Ok, Tell Me How She Feels So That I Can Understand

[sookie]

Where am I wrong in this situation?

DS and DIL are separated. She moved out and moved in with her mom.

Right after she moved out, ds got a really fantastic job out of town. He is gone Mon-Fri, unless they have a rain-out and then he is gone Sat. too. He has an apartment in the town with his work, stays with me on the weekends so that he can see his dds.

Since he started the new job, he has worked every Saturday and one Sunday.

The first two weekends, I would meet her and get the girls on Friday nights so that they would be at my house when he got home. I can't do that now because dd has Show Choir competitions every weekend. The girls are too young to spend the day at a competition. I told dil that this was coming and that ds would get the girls when he got home. She got mad at me and acted like I don't want to see the girls. Which is not true at all.

Yesterday she texted me and I asked if "wanted" the girls. Of course I want them! But, dd has a competition Saturday and we won't be home until late. So I told her that she and ds would have to work out him picking them up Saturday night. (it worked out that he doesn't have to work Saturday so he is getting them now actually).

Then she sends another text that she is going out of state over the weekend in about 3 weeks and one of us would need to keep the girls. And that she told ds he needed to be in town as much as possible. She is going to a concert.

DS has all intentions of having the girls, so no real problem except I told her that IF he has to work that Saturday, I wouldn't be able to watch them due to another competition so she may need to have a back up just in case. So, now she is mad again.

Show choir season is only for 2-3 months and this just happens to be that time of year. I would keep the girls any other time, just not on days with competitions.

She is mad because ds might have to work and she is mad because I can't keep them if he does. DS told her that he cannot call in at work--it would be risking his job. So, I really don't know what she wants us to do.

Every moment he is off from work, he is with his daughters, except for a couple of hours on Saturday night when he goes to his wrestling show. He picks them up after or she brings them to him. He told her that he would let the promotion know that he wouldn't be there the weekend of the concert but that doesn't seem to be enough. I told her that its possible that if she can get her mom or dad to keep them, I would pick them up after the competition but I can't guarantee a time because it all depends on how the choir does. Not good enough.

So, I have basically said nothing else to her and let her stew. I can't change anything. But, then I wondered, is there something I am not seeing?

If weekends are his time, he needs to arrange a babysitter. She is probably contacting you since you are the pickup person, however, Dad needs to arrange a babysitter if he is going to have an irregular schedule.

She needs time off if she has to have the kids all week. It is unfair to her to ask her to to cover for dad if she has them all week since they split. She needs a break too.

 

[kellyg403]

OP, I also agree with others, your son should be shouldering the responsibilities of parenting on weekends. Where does the dil live? With her parents?

I can only say that, as a single parent at one time divorced from someone in the military who deployed frequently, your dil needs a break. I understand the logistics of the job your ds has taken and the sometimes working all weekend, sometimes not, maybe sometimes a day and not the other is fine for him because by all intents and purposes he is only thinking about making arrangements for one person..himself. Your dil is unable to make plans and have something to look forward to. When my ex was not deployed and able to get the kids on his weekends it was pure joy for me to be able to PLAN something, DO SOMETHING as an adult. My life revolved around the kids and the job. I became a much better mother and much better person just having 48 hours to myself I could plan on getting. Lets face it, if I didn't get out of my pj's and watched lifetime it was still time to do nothing, no one to be responsible for.

This is what your dil needs and she expects to get that need fulfilled by the other parent. I also agree, that you should step away and let them handle it. You are an easy target for the dil frustrations. If they decide to start working things out they have to figure out this first. The hard stuff and find a way to agree and do it.

Good luck!
Kelly

 

[mamacatnv]

OP this thread has been brutal enough. I have no advice, just some good thoughts and a This type of situation sucks for everyone and I am sorry you are going through it.

For what it's worth, I do think your first priority is to your DD and her activities. and see nothing wrong with making her your first priority.

 

[Granny square]

I was raised by a single mom and two sets of grandparents. Op, you are invaluable to those girls. But the mom has them always and needs and deserves time too. My dad lived in the Midwest so took no responsibility for us. I know looking back that she was exhausted. Their dad needs to take care of his responsibilities. You need to take care of yours to your other children also. Or more rightly you need to be allowed to enjoy your kids as well as your grand children.

