Came across this article from an average guest

[JoshuaShaw]

While that was a great "system for me" because it had flaws I knew how to exploit, my selfishness aside, it was not a great "system".

Are you suggesting that FP+ does not have flaws that can be exploited?

 

[MrInfinity]

Are you suggesting that FP+ does not have flaws that can be exploited?

Sure it does... I've always supported not complaining about the old system being gone, but figuring out the ways to get the most out of FP+. It can be done, just not as easily. For example, it's not possible any more for that 10% crowd to get all the FPs while the 90% got none. Sure you can double up on tickets, you can use past bands, etc etc, but it is not as flawed as FP- was. For example, now, everyone is going to get 3 FP+'s no matter how many you get by other means. You couldn't say that w FP-. So at least there is a baseline where anyone and everyone gets 3 now. And the 3 you get are more efficient than the first 3 you'd get before, cuz you can pick your rides and times instead of being given unplanned return times. FP- was so easy to do extremely well with, it's hard to believe that most guests did not use it.

 

[JimmyV]

Sure you can double up on tickets, you can use past bands, etc etc, but it is not as flawed as FP- was.

I have to disagree with this. Quite vehemently, in fact. The "flaws" with the current system involve "hacks" that really are cheating they system. (And I know that that is an inflammatory term in these here parts. If Disney doesn't plug the whole, it isn't cheating.) But the whole "maximizing FP+ through the use of old bands is certainly not something that Disney anticipated. Nevertheless, the "flaws" with the old system began and ended with the fact that 90% of the people (your percentage...I can't attest to it), were not using the system. It is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people not using the system is a "flaw", let alone a bigger one than people walking into the park with a satchel full of Magic Bands.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

With FP-, I fully leveraged my knowledge of the system and its holes (it had holes, which were filled over time). With FP+, I fully leverage my knowledge of the system and its holes. I always have extra tickets tied to extra MBs & MDE accounts on trips. Really don't understand what everyone that knows about these holes isn't doing this.

Lemons into lemonade and all that...

 

[JimmyV]

I don't share the article writer's opinion, but I see it expressed a lot and I understand it. I think he's writing as a non-frequent visitor (totally different experience and complaints from the "vets" who have complaints about MM+)...

But isn't that the majority of guests? What he wrote may not apply so much here. But I think he is striking a chord with the majority of people who are planning their first visit.

1) Non-planners (or people who plan in day-to-day life and want to escape it on vacation, or people who only like to plan a little, or. . . ) are feeling compelled to plan. Adults generally don't like to be compelled to do anything out of their comfort zone, especially for a vacation.

Again, I think this describes the majority. It is fine to say: "Well, he makes some valid points but only as they pertain to people who do a lot of planning in their everyday lives but who do not want to plan on vacation", as if this describes an insular minority. But is it?

2) The pain (distaste, inconvenience, . . . ) of the undesireable planning is taking place long before the the enjoyment you're planning for. People in general are not so great with delayed gratification,

If "people in general" feel this way, then why disagree with the writer's opinion? Instead, it reads as if you share his point of view. Or, better stated, perhaps you don't share his point of view, but you understand how people in general would.

3) Major FOMO.

I think at the price people are paying, good ol' Major FOMO, (or Five-Star General FOMO) is a huge deal. Real. Perceived. Self-Inflicted. Whatever. This is where perception becomes reality.

In the end, the guy wrote the article. I am certain that he did not wake up one day and say: "None of this is true. None of this is what I felt. None of this is what I believe. But I am going to write it anyway." He has captured the zeitgeist of a whole lot of people. And the "but more people than ever are going to WDW" argument doesn't work. Everyone (and I mean everyone) hates that legroom on airlines has shrunk. That overhead space is harder to get. That ticket prices are higher than ever. That we have to pay for checked bags. That the only food on board is "Buy On Board" junk. And yet the number of passengers who flew each year from 2008 until today has risen steadily in a straight line.

 

[larryz]

He has captured the zeitgeist of a whole lot of people.

Not to mention the schauenfreude...

 

[JimmyV]

Not to mention the schauenfreude...

That goes without saying.

 

[JimmyV]

Really don't understand what everyone that knows about these holes isn't doing this.

