Came across this article from an average guest

[k5thbeatle]

... So why do people think they can show up to the most popular vacation destination in the world without doing any advanced planning beyond hotel reservations?

It really boggles my mind.

Umm..because that's the way it WAS for years and years?

 

[Angel Ariel]

So what are you suggesting... that WDW do away with ADRs and make their restaurants walk-up? That doesn't seem good to me. That says LINE. There would be lines for every restaurant at lunch and dinner. There would be no way to eat TS except to get in a line to a restaurant. ADRs are a necessity. May not like it, but the alternative is worse. And I agree with Mikie there are restaurants you can still walk up to... just not the BOG, LeCellier, etc. It's not like if you go to WDW, you'd be unable to find somewhere to eat.

ADRs themselves are fine.

the ADR window opening up at 180 days is over the top, IMO. It doesn't *need* to be that long of a window (from a guest's perspective). Obviously there's something in that that benefits Disney, though, or they wouldn't be doing it. Doesn't mean anyone has to like it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The writer of the article is planning to go in November and states "And, from what I’m told, they go so quick that if we don’t have a plan of action put in motion at 12:01am, we might as well not bother". Unless they are planning on going around Thanksgiving this seems a bit overstated.

For A&E, 7DMT, FOF, MSEP it is not overstated (and my impression, IIRC from when I read the article a few days ago, is that the author was discussing the harder to get FP+). We went in early November last year. A&E, FOF and MSEP were entirely gone for our trip when I signed in at midnight. 7DMT was gone for my entire trip w/I 5 mins of midnight.

I certainly would not make that claim on the whole, as we had no problems getting other headliners, but for the very hard to get FP+, November was a difficult month. Shorter hours + party nights = less FP+ availability

 

[Angel Ariel]

It is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people not using the system is a "flaw", let alone a bigger one than people walking into the park with a satchel full of Magic Bands.

I agree. The lack of people using the legacy system wasn't a flaw of the system itself, it was a flaw in Disney Marketing. There are plenty of ways they could have increased usage of legacy. They chose not to. Increasing use of the legacy system doesn't get them all that valuable data mining they're getting from MM+.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Complaining about how much better FP- was compared to FP+ means that you were people that ran to the park and hoarded fast pass tickets

Sorry, nope . We only ever used the legacy system within its rules. We only got FPs when the time on the FP ticket told us we could get the next FP (it was written on the bottom of the ticket), and we used them within their windows. No hoarding going on at all.

 

[Lisann]

Now if they would just fix their website. They've yet to get that right.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It's not the technology per se. It's the effective use of technology. It's the ability to do things on the web, from home, in your PJs, at your leisure versus having to do it at a specific location, in person, within a specific time frame that takes from doing other things in the park.

Disney has had GPS enabled apps before (where you had to be in the park to utilize certain functions, like viewing actual wait times - the old Verizon Mobile Magic app). They could have done something like that with fastpass, and you could schedule it from your phone as long as you were on park property (even in your hotel, in your PJs, thereby giving an inherent edge to onsite guests). No running back and forth to rides multiple times required, still plays into the Millennial generation's love of technology, etc.

 

[GaryDis]

ADRs themselves are fine.

the ADR window opening up at 180 days is over the top, IMO. It doesn't *need* to be that long of a window (from a guest's perspective). Obviously there's something in that that benefits Disney, though, or they wouldn't be doing it. Doesn't mean anyone has to like it.

It may be as simple as pure reservation service capacity, as the restaurants get more crowded, combined with free dining and/or DDP.

Look at it this way. Suppose ADRs were just one day in advance, which they were at some point in the past. That means everyone who wants a reservation on Sep 4 needs to call on Sep 3. If only a hundred people are trying for restaurant X, they can probably handle that, both in terms of staffing and computers. But make the dining free, and now you have 5,000 people who all want reservations on Sep 4 for the exact same restaurant. Ignoring the staffing, this is going to kill the computers, because you're going to have dozens if not hundreds of people all try to get access to the same exact data. Extend it to two days out, and you'll still have 5,000 people, but half will want for the 4th and half for the 5th.

