Ok, Tell Me How She Feels So That I Can Understand

[Buckalew11]

I get what you are saying and I understand people need to work, but that is really neither here, nor there. Having done my stomp through family court, here is what will happen.

His ex, since she, technically has the children 6 days a week, will be given primary custody. Also since she has them 6 days a week will be awarded child support in an amount that is commensurate with having the children 6 nights a week (she is probably, at this juncture eligible for AFDC, if she files they will summons him for a child support hearing)

The judge will not want to hear that he doesn't have a home suitable for his children. He will be told to acquire one, or he will not be allowed over night visitation, which will increase his child support again. The judge will not want to hear that he has wrestling, or has to work, or has no sitter on his court ordered days. He will be told to find an appropriate sitter, and pay for it if he has to. Really, I have been there, and done that. The judge also doesn't want to hear anything about any grandparents.

My ex had custody of his daughter. We had all the same issues with his ex as your daughter in law has with your son. She didn't have a car. The judge told her "You are responsible for 50% of the transportation, find a ride, get on the bus, do what you have to do." She was living in a 2 bedroom apartment that she was sharing with her mother and a younger sibling. The judge told her, "the child needs a room, not a room she shares with an adult, her own room, find somewhere appropriate to live, or you don't get overnight visitation." She would do the same and cancel picking her up on her weekends at the last minute, sometimes leaving us scrambling for a sitter. The judge told her that unless it were an emergency, advance notice was needed to change the visitation agreement, and both parties must agree. Child care on her days was her responsibility.

Your son is an adult. They are his kids, too. Regardless of how you may have handled visitation with your ex, it is not a situation which works for your son and daughter in law. You are the grandmother, not the parent, they are not your kids and you are under no obligation to care for them. Her parents are also under no obligation to care for them. If you are both volunteering and helping out, that is nice, but in the end they are both adults and must come to a compromise.

Sometimes as parents we have to sacrifice. I'm married, and there are things I have to give up because the kids are a priority, it is doubly hard if you are a single parent. Your son needs to work on getting his situation settled and providing a home for his children. If that means he has to commute, or give up some recreation time, so be it. Your only responsibility is your child. Your son is responsible for his.

I have a teen daughter who babysits when we need her. (she gets paid, though) At no time ever do I consider it her responsibility. They aren't her kids. So if we ask her to sit and she has plans, too bad, so sad. We have to find another sitter, or stay home. You need to make your son step up to the plate and take care of his responsibilities.

Being a father is more than handing over a check.

This was our experience also. My BIL had an apartment over his business that he moved into when he moved out of the family home. They told him he had to get an apartment with room for his kids. His kids never did spend the night with him (well, maybe one dd did 2 or 3 times and one stayed once) but he still had to provide them a place.

 

[Nancyg56]

I really do understand your frustration. You love your son and you want to understand how your DDIL feels but you have a bias. You wanted to understand how your DDIL feels and people have tried to explain her POV.

It does not matter who wanted this separation. It does not matter why your DS moved away to work. It does not matter that you and your DDIL's parents help out during teh week. What does matter is that there are two kids who are shuffled around because there are no set arrangements for them.

Your son needs to figure out how to be a parent. He needs to find housing that is suitable for a family. He needs to address childcare on his weekends. He needs to make sure that even when he is working the girls are in his care, that means he needs to make suitable arrangements for them. It would be in his best interest that he does this now before the arrangements are made for him. Then we will be having a different discussion here about how unfair it is that DS doesn't get to see his girls as often as he wants to see them.

I know why he chose to move for his job but he is gong to pay a steep price for this decision, as will his children. They are already suffering the consequences, they see their Dad for limited times on the weekends. There is going to come a day when they will only have limited time for him, their weekends are going to be booked up so he better make use of the time he has, it goes by quickly.

 

[badblackpug]

Folks I am not sure where this derailed. It was TWO Fridays that I picked up the girls. He did not ask me to. SHE did. He came home the next day and got them.

He is seeing his kids every weekend. He cannot get them on Friday if he has to work on Saturday. As soon as he gets home he gets them. Y'all are reading way too much into the whole wrestling thing. He can take them with him or simply stop by the venue on his way home--he has done both.
I do not take care of them for him. I keep them more for her than I do him.

