Dad and it's his fault. While they were young and growing up he didn't take the time to spend with them when he had the chance. It was always work, his band, etc. He saw them when it was convenient for him.

I really do understand that he has to work out of town. In this economy you do what you can for a job. It's easy for people to say get a new job, find a new place to live, etc., but in reality it can be easier said than done. I imagine that once he pays for a place to live near his job, and supports his family, there isn't a whole lot left over.

The one thing he can do is give his children the gift of his time. While he may enjoy the wrestling now, I think he would enjoy having a relationship with his children as they get older and into the future more. My ex is now in a position of wishing he could go back and change the past - - which we all know you can't do.

My children have grown up to be bright, well-adjusted young adults even with the limited presence of their father, mostly due to a completely involved step-father. This is another risk you son takes. Both of my children have commented that my husband has been more of a father to them then their own. In fact, when they introduce us to new friends we're introduced as "these are my parents." If your DS doesn't step up to the plate now, he may miss his chance later.

I also think, since the couple is separated, that one of the reasons mom is upset is because of the relationship for her dd's. Women,it seems, automatically adjust to 'our' relationship to the ex to the 'kids' relationship with dad. We bear the responsibility when dad can only see the kids once a year due to military or having a job in a different place. We also bear the emotional responsibility, it is difficult, even in this day and age for kids and dads who live far apart with no concrete plans. This is one of the reasons a lot of divorced people make moving far away impossible and part of the divorce/custody agreement. The kids look forward to things to and for them it would be nice to have a day they can look forward to consistently getting to see their dad.

My kids love their dad and it took a LOT of hard work because there were times he didn't see them for up to two years because he was deployed. I worked hard to have the kids available, send him things, be able to see him when he was home on leave. While, they do look up to their Step dad, who has been very good to them, as the 'dad' figure and their 'dad' is more of a really good uncle they love dearly their relationship with their dad is something he worked at making. There were definitely times he could have done better, but me too. I realize now, that had we stayed married, he probably would have still had that type of relationship with the kids. Its really who he is.

I hope they can work this out and both find a way to understand, by showing each other respect in this situation. Dad has to work a job out of town for money so that he can support his children. Mom takes the responsibility for the children. On dad's every other weekend he takes the children, regardless of whether he has to work or find a sitter. The children will learn everything they need to know about relationships and how to handle them by watching their parents.

Kelly

 

[crashbb]

Is living with him even an option though? He is living in some apartment with a bunch of other men. If it isn't appropriate for the girls to visit him there then I'm guessing it isn't all that appropriate for his wife to live there with him either. Did he offer to get an apartment where she and the babies could join him?

That was kind of my point. The OP has made the comment "it isn't his idea to live separately", and I don't understand. Sounds like the job would keep living separately anyway.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Where am I wrong in this situation?

DS and DIL are separated. She moved out and moved in with her mom.

Right after she moved out, ds got a really fantastic job out of town. He is gone Mon-Fri, unless they have a rain-out and then he is gone Sat. too. He has an apartment in the town with his work, stays with me on the weekends so that he can see his dds.

Since he started the new job, he has worked every Saturday and one Sunday.

The first two weekends, I would meet her and get the girls on Friday nights so that they would be at my house when he got home. I can't do that now because dd has Show Choir competitions every weekend. The girls are too young to spend the day at a competition. I told dil that this was coming and that ds would get the girls when he got home. She got mad at me and acted like I don't want to see the girls. Which is not true at all.

Yesterday she texted me and I asked if "wanted" the girls. Of course I want them! But, dd has a competition Saturday and we won't be home until late. So I told her that she and ds would have to work out him picking them up Saturday night. (it worked out that he doesn't have to work Saturday so he is getting them now actually).

Then she sends another text that she is going out of state over the weekend in about 3 weeks and one of us would need to keep the girls. And that she told ds he needed to be in town as much as possible. She is going to a concert.

DS has all intentions of having the girls, so no real problem except I told her that IF he has to work that Saturday, I wouldn't be able to watch them due to another competition so she may need to have a back up just in case. So, now she is mad again.

Show choir season is only for 2-3 months and this just happens to be that time of year. I would keep the girls any other time, just not on days with competitions.

She is mad because ds might have to work and she is mad because I can't keep them if he does. DS told her that he cannot call in at work--it would be risking his job. So, I really don't know what she wants us to do.

Every moment he is off from work, he is with his daughters, except for a couple of hours on Saturday night when he goes to his wrestling show. He picks them up after or she brings them to him. He told her that he would let the promotion know that he wouldn't be there the weekend of the concert but that doesn't seem to be enough. I told her that its possible that if she can get her mom or dad to keep them, I would pick them up after the competition but I can't guarantee a time because it all depends on how the choir does. Not good enough.