I'm going to take a huge risk here, and answer what was probably a rhetorical question. Why don't I do it? Because when I go to WDW, 90% of the time it is with my daughter. It is a real Daddy/Daughter bonding thing. Mom is there too, of course, but my daughter loves the way I have always glided from place to place, knowing all the best ways to do things, and to plan things and to get the most out of our trips. And I cannot bear the thought of her looking up to me as the "guy who knows WDW" and her seeing me pulling out old MBs to get FPs to which we were not entitled. I really don't want my child to see me cheat. There. I said it. And I apologize if this post throws the whole thread off its rails. But you asked.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm going to take a huge risk here, and answer what was probably a rhetorical question. Why don't I do it? Because when I go to WDW, 90% of the time it is with my daughter. It is a real Daddy/Daughter bonding thing. Mom is there too, of course, but my daughter loves the way I have always glided from place to place, knowing all the best ways to do things, and to plan things and to get the most out of our trips. And I cannot bear the thought of her looking up to me as the "guy who knows WDW" and her seeing me pulling out old MBs to get FPs to which we were not entitled. I really don't want my child to see me cheat. There. I said it. And I apologize if this post throws the whole thread off its rails. But you asked.

I use new Magic Bands tied to new tickets, and my AP magic bands tied to my APs. There are ways to do this without "scheming" or doing things that you would not feel comfortable explaining to your child.

 

[ArwenMarie]

If you figured a "good" FP- user got 6 (some might have gotten 4, some maybe 9, but say on average 6) then it was only possible that around 3,000 people did that, and the other 45,000 people in the park did not use it at all. It's simple math. FP- was barely or not at all used by most, and heavily used by a small group (like me). That made it awesome for the small group, and standby for everything for everyone else.

If the problem was that not enough people were using the old paper FP, then Disney could have easily put more effort into educating people to use it more. Look at how much they have spent on teaching people about FP+. Then everyone could have gotten 3 or whatever the magic number is, but we still could have preserved the idea that each day in the parks is a clean slate. But spreading the FPs around wasn't the main goal, because that goal could have been achieved much more quickly and cheaply.

 

[lugnut33]

Pretty comprehensive list. Here's my take on them from our experiences...

1. I like being able to book so far out, and book before ppl w/o resort reservations. But I can see how this would not be good for someone who doesn't like to or doesn't want to plan.
2. You don't have to stay up late. Any time in your first few weeks is fine, unless you need A&E on a particular day.
3. Agree. Their website does glitch out from time to time, and the way in which your first 3 are picked is awkward.
4. Agree. But, I don't know how this could be fixed. This isn't Disney so much, as it is thousands of other guests booking up what I want, thereby limiting my choices to change popular attractions (darn them!)
5. I haven't seen this. First checkpoint was pretty quick for us. Only slow part of first checkpoint was where our kids had to be measured.
6. Disagree. More people use and understand FP+ than used and understood FP-. I actually wish fewer ppl would use it, like in the FP- days!
7. Tense moment? I can't relate here. I think our only "No go" was a CM at POTC that scanned us, looked at his screen, said oh you're 5 min earlier than it'll let you go, he punched some buttons, and waived us thru.
8. I agree here, it does lock you into your park choices more. But since our first visit we knew what parks we'd be in on which day so for us this isn't a huge change. If you used to pick day-of, this is more limiting.
9. We didn't experience this. We waited about the same as usual, rode as much as past trips.
10. Disagree. POTC isn't slower. Just half of its cars are being filled by FP instead of SB. I had no trouble getting POTC SDFPs, so this is a non-issue to us.
11. Agree, you can't. But this is not a big deal to me. There are enough other ways to be nice to ppl.
12. Disagree. Because FP- you had to do the same thing.
13. I didn't experience this. The internet worked well enough. Maybe it's getting worse as FP+ gets adopted by more and more ppl? We'll see this winter.
14. I didn't see this. I saw some pic out here on the web, but that wasn't what I experienced in the parks.
15. Disagree. The DVA site did go down for a week last month, but I haven't seen the Disney site do that. (knock on wood)

Skimming the first few, I thought we'd agree on more, since we were 50% after the first 4. But the rest I didn't see the same as you. Most of the things you find bad about FP+ either don't matter so much to me, or my experience was different.