I feel bad for the girls and worry about them. I see them as much as I can. but dd doesn't drive yet and has to be transported where she needs to go. and I have a job plus school.

Ds did not make the choice to live seperatly she did.

I know what its like to be a single mom. I also understand the working away from home. Neither one is easy but sometimes you have to make it work.

All of this started about a weekend she plans to be out of state for a concert. Wrestling has nothing to do with that weekend. Working at a job he needs so that his kids have clothes and food and diapers is the only thing that will make him unable to have them the whole time she is gone.

Taking them with him to work is not an option, finding a sitter near his work is not an option. Quiting his job is not an option. Picking them up Friday evening and having them with him until he leaves on Sunday is the best thing to do and what he will do if he can. But he cannot control the weather and he cannot control what his job requires.

His dad was rarely in his life. he and his brother were rarely a priority to their dad. He would rather be in a bar shooting pool than seeing his sons. I know what an absent father looks like and I can guarantee you this is not it.

He is here right now WITH his daughters. He came home, picked them up, got them something to eat, watched cartoons with them, got their baths and just got everybody to bed. Tomorrow they are going to the park and then they are going with him to the show. Sunday they will go to church and he is planning on the afternoon at the playground before he has to leave fore work. WOW. Wish his father would have been such a "horrible" parent.

You are not seeing this objectively, at all. He works all week. He is supposed to pick them up Friday night and see them a few hours Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday during the day. In your OP you said he has had to work 2 Saturdays and 1 Sunday (I think?) They are with their mother Sunday night through Friday afternoon. It is really very limited hours he has to see them. Those hours are now cut even shorter because of his work and wrestling schedule. You picked up the slack, which was nice of you, but not your responsibility, and I don't think it was to help the ex out, it was because he can't have the children at his bachelor pad, and he was going to bring them to your house anyway, so you just picked them up.

It really doesn't matter who decided to move out, or why. The marriage isn't working, and it always takes 2 to tango. The point is, you asked how your ex daughter in law feels? She probably feels overwhelmed and taken advantage of. He has all week for adult time, and a couple hours on the weekend of wrestling time. She has the kids all week, and since she is living with her parents they have small kids running around the house all week. She, and her parents, probably look forward to some downtime on the weekend. She probably contacted you, because she knows that you are the one that watches this kids on the weekend. ...and really, you have been. Maybe not this weekend, but the last 2 or 3 when he had to work, she probably knows that if she asks him, or tells him that he needs to step up to the plate and have arrangements in place for one complete weekend, 3 weeks away, he will make an excuse. She probably approached you because she thought you were sympathetic. Maybe her parents don't want to keep the kids all weekend, because they are worn out from having them underfoot all week. I have small kids, I know that after a while it's overwhelming, probably especially so for older people who have already raised their children.

It still stands, though, that your son is not being responsible. Part of being a responsible parent is providing an appropriate home and making sure your children are adequately cared for, whether you are married or not.

Turn the situation around. Your son and the kids all live in your house. They are little and underfoot, and needy, because little kids are. She is supposed to pick them up Friday nights and keep them for the weekend, but, now weekend, after weekend, she has picked them up late. Or the next day, or not at all.

Again, the kids are not your responsibility, they are your son's and daughter in law's. They are the ones that need to be adults, work out a schedule, find appropriate housing, and reliable child care.

Again, I'm married. I have a job, I go to school, my husband works crazy hours. Do you know how many babysitters we have had to let go because they were flaky about not showing up. How many times we have had to cancel fun things because we didn't have a sitter or a sitter cancelled? I don't even want to get into how much money we have shelled out to sitters and daycares and preschools over the years. It's life, it's part of being a parent. It's time for you to step back and make these 2 adults responsible for raising the children they made.

 

[shortbun]

Actually he has every night after work that is not working or with the kids. So I don't think that he only gets 2 hours a week that is not working or with the kids.

yep! AND, he needs to stop the wrestling. 1. It's taking him away from his responsibility as a parent. 2. you said it's making him money...big deal, he's got to parent sometimes. One day a week isn't doing that. I agree, you should stay out of it but you need to warn him that he's going to lose his girls. If I were his wife, I'd be documenting every single thing so I had a case for full custody and very limited visitation. That way, she'll know exactly what she's dealing with. It seems like HE wants a divorce to me. Actions speak louder than words. Again, THIS is why she left. She's giving him a chance to show he cares and he's blowing it totally!