 

[Buckalew11]

I agree with most posters here. I second everything BadBlackPug and Bob NC said.

Lets look at the examples this "man" has seen.

1 - His dad is an alcoholic and his parents divorce when he and his brother are young.

2 - His step dad works out of town 6 out of 7 days a week and works on paperwork when he is home for 24-26 hours.

3 - His brother, who is about 30, has been twice married and divorced. The bother lived away from the wife(wives) most of the time for his job.

4 - He and his girlfriend have a baby and have to live with his grandmother because they cannot afford their own place. They get married and make another child while still unable to support themselves.

5 - His wife leaves him and he takes a job away and then spends little time with his kids.

And this is a surprise?

Hmm...

Yes, it sounds like it is time to grow up.


As you know, my sister and BIL have just gone through a divorce (final today!!--it has been 4 long years!) Anyway, he spent little time with his 4 kids and then started saying, "I'm taking them on vacation soon and they'll have my undivided attention." Went to his mom's beach house and what's he do? Leaves them there and takes off by himself every night. His son reminded him of what he had told them about spending time with them and he leaves again. BIL's mom says to her DGS, "Leave him alone. He needs time alone, away from you kids." Really?! He was always away since they separated!! And the DGS let her know it too! Good for him.

Kids can feel very unwanted and your son needs to step up, man up, and spend time with his 2 daughters. That DIL will need a break and should be able to make weekend plans when that's his only time to see his children.

 

[Robbi]

OP this thread has been brutal enough. I have no advice, just some good thoughts and a This type of situation sucks for everyone and I am sorry you are going through it.

For what it's worth, I do think your first priority is to your DD and her activities. and see nothing wrong with making her your first priority.

I agree with this.

OP, from what I've read, your DIL is contacting you because you are more responsible than your son is. At least she knows you try to help.
Has this been a problem for them though that you pretty much pick up your son's slack thus enabling him to continue his irresponsible behavior towards his family?

I was reading along, feeling sorry that your son was very busy and really trying to see his children until I read about the wrestling. He lost all of my sympathy with that remark. What if this was an opposite situation with your son being the primary caregiver? Hewould like a break after caring for the children all week and your DIL's mother picks up the kids on Fri. Then your DIL goes to the gym for a few hours rather than spending the precious few hours she has with her kids?

Sometimes looking at a situation from the other person's standpoint can make it clearer why a person is angry.

 

[minkydog]

Lets look at the examples this "man" has seen.

1 - His dad is an alcoholic and his parents divorce when he and his brother are young.

2 - His step dad works out of town 6 out of 7 days a week and works on paperwork when he is home for 24-26 hours.

3 - His brother, who is about 30, has been twice married and divorced. The bother lived away from the wife(wives) most of the time for his job.

4 - He and his girlfriend have a baby and have to live with his grandmother because they cannot afford their own place. They get married and make another child while still unable to support themselves.

5 - His wife leaves him and he takes a job away and then spends little time with his kids.

And this is a surprise?

Oh, well, that totally gives him a free pass.

 

[luvsJack]

Ok lets start over here. Ds had a low paying job and couldn't find anything else until this came up. He is making 3 to 4 times as much money as he was and is able to support his family. His hours are from 5am until 6. He is too far away to come home every night. He and 2 other guys share an apartment and the whole complex is guys that work for this company. No wives or families. They all go home on the weekends.

Wrestling is not keeping him from his kids. In fact tomorrow night he is taking them with him to the show. Last week dil went to the show and brought the girls to him. He has picked them up after the show when he was going later because of work. It makes him about 2 hours later.

He does not ask me to keep his kids when he has them. He never asked me to get them on those couple of weekends, she did. He didn't even know she asked me about the concert weekend. She asked me because of the possibility of his working.

If he has to work on Saturday he can't just run and get his kids on Fridays . He would be picking them up around 8 driving back and leaving them the next morning at4.

Dil does not have the kids to herself all week. Her mom keeps them. I have kept them. My mom has kept them. Oldest dgd goes to preschool and we all help her get her there and home again. She does not have a job and does not have a car so we all help her. On Wednesdays I take the girls to church. Ds supports her and the girls.