I hope that's clear. I'm trying to explain it using made-up numbers and without getting into the technical aspects of multiple simultaneous requests to a computer database. Or compare it to booking movie tickets. At least with AMC, when I check availability, I'll have seats locked up for about 5 or 10 minutes before deciding to either pay for them or cancel, and during that period, no one else can get those seats.

 

[GaryDis]

Disney has had GPS enabled apps before (where you had to be in the park to utilize certain functions, like viewing actual wait times - the old Verizon Mobile Magic app). They could have done something like that with fastpass, and you could schedule it from your phone as long as you were on park property (even in your hotel, in your PJs, thereby giving an inherent edge to onsite guests). No running back and forth to rides multiple times required, still plays into the Millennial generation's love of technology, etc.

Still not the same as doing it at home before you leave.

Look at it this way. Perhaps no guest ever considered asking for the ability to book at 60 days out. But the ability to book before arriving in Orlando? Sure sounds great to me.

 

[flicx]

Umm..because that's the way it WAS for years and years?

Amen! We almost always went last minute! That ship has sailed. Legacy made last minute trips wonderful for us. Show up at the parks at a reasonable time and you had a fast pass for anything in the park. Now, nope!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Still not the same as doing it at home before you leave.

Look at it this way. Perhaps no guest ever considered asking for the ability to book at 60 days out. But the ability to book before arriving in Orlando? Sure sounds great to me.

Most people I know - millennials included - dislike doing it at home before they leave. The convenience of doing it on your phone? Sure, absolutely. Dealing with what rides they want to ride a few months before they arrive? Not so much.

 

[GaryDis]

Amen! We almost always went last minute! That ship has sailed. Legacy made last minute trips wonderful for us. Show up at the parks at a reasonable time and you had a fast pass for anything in the park. Now, nope!

I never went last minute, and never considered it possible.

Perhaps someone with better memory or better records can confirm or refute my recollection: Back before the Value resorts, when the CBR was the only thing between MK deluxe and Ft. Wilderness, my recollection is that you pretty much had to book a year in advance to get a room.

 

[flicx]

I still think they need to mix legacy and plus. One advanced reservation from home. The rest at the park old style like legacy except add more kiosks to handle the crowd.

I never went last minute, and never considered it possible.

Perhaps someone with better memory or better records can confirm or refute my recollection: Back before the Value resorts, when the CBR was the only thing between MK deluxe and Ft. Wilderness, my recollection is that you pretty much had to book a year in advance to get a room.

Never had problems getting a room especially in September and October stayed multiple places included Contemporary, Polynesian, Dolphin, Swan, and others. We have gone within a few days of seeing low airfare or when I got laid off from work. Short trips and short notice. Now Disney by adding plus and taking away no expiration tickets have destroyed that option all together.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I never went last minute, and never considered it possible.

Perhaps someone with better memory or better records can confirm or refute my recollection: Back before the Value resorts, when the CBR was the only thing between MK deluxe and Ft. Wilderness, my recollection is that you pretty much had to book a year in advance to get a room.

Can't speak back that long, but the least amt of time from decision to trip that we've had was less than 2 months. DH was returning from deployment, and I couldn't book until we had his definitive return dates. This was 2007. IIRC, I booked towards the end of October for a mid-December trip. I had no issues getting everything we wanted booked.

In 2011 we made a very last minute trip to DLR. Less than a week's notice before we drove down from where we were (about 14 hrs away). During spring break season, even (early April). Not only was it possible, it was a fantastic trip. No issue getting ADRs (including Ariel's Grotto for a WOC dinner, when WOC was brand new), or anything else.