 

[luvsJack]

So he's taking his little girls to watch essentially backyard wrestling? Is HE one of the wrestlers? Are these girls watching their dad get beat up (or beat up another person)??

Best thing you can do is to try to extricate yourself from the situation as much as possible. Offer what assistance you can when asked and don't feel guilty when you can't. They are the parents and it's up to them to arrange care for their children.

BTW, many people have offered to explain "how she feels so that you can understand" but you don't seemto want to hear it. I don't know what you really want (other than people to side with you and your son perhaps?). Unfortunately it sounds like a crappy situation for everyone involved.

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

She probably feels trapped and took it out on you. It has to be frustrating for everyone involved.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

Well...how many weekends has he missed wrestling to take care of the girls? 1? none? several? She wants to get away for a weekend, why can't he take responsibilty for the girls for a full weekend once or twice a month? She deserves to do something she wants to do too, doesn't she? He needs to commit to at least one full weekend a month to give her a full weekend. Regardless of whether he needs to pay for a sitter to watch them occassionally.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Well...how many weekends has he missed wrestling to take care of the girls? 1? none? several? She wants to get away for a weekend, why can't he take responsibilty for the girls for a full weekend once or twice a month? She deserves to do something she wants to do too, doesn't she? He needs to commit to at least one full weekend a month to give her a full weekend. Regardless of whether he needs to pay for a sitter to watch them occassionally.

It sounds like the FT job is the problem that weekend, not wrestling. The FT job is dependent on the weather.

 

[LisaR]

yep! AND, he needs to stop the wrestling. 1. It's taking him away from his responsibility as a parent. 2. you said it's making him money...big deal, he's got to parent sometimes. One day a week isn't doing that. I agree, you should stay out of it but you need to warn him that he's going to lose his girls. If I were his wife, I'd be documenting every single thing so I had a case for full custody and very limited visitation. That way, she'll know exactly what she's dealing with. It seems like HE wants a divorce to me. Actions speak louder than words. Again, THIS is why she left. She's giving him a chance to show he cares and he's blowing it totally!

Really??

I am honestly shocked that anyone would think that the ONLY person in a family of four who is bringing in a paycheck should quit a job so he can spend an extra two hours with his kids.

 

[badblackpug]

Where am I wrong in this situation?

DS and DIL are separated. She moved out and moved in with her mom.

Right after she moved out, ds got a really fantastic job out of town. He is gone Mon-Fri, unless they have a rain-out and then he is gone Sat. too. He has an apartment in the town with his work, stays with me on the weekends so that he can see his dds.

Since he started the new job, he has worked every Saturday and one Sunday.

The first two weekends, I would meet her and get the girls on Friday nights so that they would be at my house when he got home. I can't do that now because dd has Show Choir competitions every weekend. The girls are too young to spend the day at a competition. I told dil that this was coming and that ds would get the girls when he got home. She got mad at me and acted like I don't want to see the girls. Which is not true at all.

Yesterday she texted me and I asked if "wanted" the girls. Of course I want them! But, dd has a competition Saturday and we won't be home until late. So I told her that she and ds would have to work out him picking them up Saturday night. (it worked out that he doesn't have to work Saturday so he is getting them now actually).

Then she sends another text that she is going out of state over the weekend in about 3 weeks and one of us would need to keep the girls. And that she told ds he needed to be in town as much as possible. She is going to a concert.

DS has all intentions of having the girls, so no real problem except I told her that IF he has to work that Saturday, I wouldn't be able to watch them due to another competition so she may need to have a back up just in case. So, now she is mad again.

Show choir season is only for 2-3 months and this just happens to be that time of year. I would keep the girls any other time, just not on days with competitions.

She is mad because ds might have to work and she is mad because I can't keep them if he does. DS told her that he cannot call in at work--it would be risking his job. So, I really don't know what she wants us to do.

Every moment he is off from work, he is with his daughters, except for a couple of hours on Saturday night when he goes to his wrestling show. He picks them up after or she brings them to him. He told her that he would let the promotion know that he wouldn't be there the weekend of the concert but that doesn't seem to be enough. I told her that its possible that if she can get her mom or dad to keep them, I would pick them up after the competition but I can't guarantee a time because it all depends on how the choir does. Not good enough.

