Lost guests due to insane planning requirements?

[BrianL]

Disney did not create this system. Overwhelming customer demand did. They are trying ot manage it the best they can. Ther eis only so much bandwidth for everything, and with attendance going up and up and up, it's going to be hard to book the popular restaurants. I can't imagine though that at 5 months out there are no ADR's left anywhere. CRT and BOG are probably the only ones with zero availability.

 

[redsbe]

To be fair, it's people like us that created this environment. We're the ones who are at the park when it opens, who made it impossible for the average joe tourist to show up at 11:30 and get on good rides with little wait times. We're the ones that were gobbling up paper fast passes by 11:00. We're the ones who demanded that we should be able to plan our vacations 6 months in advance, who book up dinner reservations and fast passes alike so that when average joe tourist learns that how the game is played, it's too late for them. Not saying we planners are wrong for planning. But let's be honest, we're all just looking for a competitive advantage to make sure we get our money's worth of our Disney trip. Disney has tried to level the he playing field for average joe tourist and it just hasn't worked.

It is not just us, but the millions of more WDW visitors compared to 10-15 years ago and very little major expansion in most of the parks. Each park still has only 2-4 major headline attractions, that most everyone of those millions wants to experience during their visit.

 

[wilkeliza]

If you are looking to experience the most popular attractions when crowds are higher, EMH RD, and/or FP are essential. Last week (crowd level 8+) those were 1+ hr waits by mid morning and rest of the day. Without using RD and FP we would have missed out on experiencing the top 3-4 attractions at each park without spending hours in lines.

That's true but everyone does still have the option to wait if it really is a must do. Even with FP I have found myself having to wait hours for rides because of the tiers. I was just stating that you don't have to do commando style touring to have an enjoyable vacation and yes you still can do all the top attractions it may just take a little longer. Every style will depend on what works for each family. Someone could commando style every park and ride every ride and say their vacation was terrible. Some could wait in line for the popular attractions but go with the flow and still walk away saying wow that was a great vacation. It really is going to depend on the family.

 

[redsbe]

I disagree. Not staying on property and not eating their food makes it much easier for us. The only thing we do is FP+ at the 30 day mark, and we have almost no issues whatsoever. Stress free and fun, no 12 month planning needed. Heck, I have no doubt we could plan a trip a week or two in advance, and while we may not hit every e-ticket ride at exactly the time we want, we'd have a magical time. I find it so much better to bring our own food.

All depends on crowd levels and if you are interested in the top attractions, and have limited flexibility in your travel plans, such as small number of park days. Try booking PP or 7DM at 30 days for mid July, your options will be very limited especially if you only have one set day in MK. I agree you can have a magical time without the e-ticket rides but for a first time or infrequent visitor who really wants to experience them is going to have to plan in advance.

 

[redsbe]

That's true but everyone does still have the option to wait if it really is a must do. Even with FP I have found myself having to wait hours for rides because of the tiers. I was just stating that you don't have to do commando style touring to have an enjoyable vacation and yes you still can do all the top attractions it may just take a little longer. Every style will depend on what works for each family. Someone could commando style every park and ride every ride and say their vacation was terrible. Some could wait in line for the popular attractions but go with the flow and still walk away saying wow that was a great vacation. It really is going to depend on the family.

Having to stand inline for 90 minutes plus in the heat of the summer day with 4 kids is another form of going "commando" and certain way to ruin most WDW vacations, if all day, and day after day. Again perhaps you and others would be satisfied to go with the flow and feel they had a great vacation, someone with first time or perhaps never going again, and spending 1000s $$$ and they just need to see or ride Space Mountain may feel quite different. Do not relate your experience and level of enjoyment with others as their expectations could be much different.

 

[wilkeliza]

Having to stand inline for 90 minutes plus in the heat of the summer day with 4 kids is another form of going "commando" and certain way to ruin most WDW vacations, if all day, and day after day. Again perhaps you and others would be satisfied to go with the flow and feel they had a great vacation, someone with first time or perhaps never going again, and spending 1000s $$$ and they just need to see or ride Space Mountain may feel quite different. Do not relate your experience and level of enjoyment with others as their expectations could be much different.

Did you miss the part where I said it is going to depend on each family? You seem to be the one saying it is 100% necessary to be there first and leave last.

 

[redsbe]

Did you miss the part where I said it is going to depend on each family? You seem to be the one saying it is 100% necessary to be there first and leave last.

I was replying to your initial statement "You don't even need EMH and Rope Drop", which when you posted did not include "will depend on each family" , but instead appears as a broad generalized statement - and a very inaccurate one to share as advise.

 

[tlmadden73]

I agree with several of the above. Disney didn't "create" this system. High customer demand did.

When reservations start getting booked out 3 months in advance, what can they do but up the reservation time to more days?

The problem is I think 180 days is too much. The average joe doesn't plan a vacation like this over half a year out. WE do .. making it hard for the "average joe" to get reservations when they decided 4-5 months out to go to Disney World.

The only thing they could is simply make EVERYTHING same day reservations.

Then guess who would complain?