I have never had any problem getting along with her. She is a sweet girl. She loves her girls and always seemed to love ds.

When I was a single mom, my ex. worked offshore, I didn't expect him to quit his job or find a baby-sitter when he was at work. I really don't quite get this mentality. If ds doesn't have this job whom exactly is going to buy diapers?

 

[luvsJack]

double post

 

[Scurvy]

This thread reminds me of my cousin. He's divorced and has one child. The child's mother has primary custody and my cousin is supposed to have the child for some weekends and vacations. My aunt loves her grandson and enjoys spending time with him. My cousin, on the other hand, spends no time with the child. My aunt handles all the communications with the child's mother, and she's in charge of keeping the child on the weekends when he's supposed to be with his father. The father has nothing to do with any of it, because the child just isn't a priority for him.

OP, you shouldn't be put in the middle of this. It should be your son's responsibility to arrange childcare when he's supposed to have his children. The mother shouldn't have to put her plans on hold or arrange for a babysitter, and I imagine she is understandably angry and frustrated by essentially being a single parent even though the children do have a father. She shouldn't be taking that out on you, of course. However, given what you've posted, it sounds to me like you are somewhat in the same position my aunt is in. She has -voluntarily in her case, though maybe not in yours - essentially taken over for her son. Her ex daughter-in-law is essentially sharing custody with my aunt instead of the child's father. If that's how your ex daughter-in-law sees the situation, it's understandable that she's transferring some of the irritation she feels toward her irresponsible ex onto you instead.

I think you have to decide what role you want to have in your grandchildren's lives. Do you basically want to stand in for your son since he's not going to be a full time (or even half time) father? Do you want to see them whenever their mother will let you, but not on any kind of set schedule? Decide what role you want to fill and then try to make that work, but don't feel obligated to do more than you want to do. Just realize that if you back off and make your son take charge, and he doesn't become more responsible, he may lose custody. That might mean that if you don't maintain a good relationship with your daughter-in-law you might not get much time with your grandchildren. I know my aunt has really struggled with that. It's a difficult situation to be in. Good luck!

 

[luvsJack]

Those poor little girls.

I can't imagine how they perceive the whole situation-- Daddy moved out of the city to an apartment we can't visit. We can see daddy once every so often at grandma's if it's not raining or he's not wrestling... I hope he can squeeze us in.

When they look back at this time in their lives, how will they view their dad's actions?

Oh wow. He is at work. He doesn't take them to a strange city to an apartment filled with men.

Would you feel better if I said he quit work so that he could be with them every day and is living off the government? He couldn't find another job. There are few jobs to be had which is why his brother works offshore and Dh drives a truck. Jobs in this town pay very little.

 

[leebee]

Ok lets start over here. Ds had a low paying job and couldn't find anything else until this came up. He is making 3 to 4 times as much money as he was and is able to support his family. His hours are from 5am until 6. He is too far away to come home every night. He and 2 other guys share an apartment and the whole complex is guys that work for this company. No wives or families. They all go home on the weekends.

Wrestling is not keeping him from his kids. In fact tomorrow night he is taking them with him to the show. Last week dil went to the show and brought the girls to him. He has picked them up after the show when he was going later because of work. It makes him about 2 hours later.

He does not ask me to keep his kids when he has them. He never asked me to get them on those couple of weekends, she did. He didn't even know she asked me about the concert weekend. She asked me because of the possibility of his working.

If he has to work on Saturday he can't just run and get his kids on Fridays . He would be picking them up around 8 driving back and leaving them the next morning at4.

Dil does not have the kids to herself all week. Her mom keeps them. I have kept them. My mom has kept them. Oldest dgd goes to preschool and we all help her get her there and home again. She does not have a job and does not have a car so we all help her. On Wednesdays I take the girls to church. Ds supports her and the girls.

I have never had any problem getting along with her. She is a sweet girl. She loves her girls and always seemed to love ds.

When I was a single mom, my ex. worked offshore, I didn't expect him to quit his job or find a baby-sitter when he was at work. I really don't quite get this mentality. If ds doesn't have this job whom exactly is going to buy diapers?

