Am I an awful person?

[slcmom]

Hey Samantha and all
Your problem really resonates with me. I never stood up to my in-laws, although they did the same kind of religious belittling that you describe. My dh also worked for them, which added considerable stress to our lives.

Now we've been married 37 years. Both my in-laws have passed. My greatest regret in my life in that I didn't succeed in having a loving relationship with them. Yes, they didn't make it easy, but I stopped trying. When that show "Dharma and Greg' was on the air I used to love it because of the loving but firm way Dharma dealt with her in-laws. How I wish I had behaved similarly.

I hope that you figure out a way to co-exist lovingly and respectfully. I believe it is worth immense effort. Now that my kids are marrying, I'm trying very hard to be loving and non-judgemental. It is not an easy nor natural relationship imo! Good luck!

 

[MrsKP]

What about doing a 4 night on Dream for a vow renewal? Then relax in Cocoa for a couple of nights and hop on the Fantasy for 7 night honeymoon. Or do a 3 night on the Dream and renew vows and stay on for 4 night honeymoon.

I think it would be rude to invite them and not tell them you plan to eat dinner alone. You could be honest and tell them you plan to eat dinner alone and them make sure your dining rotation is different. If that upsets them, they can decide to stay home.

 

[lbgraves]

I sincerely hope that if you have plans for a VR on CC that your cruise does not have any issue docking there -- for your sake.

Reading your posts hits a chord for me. We had issues with my ILs almost from the beginning. We didn't share things with them in order to avoid the comments. They never knew we went on a honeymoon for example because that would have been an extravagance. We paid for every cent of our wedding, BTW, so we were able to do what we wanted without having to get comments from either side. Years went by like this, even after my MIL was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. She suffered through that for over nine years. At some point I started ignoring the "guidelines" that had been in place. When she was in the hospital and the others were visiting her, I was at their home deep cleaning - which she hadn't been able to do in quite some time because she hadn't felt well. I started reaching out and giving her hugs whenever we saw her. It took her a little while to get use to that. She told me she didn't know that I cared. We had a few heart-to-hearts and bonded. In the end I beleive we had a very good relationship and she knew I loved her. Her strength inspires me now and I wish she was still with us. It may take you going outside of your comfort zone -- as well as theirs -- but the result could be a valued relationship.

 

[jlwhitney]

It seems like, I could be wrong, that she isn't looking for solutions to the problems, but almost more she wants people to justify with her that its okay to avoid the at dinner a few nights and such.

Whatever happens,this is a few years away and the plans could change a few times.

You need to do what works best for all, and compromises may need to made on your part to ensure everyone, including you have the best time possible.

 

[novajet]

Honestly, it sounds like the VR is for them, not you. So, if you are willing to do it for them, I think you should suck it up for a few days and deal with the negativity and just escape for a couple of quiet dinners alone.

Maybe they are feeling left out at not being invited to the actual wedding? I'm sure you had your reasons for a private ceremony without them, but I'm sure that was hurtful nonetheless. I know I'd be sad at not being able to be there at my child's wedding. So, if this VR is what they need to heal, and you are willing to do it, just enjoy the cruise and ignore the negativity. It's a win-win, if you let it be. They get to see the VR and feel like a part of their son's life, and you get a (mostly) enjoyable cruise.

 

[tojam]

Since you are seeking opinions I will offer one. IMHO, this has train wreck written all over it. Any time on board avoiding them will take some of the shine and magic off of your trip. They will find their normal faults and all will be slightly less than happy. I would plan a blow out party where your family lives. Dance, eat, drink and party. Then privately enjoy the cruise.

Just a thought.

 

[MrsScooby]

Firstly, can I say that I feel for you. My IL's are separated, and while I get on extremely well with one half, the other half (and partner) have always made me feel like I'm not good enough for my DH. It is not a nice situation to be in, and I can understand how it can make decisions such as trips away together stressful.

While I admire people's suggestions of telling your IL's how you feel, I also think there's a point where you 'can't teach an old dog new tricks'. If someone has been a grumpy curmudgeon their whole life, this isn't going to change just because their less-than-perfect DIL tells them so. I know if I faced up to my IL's about their various insults over the years, I would simply provide them with even more reasons to dislike me.

In saying all this, I do believe that you need to spend time with them on the cruise. Avoiding them will just make you feel guilty, them grumpy, and at the end no one will be happy.
What I do think, however, is that a week away is too long. You've obviously fell in love with the idea of a cruise on the Fantasy, but it makes no sense to book something you really want to do if it's ultimately just going to bring you more stress than happiness. If like you say, the VR is really only for the sake of family harmony, then it shouldn't matter where you have it. I think you have to accept that this is simply one of those cases where 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'. Have your VR in a park near home and then go on a cruise on your own at a later date.
If you really can't shake the idea of Castaway Cay, my advice is to look at the Dream instead as the cruises are shorter. Do a VR on a 3 or 4 night cruise instead and then do another cruise straight after it, just your DH and you, for a VR honeymoon. Explain to your inlaws that you would like to spend time as a group, but you would also like some time alone at the end. Also, you might also be able to argue that a shorter cruise will make the holiday more affordable for all guests coming along. Anyone who has the money to stay on longer can travel to WDW and spend a few nights there. Those who are strapped for cash or leave time from work can head home after about four days.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

I agree with this alot
I kept thinking that when my In-laws got to know me they would start to respect me and it never happened

Some things you just can't change and so you have to figure out how best to deal with the situation you've been given.

