For you smokers out there......

[wdwstar]

Its agaisnt the FL. law to smoke in FL. restaurants, i know your talking about smoking and non smoking dvc rooms. but where are these people suppose to smoke in their rental cars? even the FL. rental cars are cracking down on the smoking in the cars.

 

[mickeymouse710]

Originally posted by jeanniec
If there are so many smokers smoking in non-smoking rooms, does it not seem that DVC should increase, rather than decrease, the number of smoking rooms? Apparently, there must be a lot more smokers than someone thinks there are. Poor planning? If the number of smokers is so small, then why are they so often put in a non-smoking room? I think there are a lot more smokers than most people seem to think, and the simple solution would be to increase the smoking units. Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?

ITA!!!!!

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
If its a legal action, try smoking in Cailfornia.....anywhere indoors.Florida will be the same in the near future........as stated by Dean below...........

It is still legal in CA, just not in public indoor places. They have not stopped selling cigarettes (they would lose much too much revenue that way).

As to Dean's prediction, it is just that, a prediction.

CT has a law similar to CA as does NY and MA to name a few.

I doubt Disney or any other hotel chain/resort will do anything to lose revenue.

As to maintenance costs, the costs would be down if you made it booze and child fee too. That is a silly arguement. The cost of maintenance is factored into our dues for all scenarios.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
There is actually a big difference. Lots of things cause cancer, but, I doubt a whiff now and then outside will cause you any ill effects. Driving to work causes you to inhale far more cancer causing agents than a whiff of a cigarette. The EPA does not want you to know this because they want to focus you on other things and not the dangers of just going outside for "fresh" air.

I mean no disrespect, but the statements above are ill informed baloney.

 

[lovetotravel1974]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
It is still legal in CA, just not in public indoor places.
CT has a law similar to CA as does NY and MA to name a few.

I doubt Disney or any other hotel chain/resort will do anything to lose revenue.

Aren't we talking about "indoor places"?
Florida will soon be following Calif,NY,MA,etc in the near future in banning smoking anywhere "indoors."

They would NOT lose revenue............banning smoking anywhere indoors, would probably increase their revenue.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
I mean no disrespect, but the statements above are ill informed baloney.

No disrespect taken, but, have you ever given thought that perhaps the information given out by the government agencies might be a tad skewed?

I would love to debate this issue with you more, but, I don't really want to risk seeing this thread closed because we hijacked it with a debate.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
Aren't we talking about "indoor places"?
Florida will soon be following Calif,NY,MA,etc in the near future in banning smoking anywhere "indoors."

They would NOT lose revenue............banning smoking anywhere indoors, would probably increase their revenue.

Yes, we are talking about indoor places, Cpt. Midnight and I are talking about any place.
I doubt you will see non smoking banned in any hotel (except for the one at Disney land) or resort or time share anytime in the near or far future.

Ask the restaurants in CT how much revenue they have lost with this idiotic smoking ban in bars and restaurants. Or, NY, where they can get a waiver if their revenue has dropped below 15%.

You might go out more because of it, but, I don't, in fact, my savings account has increased because of the ban in bars. (Never sat in smoking in a restaurant anyway). so, between you and me, it is a wash on the revenue aspect.

As I said before, just because you don't like smoking, there is no reason to ban it everywhere. What people do in their homes or vacations homes (where permitted) should have no impact on you. There are many things I don't like and I have learned to just let it go and avoid it. You might try that. You simply cannot control the actions of others.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
No disrespect taken, but, have you ever given thought that perhaps the information given out by the government agencies might be a tad skewed?

I work with a major cancer hospital and research center, it's not about the government, it's about proven medical research. Smoking affects all of us in higher health insurance costs, and consumptions of medical resources that could be devoted to other diseases. My hope is that no new generation starts smoking so that it will end everywhere. Glad it's not coming across disrespectfully.

I would love to debate this issue with you more, but, I don't really want to risk seeing this thread closed because we hijacked it with a debate.

Agreed. Back to DVC accomodation of smoking preferences. I think we are both in agreement that smoking should be a guarantee as part of the reservation instead of just a preference.