I wish you'd included all this information in your first post; perhaps people would have seen the situation more clearly and been less judgmental. I thought your ds probably took a job that he NEEDED; why else would he move away from his kids, unless it was to take a job to support his family? It amazes me that people so blithely say "get a different job." Have you tried that lately? Easier said than done. Also, regardless of what people think about him doing it, he gets paid to wrestle; it's a second job. Given the physical demands and risk, my guess is that he makes more in a 2 hour wrestling gig than he would working two hours at, say, a convenience food store or gas station, if they'd even hire him for only two hours.

It's clear that your dil gets plenty of support and help with the kids during the week. It sounds like you, your dil, and her mom all live in the same town, or at least nearby. It's great that everyone helps support your dil by taking care of the kids, driving them to where they need to be, etc. It sounds like everyone gets along OK, and loves the kids.

Your ds and dil need to sit down and figure out a visitation/custody agreement for show choir season. For right now, it sounds like one parent needs to hire a babysitter for the concert weekend, even if it means your son agrees not to see the kids until Sunday that weekend, so they can stay in their own home with a babysitter while their mom goes to the concert. However, they need to come up with a plan for show choir season. If you are unable to be the back-up for Saturday childcare in the event your son has to work, maybe during show choir season your son should only have the girls Saturday evenings and Sundays, and then revisit the schedule once you are able to help him again on Saturdays (in the event that he has to work). I do not think that for one second you should skip your daughter's competitions. My dd is a dancer, and I go to all her performances (10 shows of Nutcracker last fall!) unless something completely unavoidable (like my mil's wedding) happens.

 

[Planogirl]

Is he trying to get somewhere as a wrestler? I can understand wanting a hobby or sideline and it's great that he can take the kids.

It sounds to me like he's in a tough situation but he might have to make some changes. I hope that they can work it out.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I am completely biased about this entire situation, so let me give you my skewed point of view. You have enabled your son to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. You pick up the pieces. Then when DIL expects it of you, you balk at her, not him. DIL would like a little consistency for herself as well as her girls, but your son cannot offer that. He does not find the time he should to spend with his girls and if they're that little, she shouldn't be picking them up at 8, 9, 10 p.m. (I believe you said something about picking them up late, although maybe I read that wrong). And the time will come when his daughter's will reject him. He is unable to find time for them now. They will be unable to find time for him later. And his feelings will be hurt. And he will talk about how his daughters are disrespecting him. Am I projecting here, or maybe this is the way it is. You reap when you sow.

 

[Turn the Page]

Oh wow. He is at work. He doesn't take them to a strange city to an apartment filled with men.

Would you feel better if I said he quit work so that he could be with them every day and is living off the government? He couldn't find another job. There are few jobs to be had which is why his brother works offshore and Dh drives a truck. Jobs in this town pay very little.

I don't think anyone is saying he should just up and quit the job on Monday. What people are saying is he should make an effort to find something that fits his life better. Like it or not he has responsibilities at home that extend beyond paying child support. The kids need a relationship with their father too.

I think you lost a lot of us with the wrestling. It may just be two hours a week but given that he only has generally one day a week to spend with them and he takes two of those hours to go play with his friends that is in fact a crappy thing to do. It's not just the house he has to spend with his kids but how he spends those hours. Taking off to wrestle for two hours on the one day a week he usually gets to see them would be unacceptable to me.

And it is his responsibility to find a babysitter because he is supposed to be responsible for the kids on the weekend. If he can't/won't show up when he is supposed to it is his responsibility to make sure the kids are cared for.

 

[badblackpug]

Ok lets start over here. Ds had a low paying job and couldn't find anything else until this came up. He is making 3 to 4 times as much money as he was and is able to support his family. His hours are from 5am until 6. He is too far away to come home every night. He and 2 other guys share an apartment and the whole complex is guys that work for this company. No wives or families. They all go home on the weekends.

Wrestling is not keeping him from his kids. In fact tomorrow night he is taking them with him to the show. Last week dil went to the show and brought the girls to him. He has picked them up after the show when he was going later because of work. It makes him about 2 hours later.