Wow, your WDW is completely different from the WDW I visited two weeks ago. Is there a way for me to visit your WDW?

 

[JimmyV]

I use new Magic Bands tied to new tickets, and my AP magic bands tied to my APs. There are ways to do this without "scheming" or doing things that you would not feel comfortable explaining to your child.

"How is it that we were able to get extra Fast Passes before our first three ran out?" and "How are we able to get six Fast Passes instead of three" are not a questions that I would feel comfortable answering.

 

[JimmyV]

If the problem was that not enough people were using the old paper FP, then Disney could have easily put more effort into educating people to use it more. Look at how much they have spent on teaching people about FP+. Then everyone could have gotten 3 or whatever the magic number is, but we still could have preserved the idea that each day in the parks is a clean slate. But spreading the FPs around wasn't the main goal, because that goal could have been achieved much more quickly and cheaply.

I think it boils down to Disney saying:

• We need to start utilizing "big data" more
• We need to employ a system that would allow us to better predict where are guest are going to be at any given time
• We need to employ a system that would allow us to re-direct guests on a moment's notice if we want
• We need to do something about upping the usage of Fast Pass.

And FP+ is what they came up with. I agree that fixing the 4th bullet point could have been done many other ways. And they probably could have done it independent of trying to address the first three bullet points. But they opted to attack all four simultaneously.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

"How is it that we were able to get extra Fast Passes before our first three ran out?" and "How are we able to get six Fast Passes instead of three" are not a questions that I would feel comfortable answering.

LOL - Whatever, dude.

Each of us has to create our own moral compass. For me - if a company tells me that I get 3 FP+ per ticket and I am willing to buy extra tickets, I have no problem telling my kids that we can afford extra tickets, so we get extra FP+. No guilt at all.

 

[MrInfinity]

But isn't that the majority of guests? What he wrote may not apply so much here. But I think he is striking a chord with the majority of people who are planning their first visit.

Jimmy, I think we all know the writer of that article is not an actual vacationer / relaxed traveler / distraught-and-being-forced-to-plan guest. It's pretty clear that article was written to generate a rise in people, while taking shots at FP+ and Disney, which is exactly what it did. It drove clicks to Forbes.

1) His audience is only going to reach other Disney planners (aka folks like us on the Dis).
2) He says they will be awake and stressed out on their laptops. Why? How would he know this? Why would any typical new'ish traveler think to stay up past midnight, let alone have multiple laptops ready at that instant? The CMs never tell you this. They just tell you to book at 60 days.
3) Then he goes on to editorialize about how he thought it would be fun, but instead it wasn't. Woe is him.
4) Then he goes on to deliberately call them responsibilities over opportunities (negative spin)
5) Then he knows exactly the 30 days and 60 days thing. Why? A casual guest going to WDW would see 60 days. They would never learn about 30 days for non-guests.
6) 12:01am... he is trying to pinpoint that if you do not get on precisely at the time, "he was told" you would not get anything. Right. Told by who - his fellow commisserators?
7) Then he goes out to say "Disney is wrong". Another thing one wouldn't think when planning a trip to the 2nd happiest place on Earth. (if you count DL as the 1st)
8) Then he goes on to talk about how nothing is spontaneous and the parks are not as good as they used to be.

This is simply a writer paid to create an article that panders to the FP+: hot or not crowd. And it did just that. It got the rises it sought, and it brought the clicks. Good for them.

Doesn't change the fact that FP+ can give you as good a trip as you ever have if you make it happen. It's just a line queuing system. You can use it, or not. Just like w FP-.

 

[cisco911]

Wow! I can't believe that this FP+ discussion has gone on so long in so many posts!

First of all, the whole notion of having to stay up until midnight and book things would not change regardless of the number of days. So if you wanted to see Elsa and decides to wait until the next day, she would be gone regardless of whether it was 6, 60 or 600 days in advance. When people know something is popular, they try and book things at the first opportunity. This is not disney's fault, this is OUR fault. Just think of the hoards of people that line up the day before black friday to get their deal on a TV. Same principal.

Secondly, complaining about how much technology is involved is like complaining that your company is making you use a computer instead of a typewriter. Every company needs to keep up in technology. And yes, if does have a lot of flaws but that is how technology works. There are always issues and resolutions. Just think of how bad FP+ was when it started with glitches and how much better it is now that it has had time to grow and settle.