My DH and I have had to lie to our parents over the years because it was the only way we could keep them from interferring in our lives. That was just the way they were brought up. My DH's mantra has always been to tell his parents as little as possible and after several misguided attempts at being honest with them I have come to his way of thinking.

Good Luck

FTR I don't think you are a terrible person, just someone struggling with a difficult situation.

 

[Ikaikalani]

I agree with previous posters who advise: Do your vow renewals at home. invite the hoards of in-laws, let them complain/vent, and then the two of you head off, alone, on your 'renewal-honeymoon'

 

[lorenni]

It seems to me that you need to play by your inlaws rules so long as you are financially dependent on them. Sounds like you are well aware of the strings attached to this money.

And if 600 for textbooks is a hardship (I assume this is the case, as it was the example you have for why you toe the line with them), then isn't a DCL event a bit too extravagant? Plenty of time to take expensive vacations once you're both educated, employed and financially independent, no?

 

[Disney Dreams]

Here's the deal:

My DH and I want to do a vow renewal on DCL for our 5 year anniversary. Even though it's still a few years away I can't get it out of my mind. We are going to invite family but we don't really want to eat dinner with them every night that week. My in-laws are the kind of people that will find anything to complain about. They don't really like the idea of a Disney Cruise but would come begrudgingly for a vow renewal. I don't want my dining room experience tainted by their constant need to find fault in anything and everything.

Is it wrong and selfish of us to request that we don't sit with them for dinner after they paid so much to come on a cruise for us? How would I even handle that? I can't exactly say "we don't want to sit with you because you're negative, pessimistic jerks" even though that's what it comes down to. I was thinking telling them that who we sit with is just a request and when we aren't with them have a "whoops, oh well" attitude.

Has anyone else been in this situation? How did you handle it? Or how would you if you were in this situation?

(bolding above is mine)

The very simple answer to the question you asked that I have bolded is: yes.

It's akin to saying, "Hey everyone, come spend lots of money on a vacation you would never choose to take on your own to see us renew our vows since we excluded you from the wedding, but we don't want to even spend less than two hours an evening with you during dinner." Really? Do YOU think that sounds "wrong and selfish"?

If we are doing the vow renewal they will show up. When we got married we didn't have anyone there so it's kind of a big deal. My only concern is dinner. We can take separate flights, the ship is big enough that we wouldn't see them during the day much unless we planned it. Especially because we are the activity going type and they aren't.

It's not like I don't want to be around them at all, I do want some quality family time. And they are fine in small doses. I just don't want to hear about how stupid they think AP is when I'm trying to enjoy the magic. Or how they couldn't get 4 lounge chairs together by Quiet Cove so it threw off their plans for the whole day, EVERY SINGLE NIGHT at dinner. We plan on doing a family Palo dinner and will probably end up doing several lunches and excursions together.

(bolding is mine) You essentially are trying to find a way to take separate vacations, but appear as if you have invited them along. It just doesn't work that way. That's just rude.

We talked about that, but DH and I really have our hearts set on a DCL ceremony. We have however decided we would do the VR cruise with them and save up the money to do a B2B and stay onboard another week after they get off as kind of a second honeymoon.

(bolding is mine) You and your DH cannot afford his college education, but you are planning B2B cruises and a relatively pricey vow renewal? Look, I understand wanting things. Trust me on that. I completely understand. But if your in-laws are paying for their son's education, how do you justify going on B2B cruises that you are paying for instead? Wouldn't that money pay for a semester or two of college? Sometimes the things we want to do have to wait their turn. It seems to me to be extremely disrespectful to your in-laws to be taking B2B cruises while they are footing the bill for college and then trying to figure out how to avoid having dinner together during a cruise you have invited them on. Do you think that sounds like the "right" thing to do?

...Trust me it's not that I WANT to vacation with these people, it's that I have no way of not inviting them to another "wedding".

Okay, "these people" are your husband's parents. If you ever have children, they are your kids grandparents. I understand you did not pick them, but they come with your husband. They are part of the deal. Your dislike for them is a MUCH bigger problem than this trip. However, since you asked advice on this trip, let's stick with that topic:
You did not invite them to the wedding. You are doing the vow renewal mostly for them. So, let's plan it somewhere that they will hate and maybe they will not come. Do you see how that is not a solution? I understand you really want to do a cruise (B2B for that matter). I understand you are feeling pressured to do a VR so they can be included. Why not do a VR elsewhere that is not a destination ceremony and in a few years when you and your DH are self-supportive (i.e. no one else is paying for your DH's education), take a B2B cruise, just the two of you? I know you want to do the cruises now, but do you see when reading your own words why that may not be the best choice at this time?

