Lost guests due to insane planning requirements?

[EdmondD]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

 

[redsbe]

Saw plenty of people at WDW looking at maps, deciding what to do next, not based on planning, so need for planning does not appear to be impacting number of visitors. ADR meals aside, and depending on crowd levels, if you use RD and EMH you can get plenty done in any park most days of the year - perhaps not everything and certainly not multiple rides on most popular attractions, but still lots to see and do even without FPs.

 

[sunshinemelody]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

I agree.

This is the first trip I'm planning. I've only been to WDW once and a friend flew me down and took me places. Nothing was planned that entire trip, we just went and did whatever we wanted.

This trip? Gives me anxiety. We're less than 3 months out (yay!), but I can see that my boyfriend gets frustrated when I talk to him about things that ought not need to be talked about because it should be a breeze. And it sucks. It really does. I can't imagine how your friend feels knowing that she knows relatively nothing than what she has seen on the TV or on the interwebs. I hope that this trip goes over well for her, though. If I could see the magic the first time around (with no plan), I bet she'll see the magic and want to come again, too.

 

[wilkeliza]

Saw plenty of people at WDW looking at maps, deciding what to do next, not based on planning, so need for planning does not appear to be impacting number of visitors. ADR meals aside, and depending on crowd levels, if you use RD and EMH you can get plenty done in any park most days of the year - perhaps not everything and certainly not multiple rides on most popular attractions, but still lots to see and do even without FPs.

You don't even need EMH and Rope Drop.

I'm 4 days to a trip and made a few dinning reservations yesterday and have adjusted our fastpasses several times. We aren't eating at random times of really stuck to a schedule.

Of course my travel group all agrees that not eating at a specific restaurant or having to wait for a must do will ruin our vacation. Perhaps it is because we have gone so much but even in the beginning we didn't let the things we missed be a negative to our trip. We focused on what we were able to do and not what we weren't.

Also we hardly ever plan 180 days and 60 days out. We definitely did not for this trip as we only decided to do it less than 30 days ago. Our September trip is a little more planned but still for 7 days we have 3 dinning reservations and will decide others as we figure out the rest of the trip. Once again if there is something we must do but don't get FP for we'll wait (I'm looking at you Frozen!) but even our must do massive reservation I didn't make at exactly 180 days. It was more like 150 or 120 days but I still got it.

 

[WhollyHeretic]

We didn't book our trip for next week (9 days away!) until 5 weeks out. We didn't really have and specifics as far as ADRs we need to do and we were able to get nice places for dinner each night at a good time and a character breakfast at Tusker House. We also got all the FP+ we wanted. Even got the FP+ times we wanted by checking back a couple times and doing a little shuffling.

 

[ravenclawtrekkie]

I just looked at dining for a party of four exactly five months from today and I see lots of options. I can get lunch at Be Our Guest or Liberty Tree Tavern, at 50s PTC or Mama Melrose, at Tusker House or Yak & Yeti, and at numerous places in Epcot - all in the 12 o'clock hour, which I think is a reasonable lunch time?

Dinner is slimmer pickings but there's still plenty of places available, they're just mostly not the overhyped ones. Tell her to look at resort dining for more availability and (usually) better food if they want sit-down dinners.

 

[Jennasis]

By very very few dining options I assume she means she can't get premium places like breakfast at CRT or BoG? Cause there are MANY MANY dining options 5 months from today.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Oh, I agree 100%. I love Disney. I go 1+ times a year, DVC member, etc. i tell everyone to go - I am one of their biggest ambassadors.

However, I have to admit the current system has me frustrated as I can be. That said, I have also thought about it and I don't have a solution either.

The problem is that the parks are too packed. I'm not sure Disney isn't happy to have packed parks, but let's just say they were for the sake of argument. Say they agreed that it's difficult to handle the crowds they have. What's the solution?

The obvious economic solution - raise prices - would make everyone upset. After all, they already complain about Disney prices as it is. Do we really want them to have to raise prices to the point where it manages the crowds down?
build more? they are expanding at probably a more than reasonably 'safe' growth rate right now. I don't see a fifth gate being manageable right now, and even if they did, wouldn't the crowds just surge? that might not fix it.
Close the gates? YEAH, RIGHT. Already it's ugly when MK has to close the gates.

So how do you solve it? If you were given the ability to guide Disney's strategy, how would you solve the problems of ADR's and limited FP's?

 

[jaceraden]

I disagree.