Complaining about how much better FP- was compared to FP+ means that you were people that ran to the park and hoarded fast pass tickets. That is the only reason you would prefer it over FP+. FP+ is beyond user friendly and makes it so everyone has access to getting on some rides past the line.

We just got back a month ago and the entire magic band and fast past system worked flawlessly! We booked our major rides we had to see for the park days we had and the rest we just figured out at the park. And when at the park, we were able to check through the app our schedule and switch FP on the fly with no issues. We found that going to the park early meant that we didn't need the early fast passes and were able to walk on or wait 5 to 10 minutes for a particular ride and I just went on my phone and switched my fast pass to something else. Now of course I was not able to find a fast pass for things like mine train the day of, but that was expected. On our second magic kingdom day we had a fast pass for buzz and rode it twice before our fast pass time and we switched it to something else. Very easy to use and never had an issue. And I was on disney WIFI (which I though would be horrible, but was pleasantly surprised) as I am from canada and didn't want to use data on my phone.

 

[Robo]

Complaining about how much better FP- was compared to FP+ means that you were people that ran to the park and hoarded fast pass tickets. That is the only reason you would prefer it over FP+.

!

 

[JoshuaShaw]

Complaining about how much better FP- was compared to FP+ means that you were people that ran to the park and hoarded fast pass tickets. That is the only reason you would prefer it over FP+. FP+ is beyond user friendly and makes it so everyone has access to getting on some rides past the line.

 

[Mikie]

But isn't that the majority of guests? What he wrote may not apply so much here. But I think he is striking a chord with the majority of people who are planning their first visit.


Again, I think this describes the majority. It is fine to say: "Well, he makes some valid points but only as they pertain to people who do a lot of planning in their everyday lives but who do not want to plan on vacation", as if this describes an insular minority. But is it?



If "people in general" feel this way, then why disagree with the writer's opinion? Instead, it reads as if you share his point of view. Or, better stated, perhaps you don't share his point of view, but you understand how people in general would.


I think at the price people are paying, good ol' Major FOMO, (or Five-Star General FOMO) is a huge deal. Real. Perceived. Self-Inflicted. Whatever. This is where perception becomes reality.

In the end, the guy wrote the article. I am certain that he did not wake up one day and say: "None of this is true. None of this is what I felt. None of this is what I believe. But I am going to write it anyway." He has captured the zeitgeist of a whole lot of people. And the "but more people than ever are going to WDW" argument doesn't work. Everyone (and I mean everyone) hates that legroom on airlines has shrunk. That overhead space is harder to get. That ticket prices are higher than ever. That we have to pay for checked bags. That the only food on board is "Buy On Board" junk. And yet the number of passengers who flew each year from 2008 until today has risen steadily in a straight line.

You write a counter-point to each of my statements, but I think we're in perfect agreement. I either didn't explain myself well, or you misunderstood. I maybe should have said I don't *feel* the way the writer does, but I can see his point of view for the reasons I enumerated. My comments are not supposed to refute the original article, but to say that I understand and believe that it's probably a majority opinion (although I don't share it) and then outlined what I belived to be the primary driving factors.

I agree that most guests are infrequent and just made sure to qualify that those guests would have different complaints than the (very valid) ones of vets. And I agree that the majority are not planners of the color-coded-spreadsheet variety and that the current climate/culture of Disney puts many people in the uncomfortable position of feeling that they need to overplan a vacation. And I admitted that I suffer from the same FOMO that causes angst in the author, but do feel that it's a sad statement about each of our own psyches rather than a "fault" of MM+

 

[grimley1968]

Just think of how bad FP+ was when it started with glitches and how much better it is now that it has had time to grow and settle.

Sort of like a fungus.

Complaining about how much better FP- was compared to FP+ means that you were people that ran to the park and hoarded fast pass tickets. That is the only reason you would prefer it over FP+.

I prefer the term "FP Sprinter/Hoarder/Fighter" because I didn't run to the park, I sprinted; I hoarded legacy FP's all day, just because I could; and I was a proud member of the Fight for Legacy FP Club (though I've been told I'm not supposed to talk about that).