So, I have basically said nothing else to her and let her stew. I can't change anything. But, then I wondered, is there something I am not seeing?

Okay, I went back to your OP, to clarify. You said every week since he started this job, be has worked Saturday and 1 Sunday. Meaning that he has only seen his kids Saturday night and Sunday during the day. You also said that he goes to wrestling for "a couple hours" Saturday night, and that he gets them after. SO he doesn't see them Friday, all day Saturday, and most of Saturday evening.

YOU are telling her to find alternate plans. First, since he is supposed to have the kids on the weekends, you should be telling HIM to find alternate plans. YOU are telling her to have her parents watch them, and that YOU will pick them up when you are able.

Again, her parents may not want to watch them or may not be available, and it shouldn't be YOU communicating anything. If she asks you to babysit and you are unavailable, tell her just that. "Sorry, I can't" Your son needs to be making visitation agreements with her. Not you. You are overly involved. You needs to back out of the situation and let them deal with it. You are babysitting, they are not your kids. Your son is not. They are his responsibility. He needs to do whatever he needs to do to make sure his children have adequate housing and child care during the times he is unable to care for them. He needs to hire a sitter, commute, whatever, but he needs to find someone. Of course, he will probably have to pay them.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

If jobs are hard to come by in that area, I bet there are people who would jump at the chance to babysit for a few hours on weekends when DS has to work. Could be a win-win for everyone. DIL gets a break, DS gets to see daughters right when he gets home instead of doing a baby swap.

 

[badblackpug]

If jobs are hard to come by in that area, I bet there are people who would jump at the chance to babysit for a few hours on weekends when DS has to work. Could be a win-win for everyone. DIL gets a break, DS gets to see daughters right when he gets home instead of doing a baby swap.

Very true. I am sure there are more than a few teenagers that would like to make some pocket money.

How does she feel? Overwhelmed and taken advantage of. She asks for what equates to 2 days a week, and he doesn't come through. She gives him 3 weeks notice about a weekend where he needs to follow through with his responsibility and is getting another excuse.

She is frustrated, and disappointed, and angry. She is going through a a lot of changes herself. She is adjusting to being a single parent. She is facing all the emotions that come when your marriage fails. She is angry, depressed, frustrated, overwhelmed, and sad. She is asking her children's father to share the responsibility of parenting and make the same sacrifice she has made for their kids, and she is getting an excuse.

...and she is nicer than me, because we would have been in court by now.

 

[padams]

Very true. I am sure there are more than a few teenagers that would like to make some pocket money.

How does she feel? Overwhelmed and taken advantage of. She asks for what equates to 2 days a week, and he doesn't come through. She gives him 3 weeks notice about a weekend where he needs to follow through with his responsibility and is getting another excuse.

She is frustrated, and disappointed, and angry. She is going through a a lot of changes herself. She is adjusting to being a single parent. She is facing all the emotions that come when your marriage fails. She is angry, depressed, frustrated, overwhelmed, and sad. She is asking her children's father to share the responsibility of parenting and make the same sacrifice she has made for their kids, and she is getting an excuse.

...and she is nicer than me, because we would have been in court by now.

Best response on this thread.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Heavens no. Nothing even remotly like backyard wrestling. Have you ever watched Wwe? Very similar and there are families everywhere. Most of these folks that are working are like family and help watch the kids. They don't see his match. We used to go all the time. I would speak up if there was any problem with it. The only reason they don't see his matches is because he is a "bad guy " and having a smiling face yelling "I love you daddy" sort of throws off the effect.

I asked how she may feel not for everyones opinions of his job and how much he is home.

She is mad because he cannot guarantee to be home that weekend and I can't be there. Wrestling has nothing to do with that. He has already told the promoters he won't be there that weekend.

And you're mad because she has the audacity to expect the father of her children to make them a priority in his life. She is giving him 3 weeks' notice and that's not good enough but he obviously cancels at the last minute frequently. And I believe you mentioned somewhere that she does not have a vehicle yet has brought the girls to him on one occasion for his convenience. I can see why she wants out of the marriage.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

It sounds like the FT job is the problem that weekend, not wrestling. The FT job is dependent on the weather.