So, I have basically said nothing else to her and let her stew. I can't change anything. But, then I wondered, is there something I am not seeing?

#1) You are too involved however I am going to say that is probably not going to change.

#2) If it is HIS weekend, it is up to HIM (or you) to find childcare, the end.

Everything else is mute. So get on the stick during dance season and find a babysitter.

 

[sam_gordon]

luvsJack,

If I may suggest, step away from this thread. You asked for insight on how your DiL feels. I think everyone is in agreement on what her thinking is, so you got the answer to your question.

I think continuing to read the thread will just make you more frustrated and if you try to defend DS, it's not going to gain you anything.

No one is going to post the "magic bullet" solution that makes your problem go away. It's going to be a bunch of compromises on the part of your DiL & DS. Neither you nor her parents should be involved in the compromises.

Good luck

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I don't think he should quit the only FT job he can find righ now because it has variable work hours. Lots of jobs are like that. Heck, I have to work this weekend, my first weekend in months. However I do think A) the dad needs to find a babysitter that can be with the girls on Saturday at grandmas house. THe minute It rains during the week he should call them and line that up every week. B) the dad needs to keep looking for another job that is more family friendly so this isn't a permanent obstacle.
I do think its good he is supporting the girls and probably the wife to a point. However a parents's responsibility is more than just monetary. He is also responsible for making sure they are cared for.

 

[PeterPanic]

I don't have enough lifetime left to read through this train wreck of a post but I have read enough. He has only a few hours per week to see his kids, BUT, he spends some of it at his WRESTLING SHOW? Really?

It seems to me that what everyone wants here is to make things convenient for themselves. I don't think I blame the DIL from being upset. She can't plan anything, yet Son insists that he get his share, when it is convenient for him. I think I can understand why they are separated.

 

[Nancyg56]

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

I am a parent so I think that I understand why you are trying to justify your son's choices. I am a parent so I think that you need to really decide if you want to help him or if you want to enable his decisions. He is going to have to decide if he wants to be a single man who plays with the kids when he can work them in or if he wants to be a parent. As a mother, I would try to make my son understand that he needs to parent his children and that all of his choices should be based around their needs. This is what I would do if my son was choosing to be as irresponsible as your boy.

This decision is going to be taken away from him if he does not make it himself. Wrestling needs to go. He may make some money but honestly, his girls are paying for that. He needs to find adequate housing so he can have his girls live with him on his weekends, and since he cannot always ensure he has saturdays off he needs to stop using your house as that place. He needs to get his own home and line up dependable childcare.

Your DDIL's feelings are all wrapped up in your son's decisions to choose his convenience over the needs of his children. You say you don't want opinions on his choices, but you must see how that girl is dealing with them. I would be furious and I would not be telling you. Your son would be getting papers from my attorney.

It's wierd, but fairly few of you see that he is working to provide for her and the kids. She has ample support from both families (which is pretty rare in this day and age). I understand her wanting to have some free time, but thanks to him working, she has enough money to spend a weekend at a concert, not have to work herself to put food on the table. Considering how many dead beat dads there are out there, I have a tendency to give credit where credit is due here.

The son needs to make some changes for sure, but maybe a lot of you don't want to see what he IS doing, you just see what he ISN'T doing.

Oh, I see what he is doing. He is working but that has absolutely nothing to do with his kids. I was a single mother and I had to work. I did not have the luxury of just dumping the kids with a spouse who would just need to suck it up. I had my Mom and she helped but I lined up childcare for most of my working hours. I worked when it was best for the kids, evenings. I got almost no sleep. I had to work. I had to make sure I had enough dependable babysitters. I did it. Thjis guy has to work I get it He also needs to get babysitters lined up when his Mom can't step in and do it for him. He is like the kid who has his Mom call the school to tell them the dog ate his homework.

 

[M2B]

Work interferes with family time. It's a fact of life for many. However, DIL is frustrated because he (and you) expect her to pick up his slack. She is supposed to plan around him. That's what is frustrating. He needs to come up with a reliable plan to make sure his kids are picked up when they are supposed to be, and are cared for when they are with him.

What would happen if he were all of a sudden primary caregiver? Would you be responsible for the girls? What would you do with them during choir season? What would HE do during choir season?

You have your answer numerous times. I suspect it isn't what you wanted to hear.

For the record, if she went to court I can't see this playing favorably for him.

- he lives in an apartment not suitable for kids. I'm in Canada.. parental accommodations MUST be suitable for the children before visitation can happen. Maybe where you are Grandma's house is acceptable.. but then Grandma's house needs to be constant regardless of what else is going on.
- unless the wrestling is contributing significantly to the finances, it needs to go. IF he were to pay for care during that time, would it be worth it? That's the trade off any parent needs to look at. It's a second, very part time job. If he's making a decent income from it AFTER paying for childcare and other expenses.. then it's worthwhile.