 

[LisaSt]

As a non smoking family we love the thought of a fully non smoking resort that would be my preference. We have family members that do smoke but they willnot smoke in any room we get and do not even smoke on the balcony of the rooms. My dad and my FIL smaoke but do not do it around my children or around others they go off on their own to have a smoke as to respect others that do not smoke. I would love to see all WDW resorts become non smoking.

 

[wdwstar]

We are not smokers and it doesnt bother me if dvc still has smoking rooms, i do think dvc should try a little harder to fill the request for a smoking room if being requested. all the restaurants are non smoking, lobbys, the gift stores and even by the pool except certain areas, where i really havent seen or been bothered by someone smoking. the smokers should be aloud to at least get a smoking room and have a place to smoke .

 

[mickeymouse710]

As to maintenance costs, the costs would be down if you made it booze and child fee too. That is a silly arguement. The cost of maintenance is factored into our dues for all scenarios.

ITA!! I have seen a lot more damage done to DVC villas from kids then I have from smokers. We have been in many villas that have crayon & marker marks on the walls, furniture, bedspreads, etc., and scratches on the funiture from kids running matchbox cars and toys across the surfaces; juice stains on the carpet & furniture; and little footprints and scuff marks on the lower walls etc. We have never gotten a villa that had any evidence of burn marks, stained curtains, unpleasant odors, etc.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by mickeymouse710
ITA!! I have seen a lot more damage done to DVC villas from kids then I have from smokers. We have been in many villas that have crayon & marker marks on the walls, furniture, bedspreads, etc., and scratches on the funiture from kids running matchbox cars and toys across the surfaces; juice stains on the carpet & furniture; and little footprints and scuff marks on the lower walls etc. We have never gotten a villa that had any evidence of burn marks, stained curtains, unpleasant odors, etc.

We've had villas we could not sleep in due to a previous smoker causing smoke infiltration and terrible oder throughout the room triggering breathing problems. We've not had problems being able to sleep in a room due to scuff marks, etc. I don't believe being around children second hand causes cancer either. My understanding was that Walt intended WDW to be a place where children and adults could have fun together.

As a non smoking family we love the thought of a fully non smoking resort that would be my preference.

Agreed, this would be great. It wouldn't help those of us who are already owners in our respective resorts, but it would be nice.

I am interested, why do you think it crazy to iincrease the number of smoking rooms?

The number of smokers in the USA is decreasing. I don't know specifically if the number of smoking DVC members is decreasing. The number of rooms should match demand, if its increasing it should be more, if decreasing it should be less.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

don't believe being around children second hand causes cancer either. My understanding was that Walt intended WDW to be a place where children and adults could have fun together.

Nope, no cancer from chiildren, but, you can get a nasty headache.

I just KNEW you would bring this up and invalidate the arguement about damage children do. But, the comment was in direct response to the comment about smokers causing higher maintenance costs, not the effects of being around them.

I have also not been able to sleep in a room, not Disney, because of the noxious odors from previous smokers, so, I can truly relate to the discomfort. The smell of stale nicotine was overwhelming.
Thankfully, I have never encountered that since, anywhere.

 

[mickeymouse710]

Captain,
I was referring only to the point that was being made that maintenance costs for all situations are already incorporated into dues. We have seen more physical damage done in villas by kids then by smokers. I was not addressing second hand smoke, cancer dangers, etc., at all--just the maintenance cost to DVC members. We have also never had any serious health problems in a DVC villa--both in nonsmoking and smoking villas due to lingering smoke residue-- and I have asthma.
I completely understand how some would love to see all of the DVC resorts excatly perfect for "their" family; however the DVC is made up of many different groups with many different wants. All are members that pay the same dues and are entitled to the same enjoyment of their DVC membership.
I completely agree with you that the demand of smoking/nonsmoking rooms needs to meet the demand and should be adjusted accordingly. From many posts on this subject from both smokers and nonsmokers--it appears there is a need for more smoking dvc villas, not less.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
As to Dean's prediction, it is just that, a prediction.

Actually more an an awareness of the FL political climate than a prediction. My statement was that it's possible, nothing more. I aslo think it's possible for DVC to do so independently as many of the newer Marriott's have or are going all non smoking.