 

[JimmyV]

It may be as simple as pure reservation service capacity, as the restaurants get more crowded, combined with free dining and/or DDP.

Look at it this way. Suppose ADRs were just one day in advance, which they were at some point in the past. That means everyone who wants a reservation on Sep 4 needs to call on Sep 3. If only a hundred people are trying for restaurant X, they can probably handle that, both in terms of staffing and computers. But make the dining free, and now you have 5,000 people who all want reservations on Sep 4 for the exact same restaurant. Ignoring the staffing, this is going to kill the computers, because you're going to have dozens if not hundreds of people all try to get access to the same exact data. Extend it to two days out, and you'll still have 5,000 people, but half will want for the 4th and half for the 5th.

I hope that's clear. I'm trying to explain it using made-up numbers and without getting into the technical aspects of multiple simultaneous requests to a computer database. Or compare it to booking movie tickets. At least with AMC, when I check availability, I'll have seats locked up for about 5 or 10 minutes before deciding to either pay for them or cancel, and during that period, no one else can get those seats.

All I know is that the best, greatest, most popular, hard to get into, in demand restaurants in THE WORLD do not use reservation systems that book 180 days out. The only one I know (knew) of was El Bulli (RIP). And that wasn't a reservation system so much as it was a personal plea to please be allowed to dine there on any day possible and the restaurant assigned you a day, like it or not. If The French Laundry can operate taking reservations two months out to the calendar day, then Le Cellier can too. I have dined at WDW when reservations (when they were called that) were made up to 30 days out. And Priority Seating 30 days out. And Priority Seating 60 days out. And Priority Seating 90 days out. And ADRs 180 days out. And 180+10 days out. There is nothing better or special about the current system from the users' standpoint. None of this was done with the guest's best interest in mind. To assume otherwise is an exercise in rationalization.

 

[GaryDis]

There is nothing better or special about the current system from the users' standpoint. None of this was done with the guest's best interest in mind. To assume otherwise is an exercise in rationalization.

I never said there was. I was merely pointing out it might be for operational reasons and not for some insidious profit-making trick.

EDIT: I don't like it, either. But given a choice between 180 day reservations and things that increase demand (like FD or adding characters to Akershus), I'm much more upset with the things that make the restaurants more crowded.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It may be as simple as pure reservation service capacity, as the restaurants get more crowded, combined with free dining and/or DDP.

Look at it this way. Suppose ADRs were just one day in advance, which they were at some point in the past. That means everyone who wants a reservation on Sep 4 needs to call on Sep 3. If only a hundred people are trying for restaurant X, they can probably handle that, both in terms of staffing and computers. But make the dining free, and now you have 5,000 people who all want reservations on Sep 4 for the exact same restaurant. Ignoring the staffing, this is going to kill the computers, because you're going to have dozens if not hundreds of people all try to get access to the same exact data. Extend it to two days out, and you'll still have 5,000 people, but half will want for the 4th and half for the 5th.

I hope that's clear. I'm trying to explain it using made-up numbers and without getting into the technical aspects of multiple simultaneous requests to a computer database. Or compare it to booking movie tickets. At least with AMC, when I check availability, I'll have seats locked up for about 5 or 10 minutes before deciding to either pay for them or cancel, and during that period, no one else can get those seats.

I'm perfectly capable of understanding . And Jimmy V already did a great job responding, so I don't really need to repeat it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I never said there was. I was merely pointing out it might be for operational reasons and not for some insidious profit-making trick.

I never said anything about "some insidious profit-making trick".

 

[GaryDis]

I never said anything about "some insidious profit-making trick".

I was interpreting "something in it that benefits Disney" that way. Sorry if that was the wrong intent.

 

[JimmyV]

I never said there was. I was merely pointing out it might be for operational reasons and not for some insidious profit-making trick.

But what operational reason could there be that does not also impact the world's most popular, in demand restaurants? And I realize that that is a rhetorical question to which you personally do not have the answer.