 

[luv2sleep]

Where am I wrong in this situation?

DS and DIL are separated. She moved out and moved in with her mom.

Right after she moved out, ds got a really fantastic job out of town. He is gone Mon-Fri, unless they have a rain-out and then he is gone Sat. too. He has an apartment in the town with his work, stays with me on the weekends so that he can see his dds.

Since he started the new job, he has worked every Saturday and one Sunday.

The first two weekends, I would meet her and get the girls on Friday nights so that they would be at my house when he got home. I can't do that now because dd has Show Choir competitions every weekend. The girls are too young to spend the day at a competition. I told dil that this was coming and that ds would get the girls when he got home. She got mad at me and acted like I don't want to see the girls. Which is not true at all.

Yesterday she texted me and I asked if "wanted" the girls. Of course I want them! But, dd has a competition Saturday and we won't be home until late. So I told her that she and ds would have to work out him picking them up Saturday night. (it worked out that he doesn't have to work Saturday so he is getting them now actually).

Then she sends another text that she is going out of state over the weekend in about 3 weeks and one of us would need to keep the girls. And that she told ds he needed to be in town as much as possible. She is going to a concert.

DS has all intentions of having the girls, so no real problem except I told her that IF he has to work that Saturday, I wouldn't be able to watch them due to another competition so she may need to have a back up just in case. So, now she is mad again.

Show choir season is only for 2-3 months and this just happens to be that time of year. I would keep the girls any other time, just not on days with competitions.

She is mad because ds might have to work and she is mad because I can't keep them if he does. DS told her that he cannot call in at work--it would be risking his job. So, I really don't know what she wants us to do.

Every moment he is off from work, he is with his daughters, except for a couple of hours on Saturday night when he goes to his wrestling show. He picks them up after or she brings them to him. He told her that he would let the promotion know that he wouldn't be there the weekend of the concert but that doesn't seem to be enough. I told her that its possible that if she can get her mom or dad to keep them, I would pick them up after the competition but I can't guarantee a time because it all depends on how the choir does. Not good enough.

So, I have basically said nothing else to her and let her stew. I can't change anything. But, then I wondered, is there something I am not seeing?

I only read this post but I've got to say she's a piece of work and has some nerve. I'm a solo, 100% of the time parent with no family help. I PAY a sitter every time I need to be away from home. Which is maybe for 2 hours a week so I can run errands sans child (hair appt, dentist, etc).. I can't imagine treating a loving grandmother this way. And asking your son to skip work so she can go to a concert? And why does she need to pawn them off on Saturdays anyway? That are HER children? I'm going to read the thread now but wanted to chime in. Bless you for being such a wonderful mom and grandmother! I WISH we had that!

 

[luvsJack]

Well...how many weekends has he missed wrestling to take care of the girls? 1? none? several? She wants to get away for a weekend, why can't he take responsibilty for the girls for a full weekend once or twice a month? She deserves to do something she wants to do too, doesn't she? He needs to commit to at least one full weekend a month to give her a full weekend. Regardless of whether he needs to pay for a sitter to watch them occassionally.

and I have already said about4 times that he has already cancelled for that weekend. Do you people read at all or just jump to conclusions?

 

[Granny square]

I only read this post but I've got to say she's a piece of work and has some nerve. I'm a solo, 100% of the time parent with no family help. I PAY a sitter every time I need to be away from home. Which is maybe for 2 hours a week so I can run errands sans child (hair appt, dentist, etc).. I can't imagine treating a loving grandmother this way. And asking your son to skip work so she can go to a concert? And why does she need to pawn them off on Saturdays anyway? That are HER children? I'm going to read the thread now but wanted to chime in. Bless you for being such a wonderful mom and grandmother! I WISH we had that!

Seriously? At what point is the father responsible for his own children? He gets to do what he wants on Saturday night but she doesn't ever get to? I have never considered my husband watching his kids as pawning them off...

 

[RadioNate]

I only read this post but I've got to say she's a piece of work and has some nerve. I'm a solo, 100% of the time parent with no family help. I PAY a sitter every time I need to be away from home. Which is maybe for 2 hours a week so I can run errands sans child (hair appt, dentist, etc).. I can't imagine treating a loving grandmother this way. And asking your son to skip work so she can go to a concert? And why does she need to pawn them off on Saturdays anyway? That are HER children? I'm going to read the thread now but wanted to chime in. Bless you for being such a wonderful mom and grandmother! I WISH we had that!

I can't even. They are HIS children too!! So he takes zero parenting responsibility? Omg.

This can't be serious.

As a single mom, very much living this DILs life, I understand how she feels. Clearly the OP doesn't "get it."

I can't. Backing away.