US .. people who go yearly to WDW and want every minute planned out to be 'efficient'.

 

[Pesky]

Without restating the rationale offered by pps, I think you need to work with your friend on a plan of attack. First, she needs to reset expectations for those reservations that are hard to get and make some she can. This means figuring out which park on what day and so forth. Then make reservations. Odds are good that as a newbie, there are some places she might not even think of or know about that could be well-suited to her family's tastes. Also, she should make some reservations that she can drop in favor of ones at more preferred restaurants if and when they become available. That means regularly checking in to see if a dining reservation opens up. Work? yes. But only she can decide if it's worth it. Then she should also research and map out possible QSR/CS locations that can work within the DDP too for alternative options. Please advise her she is better off trying to eat earlier or later to avoid the heaviest crowds. Then help her learn from this experience -- if she wants MNSSHP tickets, get them now; if she knows she wants 7DMT at 11 am on X day, tell her to be ready at the 60 day mark; and so on.

 

[EdmondD]

OP here - I'm glad that so many of us who have been so many times know how to navigate things so well at WDW. Doesn't surprise me.

Perhaps she has more options than what she said. I would make a suggestion and she'd say, "Hm, there's nothing there," or, "Only at 9:15" or something like that.

I guess there's going to be stress when you have such large demand and small supply, as someone else suggested. Millions more people coming, and little park expansion over that time. I guess specifically Disney DOES create an issue with the DDP. They push this in their marketing, and then people feel stressed about getting meals booked. Would it be better to only do day-of reservations? Probably not. I don't know.

The larger point is perception is reality for an individual. Her perception is a Disney vacation is hard and stressful. And that's too bad.

I think WDW planning surprises people. It requires more planning than any trip I take, anywhere - I went to Qatar on three-days notice a few months ago and had a lovely time. A parallel would be if you went to Washington, DC and you wanted to go the Air and Space Museum but you could only go on Monday or Thursday (because of other constraints) and it's only going to work on the day that you get reservations at a particular restaurant, which you darn better call six-months ahead of time. Also, you may need to book that hotel 11 months out! And it's extra if you want to leave the Air and Space and go to Natural History and if you don't want to stand in line for the Hope Diamond for 90 minutes, you'll have to stand in line to see Kermit the Frog for 120 minutes. And if you don't stay in these premium priced hotels, you may wait even longer to see stuff. (And for $600 for your family, we'll let you in late and you can look at the Declaration of Independence on your own!) Oh, and half of the zoo has been closed for refurbishment. ;-)

 

[jaceraden]

You didn't quote anything, so it is unclear what it is that you are disagreeing with. The balance of your post makes perfect sense. Different strokes for different folks. There are uber planners who have great vacations and non-planners who do too. But it seems as if you are disagreeing with the OP's story, and, inasmuch as it is a firsthand factual account of someone's story and the stress that they are experiencing, it seems impossible to "diagree" with anything there. If the person in the story feels stressed, then they feel stressed. There is nothing with which to agree or disagree. We either believe the story, or we think it is a lie. But if someone tells you that they feel stressed, you can't "disagree" with their personal feeling.

I disagree with the bend of the question posed in the title of this thread. Perhaps you missed that part??

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I agree with several of the above. Disney didn't "create" this system. High customer demand did.

When reservations start getting booked out 3 months in advance, what can they do but up the reservation time to more days?

The problem is I think 180 days is too much. The average joe doesn't plan a vacation like this over half a year out. WE do .. making it hard for the "average joe" to get reservations when they decided 4-5 months out to go to Disney World.

The only thing they could is simply make EVERYTHING same day reservations.

Then guess who would complain?

US .. people who go yearly to WDW and want every minute planned out to be 'efficient'.

As someone who used to go multiple times a year and has now cut back to once a year due to the advanced planning I wouldn't complain one bit. I don't find anything efficient or enjoyable about investing that much time into scheduling parks, meals and rides. Having made a large number of trips when everything was same day it was much more enjoyable of a "vacation".

Moving the ADR requirement didn't "fix" the issue with things getting booked 90 days out. The only change is that things are now booked 180 days out.

As for who created the issue it is 100% Disney. I'd suspect that a very large part of the reservations made at 180 days include redundant reservations because people don't want to commit to a park that far out and especially not when they don't know what FP+ they can get 120 days later.

 

[Shanti]

Saw plenty of people at WDW looking at maps, deciding what to do next, not based on planning, so need for planning does not appear to be impacting number of visitors.

"Looking at maps" doesn't indicate that a person didn't plan. I've seen this assumption posted multiple times on these boards: "there were clueless people looking at paper maps", etc.

If a person hasn't been to the parks a dozen times, they could still use a map just to find their way to an attraction. I've been on several trips and plan the daylights out of them, but I still use paper maps when needed to find things. I live out of state and don't have every pathway of every park memorized.

 

[I Love Pluto]

We are NOT planners. My physical condition varies from day to day, which makes all of this planning with FP+ extremely frustrating.
We have learned that it is not the end of the world if you have to change parks for that day - and get all new FP+ for the selected park. It is annoying & inconvenient - but it can be done!