I feel like there's the DIS way, no planning and everything in between. All of these styles can result in fantastic trips and crappy trips. It's all about personality style and managing expectations. There's plenty of fun and magic to be had without FP+ and ADRs.

 

[Klayfish]

I disagree. Not staying on property and not eating their food makes it much easier for us. The only thing we do is FP+ at the 30 day mark, and we have almost no issues whatsoever. Stress free and fun, no 12 month planning needed. Heck, I have no doubt we could plan a trip a week or two in advance, and while we may not hit every e-ticket ride at exactly the time we want, we'd have a magical time. I find it so much better to bring our own food.

 

[sndral]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. ...

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better. ...

If she's never been why does she think there's no desirable place to eat, since she doesn't know what she likes/dislikes.
I just randomly checked 5 months from now (Nov. 6) and found openings after 4 pm (and most in the prime 5-6 pm slot) for 61 restaurants. Garden Gill, which has characters at dinner has openings, Coral Reef, which most kids love because of the aquarium has an opening, etc.. Rather than focusing on what she 'missed' by not being up at dawn at 180+10, why not look at what is available on which dates, look at her park plans and help her pick what might appeal to her family near where she plans to be for each dinner.
Regarding the dinning plan, lots of people don't use it - but when I was super conscious about my budget it was worth it to me to know food was already paid for. Plus it really minimized my tendency to order what was cheapest to save money or to inwardly groan when my son ordered something that was expensive - it was worth it to me to just relax about the cost of food because I'd already paid for it (except for tips.) So just another perspective on why some like having a dinning plan.

 

[bnhonest]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

To be fair, it's people like us that created this environment. We're the ones who are at the park when it opens, who made it impossible for the average joe tourist to show up at 11:30 and get on good rides with little wait times. We're the ones that were gobbling up paper fast passes by 11:00. We're the ones who demanded that we should be able to plan our vacations 6 months in advance, who book up dinner reservations and fast passes alike so that when average joe tourist learns that how the game is played, it's too late for them. Not saying we planners are wrong for planning. But let's be honest, we're all just looking for a competitive advantage to make sure we get our money's worth of our Disney trip. Disney has tried to level the he playing field for average joe tourist and it just hasn't worked.

 

[Love Tink]

I just looked at dining for a party of four exactly five months from today and I see lots of options. I can get lunch at Be Our Guest or Liberty Tree Tavern, at 50s PTC or Mama Melrose, at Tusker House or Yak & Yeti, and at numerous places in Epcot - all in the 12 o'clock hour, which I think is a reasonable lunch time?

Dinner is slimmer pickings but there's still plenty of places available, they're just mostly not the overhyped ones. Tell her to look at resort dining for more availability and (usually) better food if they want sit-down dinners.

When people look for dining well in advance, and have trouble, the trouble isn't that there is *nowhere* to eat. The problem is that the most in-demand places, or the places they most wanted, are "sold out." I don't think anyone is contending that it is impossible to find a reservation anywhere.

Resort dining is often more available because for many people it is less desirable - not everyone is willing to give up the park time it takes to eat at a hotel.

 

[xlsm]

My first piece of advice for someone who is starting to panic (using ONLY ADRs as an example), is to STOP looking at what is NOT available, and just look at what IS available. For instance, I just did a random search for Oct. 20 at 6pm, 4 guests. I got options for Boathouse, Artist Point, Cali Grill, Biergarten, Boatwrights, Boma, Crystal Palace, Brown Derby Fantasmic pkg, illuminations dessert party, and lots more.

For Nov. 29th - Hoop de Doo, Boma, Citricos, Chefs de France, GFlo Cafe, Kona, Raglan Road, and more.

12/2 - Crystal Palace, Spirit of Aloha, Hoop, Le Cellier, Liberty Tree, Mickey's Backyard BBQ, San Angel, The Wave, etc...

My point being, visiting too many websites for a first timer can create anxiety. I usually try to steer people to only a couple of places, and never the Disboards (unless I think they can handle it, or for specific bits of advice. I usually recommend it for people on second or third trips and beyond).

Is Chef Mickey, BOG, 'Ohana, etc missing from my quick search? Sure, but there are still other solid options.

Try to remind your friend that just because the internet says it's a "must do", it isn't always the best choice, and Disney has lots of options that are just as good (or better!) than the hard to get reservations. Someone who doesn't know any better would think they had multiple options...because they do!