The problem is he is supposed to have the kids on the weekend, not the portions he chooses to have them, or the portions his work schedule permits. They need to work a schedule out that allows her to plan things she wants to do just like he plans to take those wrestling hours every weekend. He shouldn't be denied a guilty pleasure for his work of the week, neither should she. They are his kids too, so he should make sure he has set plans for their care on his watch and not let the mommies take care of things for him. He's big enough to make the babies, he's big enough to take care of things once a month or so.

 

[hellow]

And you're mad because she has the audacity to expect the father of her children to make them a priority in his life. She is giving him 3 weeks' notice and that's not good enough but he obviously cancels at the last minute frequently. And I believe you mentioned somewhere that she does not have a vehicle yet has brought the girls to him on one occasion for his convenience. I can see why she wants out of the marriage.

It's wierd, but fairly few of you see that he is working to provide for her and the kids. She has ample support from both families (which is pretty rare in this day and age). I understand her wanting to have some free time, but thanks to him working, she has enough money to spend a weekend at a concert, not have to work herself to put food on the table. Considering how many dead beat dads there are out there, I have a tendency to give credit where credit is due here.

The son needs to make some changes for sure, but maybe a lot of you don't want to see what he IS doing, you just see what he ISN'T doing.

 

[M2B]

He needs to find a secondary back up for when he is working. I don't think having Grandma as primary back up is a bad thing per se. However, the onus needs to be on the dad to make arrangements.

If the mom is accustomed to the girls being with dad or Grandma on the weekends, then that's what she expects. I don't think it's unreasonable. Giving dad 3 weeks notice that she is going away for a weekend seems like ample time for him to come up with Plan B.

 

[Skywalker]

You specifically asked for people to tell you how she feels so that you can understand. After over 100 posts of people telling you how she might feel you still defend your son so I'm getting you are choosing NOT to understand.

He is a parent to those kids. Yes, he is providing money but if his job is so "fantastic" and making such good money I am sure he can afford a little apartment by himself where HIS KIDS would be welcome, nor should he need to supplement his income with wrestling during the brief window he should be with them. (And someone babysitting them in the back of the arena or whereever does not count as him spending time with them.) Sounds more like something he wants to do, rather than needs to do.

You are obviously extremely biased toward your son. It sounds to me like he needs a grow up a bit. Not that he's a bad person or anything, but just needs to grow up a bit.

 

[shortbun]

Really??

I am honestly shocked that anyone would think that the ONLY person in a family of four who is bringing in a paycheck should quit a job so he can spend an extra two hours with his kids.

Yeah, really. It's wrestling for two hours and it keeps him from his children for the entire night. I'm not suggesting that his job out of town be sacrificed, just the Big Time Wrestling job that his mother first described as some sort of hobby. It was only after lots of criticism that she said he made money doing it. Hmmm. She would defend him in any scenario and still doesn't see how this could be damaging to his hanging by a thread marriage, his relationship with his daughters or his rights as a parent. Yeah, quit the wrestling. It's worthless and questionable. He lost his right to wrestle when he moved out of town leaving his wife alone with his children-no car, no money, no help.

 

[java]

Funny how taking care of kids actually involves more than having a job.
As a Mom I get why you are defending your son, but your question of tell me how she feels is pretty simple. She feels like he is seeing his daughters only when it is convenient for him. Kids don't work like that. They need care 24/7.

I think you need to support your son in hammering out some kind of custody arrangement that is in the best interest of the girls.

There is no agreement, no custody, no visitation agreement.


He does have them every possible moment he can in a given week (except for those couple of hours). He has driven home on the days he is rained out and spent the day with them.

I am afraid they are trying to "work together" on everything as much as possible and this is where they are beginning to see the need for some arrangements. Normally, they each will say that she has the kids unless he is home from work and then he will have them (their version of an arrangement ). But, that's just not going to work.

He is going to have to have something set in writing. One weekend he didn't see as much of their older child because she wanted to do something special with her. The child needs "mama" time without her little sister, but ds was really disappointed in not seeing her.

And I know, I shouldn't be in the middle of it. I was trying to help her and him by picking them up on Friday when he is not home but just can't do it again for a couple of months.

Just to note: It has nothing to do with what is convenient for him. He is working. He can't take off and doesn't have anyone up there that can keep his kids. He lives in a small apartment building that is housing to a bunch of construction guys--not an environment for two little girls. That's why he stays at my house on the weekends. If he has to work on Saturday, he could be fired for taking the day off even if it is to see his kids.