He does not ask me to keep his kids when he has them. He never asked me to get them on those couple of weekends, she did. He didn't even know she asked me about the concert weekend. She asked me because of the possibility of his working.

If he has to work on Saturday he can't just run and get his kids on Fridays . He would be picking them up around 8 driving back and leaving them the next morning at4.

Dil does not have the kids to herself all week. Her mom keeps them. I have kept them. My mom has kept them. Oldest dgd goes to preschool and we all help her get her there and home again. She does not have a job and does not have a car so we all help her. On Wednesdays I take the girls to church. Ds supports her and the girls.

I have never had any problem getting along with her. She is a sweet girl. She loves her girls and always seemed to love ds.

When I was a single mom, my ex. worked offshore, I didn't expect him to quit his job or find a baby-sitter when he was at work. I really don't quite get this mentality. If ds doesn't have this job whom exactly is going to buy diapers?

I get what you are saying and I understand people need to work, but that is really neither here, nor there. Having done my stomp through family court, here is what will happen.

His ex, since she, technically has the children 6 days a week, will be given primary custody. Also since she has them 6 days a week will be awarded child support in an amount that is commensurate with having the children 6 nights a week (she is probably, at this juncture eligible for AFDC, if she files they will summons him for a child support hearing)

The judge will not want to hear that he doesn't have a home suitable for his children. He will be told to acquire one, or he will not be allowed over night visitation, which will increase his child support again. The judge will not want to hear that he has wrestling, or has to work, or has no sitter on his court ordered days. He will be told to find an appropriate sitter, and pay for it if he has to. Really, I have been there, and done that. The judge also doesn't want to hear anything about any grandparents.

My ex had custody of his daughter. We had all the same issues with his ex as your daughter in law has with your son. She didn't have a car. The judge told her "You are responsible for 50% of the transportation, find a ride, get on the bus, do what you have to do." She was living in a 2 bedroom apartment that she was sharing with her mother and a younger sibling. The judge told her, "the child needs a room, not a room she shares with an adult, her own room, find somewhere appropriate to live, or you don't get overnight visitation." She would do the same and cancel picking her up on her weekends at the last minute, sometimes leaving us scrambling for a sitter. The judge told her that unless it were an emergency, advance notice was needed to change the visitation agreement, and both parties must agree. Child care on her days was her responsibility.

Your son is an adult. They are his kids, too. Regardless of how you may have handled visitation with your ex, it is not a situation which works for your son and daughter in law. You are the grandmother, not the parent, they are not your kids and you are under no obligation to care for them. Her parents are also under no obligation to care for them. If you are both volunteering and helping out, that is nice, but in the end they are both adults and must come to a compromise.

Sometimes as parents we have to sacrifice. I'm married, and there are things I have to give up because the kids are a priority, it is doubly hard if you are a single parent. Your son needs to work on getting his situation settled and providing a home for his children. If that means he has to commute, or give up some recreation time, so be it. Your only responsibility is your child. Your son is responsible for his.

I have a teen daughter who babysits when we need her. (she gets paid, though) At no time ever do I consider it her responsibility. They aren't her kids. So if we ask her to sit and she has plans, too bad, so sad. We have to find another sitter, or stay home. You need to make your son step up to the plate and take care of his responsibilities.

Being a father is more than handing over a check.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I can see her point.

She has the kids most of the time, he's supposed to have them for a portion of the time. If he is supposed to have them on the weekends then its up to him to take care of finding someone to watch them, not hers. Also, his expense if there is one, not hers. He can't just say he has work, or wrestling. They are his responsibility too, not just hers.

Having someone take the kids for a couple hours here and there isn't the same as not having the kids for a weekend and being able to do what you want for a while. I think they need to sit down and figure this out some more. She is deserving of a night or two off too. Maybe two weekends a month he can take them and/or have someone in place to watch them if he is working or wants to do something? It's not as if she isn't giving plenty of notice that she has an event she wants to go to.

I mean, lets turn it around this way, she gets a boyfriend and moves 50 miles away and she doesn't want to drop the girls off on the weekends because they have soccer and ballet and friends they want to play with and sleep overs they want to go too. Does she get to NOT let them visit him because her life is too busy?