Good for you for telling her not to let the food rule! There are so many reasons to be excited about the trip, and it doesn't have to be stressful, even with solid planning. Planning doesn't have to make you crazy, it's there to enhance and ensure that you know where to go, how to get there, and what timeline will work best for each family.

Tell your friend to breathe and have fun!!

So much information can be overwhelming, which is why the info straight from Disney is maybe a little limited...it's when you branch off their website and start digging that you find out things that can make guests worry and stress. For a person who is strictly using the Disney site to learn and plan, they don't even realize they're doing anything that a Disboarder would think is "wrong". They get an email to make dining reservations, they go see whats available and book. They get an email to make FPs, they go make them, none the wiser that they could have been hovering over a keyboard at the crack of dawn. That's learned elsewhere. They still go and have fun.

I think for people who go a lot and plan a lot, the whole concept of that is very foreign, and causes much head shaking and wide eyed confusion, LOL!!

 

[ChloesDaddy]

The DDP seems to be a big source of stress for people and has little or no economic benefit. Eating contest champions may come out ahead, but not the average family. Can they just drop it from their plan?

 

[ravenclawtrekkie]

When people look for dining well in advance, and have trouble, the trouble isn't that there is *nowhere* to eat. The problem is that the most in-demand places, or the places they most wanted, are "sold out." I don't think anyone is contending that it is impossible to find a reservation anywhere.

Resort dining is often more available because for many people it is less desirable - not everyone is willing to give up the park time it takes to eat at a hotel.

The exact quote from the OP was "very, very few dining options available" - which isn't true. That's all my point was.

I'm aware that not everyone wants to dine at resorts. But it is an option, and in many cases, not difficult. It's easy to exit MK and take the monorail to eat. It's easy to exit EC or DHS to go to a Boardwalk-area restaurant. DAK is the only one that's really a pain, and AKL isn't far and has great food. A lunch or even early dinner at one of these places can be a great "afternoon break."

 

[capegirl]

The DDP seems to be a big source of stress for people and has little or no economic benefit. Eating contest champions may come out ahead, but not the average family. Can they just drop it from their plan?

I know that the DDP is popular with many guests, particularly when it's free, but I have to say DDP has lost it's appeal for me. It drives me crazy to have too many ADRs. Not only did I have to plan around all of these meals, but I was constantly checking my phone to make sure we made it to the ADRs in time. Between FP+ and ADRs, our park days were way too regimented, and not enjoyable. I now make a couple of key ADRs, and I add them on a day to day basis once we arrive.
Much less stressful, and we always find somewhere great to eat.

 

[JimmyV]

I disagree.

You didn't quote anything, so it is unclear what it is that you are disagreeing with. The balance of your post makes perfect sense. Different strokes for different folks. There are uber planners who have great vacations and non-planners who do too. But it seems as if you are disagreeing with the OP's story, and, inasmuch as it is a firsthand factual account of someone's story and the stress that they are experiencing, it seems impossible to "diagree" with anything there. If the person in the story feels stressed, then they feel stressed. There is nothing with which to agree or disagree. We either believe the story, or we think it is a lie. But if someone tells you that they feel stressed, you can't "disagree" with their personal feeling.

 

[Hikergirl]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

She's still got 5 months! Plenty of people plan a WDW vacation in less time than that and have a great time. Some of us hardly plan at all and have a great time.

 

[redsbe]

You don't even need EMH and Rope Drop.

I'm 4 days to a trip and made a few dinning reservations yesterday and have adjusted our fastpasses several times. We aren't eating at random times of really stuck to a schedule.

Of course my travel group all agrees that not eating at a specific restaurant or having to wait for a must do will ruin our vacation. Perhaps it is because we have gone so much but even in the beginning we didn't let the things we missed be a negative to our trip. We focused on what we were able to do and not what we weren't.

Also we hardly ever plan 180 days and 60 days out. We definitely did not for this trip as we only decided to do it less than 30 days ago. Our September trip is a little more planned but still for 7 days we have 3 dinning reservations and will decide others as we figure out the rest of the trip. Once again if there is something we must do but don't get FP for we'll wait (I'm looking at you Frozen!) but even our must do massive reservation I didn't make at exactly 180 days. It was more like 150 or 120 days but I still got it.

If you are looking to experience the most popular attractions when crowds are higher, EMH RD, and/or FP are essential. Last week (crowd level 8+) those were 1+ hr waits by mid morning and rest of the day. Without using RD and FP we would have missed out on experiencing the top 3-4 attractions at each park without spending hours in lines.