So relax! Don't stress! Enjoy Disney!!!!!

 

[lovethattink]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

I didn't read through all the posts so sorry if it's already been answered. Where does your friend want to eat?

5 months is plenty of time for things to open back up as people change their plans and cancel ADR.

Perhaps it would take stress off her if she asked her travel agent to try to find those ADR?

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I have a friend taking her two kids (3 and 7) for the first time. She was very, very excited when first telling me about it. I spent a fair amount of time with her helping her plan and she's using a travel agent. I did tell her that she should be ready at the 180-day point to snag popular places.

Well, she's at about five-month point and just called me. They decided to get the DDP (against my advice) and she's panicky because there are very, very few dining options available. And places that are open have ridiculous times (3:30 for dinner). Her joy and excitement have turned into frustration and dismay.

I told her not to let food drive her vacation and that where they eat or didn't eat won't be what they remember most, etc. etc. She's high stress and this is really getting to her.

Yes, she should have listened to us. Yes, she should have planned better.

But this system that Disney created has this person who is EXACTLY their target customer for vacations, merch, movies, and more, now kind of ticked off at the company for creating a stressful situation. I explained that this is how planning for WDW is now and at least she's somewhat knowledgeable and just imagine how it is for the folks who start thinking about the trip just a month ahead of time. I told her she was still ahead of the game because I've prepped her on FPs.

Nothing new here, but it was just a first-hand glimpse for me into how the way WDW has structured itself has resulted in a magical element of a vacation (the anticipation) being stressful and unpleasant for a potential repeat park goer. Now I hope they'll have a magical time, but I could see all this being enough for them to say the heck with it in the future.

Tell your friend a lot opens up at the last minute and to check even up to the day before. People shore up their plans last minute and hold multiples. For the heck of it I check to see what is available tomorrow (you have until midnight to cancel for tomorrow) and see BOG and other highly prizes reservations all the time. Same with fast passes.

 

[GPC0321]

I don't find ADRs or FP+ stressful, but I do think the Dining Plan is stressful. It puts too much pressure on you to "get your money's worth" which really cancels out the "convenience" of having everything prepaid. We only did the QSDP and I was still stressed over the amount of money we WEREN'T spending because we just weren't hungry enough to eat an entree and dessert at lunch and dinner AND a snack. Sometimes you just want a quick bite instead of half a chicken, half a rack of ribs, a mountain of BBQ pulled pork, cole slaw, baked beans, corn bread, and chocolate mousse. Sure, it was a "great deal" on the QSDP, but dang!

And don't get me started on the "great deal" at BOG breakfast. Let me say, just because it costs $24.99 (or whatever it is now), doesn't mean it TASTES like $24.99. Not when for less than $10 at a Cracker Barrel I can get eggs, bacon, grits, hash brown casserole, and pancakes.

I'm not buying into the hype this next time. And I'm sure as heck not getting any sort of dining plan. I'm over that racket.

All of that aside though. If I was magically dropped into the middle of WDW right at this moment, I'd be able to find something good to eat and something fun to do. "Insane" amounts of planning are not required.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

IF this were my friend, I would go on the website with her and show her that you don't have to put in a time for your meal searches. It's much more lucrative if you put in "Dinner" on each date. I think you may have to scroll down to find the breakfast, lunch, and dinner options.

I'd also advise her against the dining plan because the stress to make it "worth it" can be a lot and Disney doesn't treat you any better if you use the dining plan.

Also, you should send her a link to the restaurant board and she'll learn plenty.

 

[bryanb]

If she's at the 5-month mark, that means that she is visiting sometime around early November. I guarantee you that she will have plenty of options available to her. And it will probably be a really fun time with lighter crowds and cooler weather.

In fact, I'm still making reservations for a trip in mid-June and I've been able to schedule everything I've wanted. Including FastPass for the new Soarin' and ADRs at a variety of great restaurants. I almost never plan trips out more than 1-2 months in advance and we have a great time, every time. If I can cobble together a really fun vacation during the ridiculously hot, crowded, summer when school is out, she certainly can do that for early November.

They keys are:
(1) Be flexible, especially if it's during the first trip. The World is vast, and your vacation isn't ruined if you can't get that X:XXpm ADR at XYZ. There are plenty of places to eat. I'd prefer to do online research, but if she's at a loss of how to use her dining credits, she can call (407) WDW-DINE or (407) 939-3463, give them some guidelines, and ask for some recommendations.
(2) If she's dead-set on certain places and can't get a reservation now, check again later. They open up all the time. And I mean: all the time.
(3) Don't obsess like most of us on Disboards obsess. Not for your first trip. Save that for your second trip. Instead, spend your time just taking in the place. Make mental notes of what you want to do more of next time.

I wish your friend good luck! Maybe I'll plan a trip in early November too, though I probably won't decide until September.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I just went through and checked for the next 3 mornings, party of 4. I came up with O'Hana (2 times), 1900 Pak Fare, Akershus, Garden Grill, Chef Mickeys, Tusker House. Lots of good stuff.