Cigarette smoke has been proven to cause cancer, increase deaths including from asthma related issues, increase the risk and earlier onset of COPD and make children short that are exposed to it, among other things. These are irrefutable facts. However as long as it's legal to do so and there are smoking rooms, I have no problem with one smoking in a legal setting. The rooms should be reserved directly though and smoking should be forbidden in non smoking areas/buildings/untis, etc. Also cars and houses that have not been exposed to smoke sell for more though I'd assume the same could be said for those not associated with children. Smoking is not like the Ozone issue where the information is all smoke and mirrors.

The FL law says that any restaurant must be nonsmoking. The out is for a bar who has less than 10% sales as food and non alcoholics. Even then to keep a smoking license, they have to pay for an independent audit every 2 years out of their pocket. This is expected to cost a thousand dollars or more per audit. Smoking is also prohibited in all public indoor locations. Timeshares are to a certain extent private and as much as some would like to think otherwise, are even exempt to a certain extent from many of the ADA requirements much the same way as a private condo is somewhat exempt.

As for higher maint fees, I think it's hard to argue. But other things also increase fees. As long as it's within the rules, that's the price of membership. I don't use all the portions of DVC but pay for all of them in one way or another. One of the questions is at what point does a minority issue become unreasonable for the group to pay for. This is definitely the question with DVC and smoking, I don't have the answer though. Again referencing the fact that many Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking as well as the fact that DVC has continually reduced the number of smoking units at many, if not all of their resorts.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Dean
Actually more an an awareness of the FL political climate than a prediction. My statement was that it's possible, nothing more. I aslo think it's possible for DVC to do so independently as many of the newer Marriott's have or are going all non smoking.

Cigarette smoke has been proven to cause cancer, increase deaths including from asthma related issues, increase the risk and earlier onset of COPD and make children short that are exposed to it, among other things. These are irrefutable facts. However as long as it's legal to do so and there are smoking rooms, I have no problem with one smoking in a legal setting. The rooms should be reserved directly though and smoking should be forbidden in non smoking areas/buildings/untis, etc. Also cars and houses that have not been exposed to smoke sell for more though I'd assume the same could be said for those not associated with children. Smoking is not like the Ozone issue where the information is all smoke and mirrors.

The FL law says that any restaurant must be nonsmoking. The out is for a bar who has less than 10% sales as food and non alcoholics. Even then to keep a smoking license, they have to pay for an independent audit every 2 years out of their pocket. This is expected to cost a thousand dollars or more per audit. Smoking is also prohibited in all public indoor locations. Timeshares are to a certain extent private and as much as some would like to think otherwise, are even exempt to a certain extent from many of the ADA requirements much the same way as a private condo is somewhat exempt.

As for higher maint fees, I think it's hard to argue. But other things also increase fees. As long as it's within the rules, that's the price of membership. I don't use all the portions of DVC but pay for all of them in one way or another. One of the questions is at what point does a minority issue become unreasonable for the group to pay for. This is definitely the question with DVC and smoking, I don't have the answer though. Again referencing the fact that many Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking as well as the fact that DVC has continually reduced the number of smoking units at many, if not all of their resorts.

Nice post, Dean.
Anything is possible, it is the probability that gets to the heart of the matter.
Marriot may well go non smoking but, it is doubtful that Disney will go that route. Even if the smoking population that visits Disney is only 10% (just a rough number) they won't want to lose that. With so many different cultures visiting the "number one vacation spot in the world" they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.

I had no idea that DVC was exempt, to a certain extent, from ADA
requirements. What are they exempt and not exempt from ?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Nice post, Dean.
Anything is possible, it is the probability that gets to the heart of the matter.
Marriot may well go non smoking but, it is doubtful that Disney will go that route. Even if the smoking population that visits Disney is only 10% (just a rough number) they won't want to lose that. With so many different cultures visiting the "number one vacation spot in the world" they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.

I had no idea that DVC was exempt, to a certain extent, from ADA
requirements. What are they exempt and not exempt from ?

There is possible and there is POSSIBLE. IMO for DVC and even most WDW resorst to go NS is POSSIBLE, meaning it truly could happen. I didn't specifically say that DVC was truly exempt from the ADA, that is a very complicated set of issues. What I said was that timeshare are different. And I think SSR, VB, HH and OKW would be different than BWV, BCV and VWL.