 

[luvsJack]

Folks I am not sure where this derailed. It was TWO Fridays that I picked up the girls. He did not ask me to. SHE did. He came home the next day and got them.

He is seeing his kids every weekend. He cannot get them on Friday if he has to work on Saturday. As soon as he gets home he gets them. Y'all are reading way too much into the whole wrestling thing. He can take them with him or simply stop by the venue on his way home--he has done both.
I do not take care of them for him. I keep them more for her than I do him.

I feel bad for the girls and worry about them. I see them as much as I can. but dd doesn't drive yet and has to be transported where she needs to go. and I have a job plus school.

Ds did not make the choice to live seperatly she did.

I know what its like to be a single mom. I also understand the working away from home. Neither one is easy but sometimes you have to make it work.

All of this started about a weekend she plans to be out of state for a concert. Wrestling has nothing to do with that weekend. Working at a job he needs so that his kids have clothes and food and diapers is the only thing that will make him unable to have them the whole time she is gone.

Taking them with him to work is not an option, finding a sitter near his work is not an option. Quiting his job is not an option. Picking them up Friday evening and having them with him until he leaves on Sunday is the best thing to do and what he will do if he can. But he cannot control the weather and he cannot control what his job requires.

His dad was rarely in his life. he and his brother were rarely a priority to their dad. He would rather be in a bar shooting pool than seeing his sons. I know what an absent father looks like and I can guarantee you this is not it.

He is here right now WITH his daughters. He came home, picked them up, got them something to eat, watched cartoons with them, got their baths and just got everybody to bed. Tomorrow they are going to the park and then they are going with him to the show. Sunday they will go to church and he is planning on the afternoon at the playground before he has to leave fore work. WOW. Wish his father would have been such a "horrible" parent.

 

[luvsJack]

I wish you'd included all this information in your first post; perhaps people would have seen the situation more clearly and been less judgmental. I thought your ds probably took a job that he NEEDED; why else would he move away from his kids, unless it was to take a job to support his family? It amazes me that people so blithely say "get a different job." Have you tried that lately? Easier said than done. Also, regardless of what people think about him doing it, he gets paid to wrestle; it's a second job. Given the physical demands and risk, my guess is that he makes more in a 2 hour wrestling gig than he would working two hours at, say, a convenience food store or gas station, if they'd even hire him for only two hours.

It's clear that your dil gets plenty of support and help with the kids during the week. It sounds like you, your dil, and her mom all live in the same town, or at least nearby. It's great that everyone helps support your dil by taking care of the kids, driving them to where they need to be, etc. It sounds like everyone gets along OK, and loves the kids.

Your ds and dil need to sit down and figure out a visitation/custody agreement for show choir season. For right now, it sounds like one parent needs to hire a babysitter for the concert weekend, even if it means your son agrees not to see the kids until Sunday that weekend, so they can stay in their own home with a babysitter while their mom goes to the concert. However, they need to come up with a plan for show choir season. If you are unable to be the back-up for Saturday childcare in the event your son has to work, maybe during show choir season your son should only have the girls Saturday evenings and Sundays, and then revisit the schedule once you are able to help him again on Saturdays (in the event that he has to work). I do not think that for one second you should skip your daughter's competitions. My dd is a dancer, and I go to all her performances (10 shows of Nutcracker last fall!) unless something completely unavoidable (like my mil's wedding) happens.

Thank you. You have given some good suggestions and I think I will pass them along. I think they have reached a point of seeing the need for a bit more of a formal agreement. They really are trying to get along and work this out together but sometimes wires just get crossed.

Thank you again.

 

[Jennasis]

So he's taking his little girls to watch essentially backyard wrestling? Is HE one of the wrestlers? Are these girls watching their dad get beat up (or beat up another person)??

Best thing you can do is to try to extricate yourself from the situation as much as possible. Offer what assistance you can when asked and don't feel guilty when you can't. They are the parents and it's up to them to arrange care for their children.

BTW, many people have offered to explain "how she feels so that you can understand" but you don't seem to want to hear it. I don't know what you really want (other than people to side with you and your son perhaps?). Unfortunately it sounds like a crappy situation for everyone involved.