I'm not an ADA expert but let me give you an example. Marriott's Grande Ocean resort was having a number of people with pets list them as "service animals" much as you insinuated that people exagerated their smoking "allergies". The management there set out to crack down on this issue and went to the Marriott legal team. The legal team came back with a complicated docuement that essentially required guests to register their animals as service animals prior to the stay, put up a refundable deposit, expressly placed the responsibility for any damage on the animals owners and required liability insurance. I've previously posted more of the exact wording on this board. I am also told that many of the other Marriott resorts have this exact wording in their bylaws but I haven't seen or heard of it elsewhere. I questioned it because I ws curious as to the legalities though I do agree with the intent. I was told that the Marriott lawyers were very strong in their belief this was legal and it was cited that part of the reasoning was that a timeshare is a private entity and came under the same law as condo's not hotels. Obviously there are some gray areas due to the public rentals.

The thing that makes some of the DVC resorts a little different is the hotel plus timeshare issue for some but not for others.

To make my above post more clear, the food and non alcohol must be less than 10% of total sales for a bar to qualify.

I think the Marriott issue is directly related simply as a sign of the times. While a small percentage of people might be smokers but might represnt the profit margin. The real question is how many wouldn't go to WDW or would stay for a shorter time? Certainly only a small percentage of of the total smokers. And WDW would certainly pick up some revenue, decreased expenses due to lower maint and improved efficiency of unit assignments. Plus a healthier work enviroment for employees. Just for sake of discussion, Lets assume 17% of people are smokers (the number from FL a few years ago), and a change to nonsmoking decreased their visit days by 25%. Plus there was a 0.5-1% increase in non smoker visits directly attributable to the smoking ban. It's my guess that WDW in general would come out ahead in this scenario but it's simply a guess and you could play the numbers many different ways. I'm just trying to make a point that there are competing forces financially.

 

[Bella2000]

This is an interesting post to read comparing it to the Cruise forum recent post on the subject. I'm not looking at it from a smoking or nonsmoking debate (hey I live in MA - been there seen that) but from the original question and Disney policy. I believe OP raised issue of not enough smoking rooms. On cruise while all staterooms are nonsmoking all verandas may be used for smoking as well of most of the open air areas. After hour smoking is also a bizarre concept to me how many people have been in a nightclub when everyone leaves - kinda smells doesn't it - how then does it become a non smoking family area - I'll have to check this out when I finally cruise but I digress. Very interesting position for DCL compared to DVC. I would have thought they would have been more stringent on DCL regarding smoking.
Cruise forum thread

Funniest post to me was Disney saying in their reply to a poster no cigars and then someone in an unrelated post saying you can buy cigars in a non smoking venue. The duality of disney I guess.

I e-mailed DCL last night about their smoking policy, and got this stock reply this morning:

Thank you for your e-mail.

For the comfort and enjoyment of our guests, the Disney Magic and Disney Wonder have been primarily designated as non-smoking ships. However, we recognize that some of our guests smoke. Therefore, to provide an onboard atmosphere that also satisfies smokers, we have designated smoking areas in Beat Street/Route 66 lounges, all open-air decks, and on private verandahs. Disney Cruise Line asks all guests to please observe the non-smoking areas and to refrain from smoking pipes and/or cigars in any of the public areas. These requests are made to provide a comfortable shipboard living atmosphere for everyone. We hope these efforts demonstrate that we have addressed our non-smoking guests' needs as while as providing options for our adult guests who want to smoke. Your comments will be shared with the appropriate management teams.

We look forward to the chance to sail with you.

Sincerely,

Tracey, Guest Communications
Disney Cruise Line

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Dean,
Yes, there is possible and POSSIBLE and then there is probable and PROBABLE. While it may be POSSIBLE I do doubt that it is PROBABLE.

As to the ADA, I am sorry, I did misread. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Dean,
Yes, there is possible and POSSIBLE and then there is probable and PROBABLE. While it may be POSSIBLE I do doubt that it is PROBABLE.

As to the ADA, I am sorry, I did misread. Thanks for the clarification.

I'd guess it's about a 40% chance of at least one resort in the DVC system going totally non smoking. I'd think OKW would be the least likely to do so unless the entire system went NS and that's due to it's building arrangement and large size.