...I posted this thread to try to get some advice from people who may have been in my situation with difficult in-laws, and I have been given some very good advice, so I thank you all for that. I know you can't post anything on here without getting flamed by someone so I expected such comments and I understand where they are coming from.

But that is not what you asked for in your first post. Even the title of your thread says, "Am I an awful person?" You were not asking, "How did YOU deal with difficult in-laws on a cruise?"

We all have family "issues." My mother and father had to be seated at tables on opposite sides of the room at my wedding. Would I invite them on a cruise together? hahahaha! NEVER! The trick is navigating through life dealing with our individual family issues. You are creating a situation (family vacation in a captive environment) that does not align with your desired way to interact with the invited guests (not interact with them as much as possible). Do the VR elsewhere. Make your life easy.

...He has stood up for me before and we were stuck paying for $600 in books for the semester because they didn't care for what he had to say. So for the sake of my husband's education and our future, I keep my mouth shut.... for now.

Well, they're paying for his education. That does not mean you (and he) do not have rights to your own opinions, but if getting "stuck paying for $600 in books" was a huge issue, maybe B2B cruises is not the best choice... for now.

I would suggest thinking of an alternate choice for the VR ceremony and think about postponing the B2B cruises as a celebration trip for your husband's college graduation in a few years. Something to think about....

- Dreams

 

[JimGA]

It seems like, I could be wrong, that she isn't looking for solutions to the problems, but almost more she wants people to justify with her that its okay to avoid the at dinner a few nights and such.

QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Patrickprincess]

It seems like, I could be wrong, that she isn't looking for solutions to the problems, but almost more she wants people to justify with her that its okay to avoid the at dinner a few nights and such.

QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly!

I see nothing wrong with her and hubby having a few nights to themself. However i do think she should sit down with inlaws and tell them as nicely as she can that they should keep thier opoins to themselfs

 

[kcashner]

As long as a couple or individual is financially dependent on the parents/in laws, it is reasonable to expect interference. It's a rare parent who is willing to sign the checks and not attempt to exert some control. When a couple is ready/willing/able to cut the financial apron strings, they are also in a position to insist on independence in other areas of their lives.

When I was in grad school, my parents gave me a car because I needed it. I was no longer going to the same place each day, so riding a city bus didn't work! A few years later they basically told me to buy myself a car so they could give "their" car to my sister "because it would be so nice for her to have a car for her senior year!" You know, I didn't appreciate till I had done it how nice it was to be rid of the last vestige of their "support" and control. And they didn't pay for my education.

I question a lot of things OP has said in this post, but each family creates its own pathology. And they have to work thru that which they create.

 

[cruisecrasher]

As long as a couple or individual is financially dependent on the parents/in laws, it is reasonable to expect interference. It's a rare parent who is willing to sign the checks and not attempt to exert some control. When a couple is ready/willing/able to cut the financial apron strings, they are also in a position to insist on independence in other areas of their lives.

This would be why we waited to get married until after college. And why my father wasn't interested to hear proposals of boys that could not support a wife and the responsibilities therein.
Money creates obligation and silence in a situation that chafes. Basically, If you'd rather owe them and owe Disney, then it seems you're going to have to pay interest, and in your in laws case it seems they'd like to be paid in time and attention.
We have difficult in laws as well, in this case they're my parents (we call them our in laws because they act and function as such, also it's nice to know your spouse has your back since they're originally my parents, it was my responsibility to set the tone in that relationship, but Ben is right there to back me up). My brother outwardly and obviously mocks my (conservative, Christian) religious views (up to and including praying to Chuck Norris when my mother asked him to give blessing at Thanksgiving dinner) while my mother merely argues a "of course I'm Christian but that doesn't mean it's the only way" (relativism) so I can get how harmful either can be. (My father, although Christian was divorced from my mother after we married and moved across the country shortly thereafter, so although we rarely argue, we seldom get to visit either.)
Basically through a lot of prayer and guidance, we've developed healthier boundaries. I've got a couple book recommendations, if you'd like a pm.

 

[cruisecrasher]

Sorry if previous post is TMI.
I wanted to assure OP that people can and have gone from ridiculously busted up relationship boundary issues (me, my DH and parents) to loving, albeit drastically changed relationships (also us)

 

[ranidayz]

Remember - DCL is a magical place, you don't want to take away from that. Vacationing with family is challenging even if you do get along. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for a whole lot of ugly and unhappiness. And no, you can't invite people to a trip they'd never go on by themselves in your honor.....and then ditch them. That's a trajectory your family will not recover from easily.

If you all go on the cruise, prepare to spend every moment with them and any time you have off should be considered profit.

And.....if you can pay for your own DCL cruise- either stop taking their money for books or get them a nice $600 gift each semester.

 

[SamandWill1921]

I appreciate all of the opinions. However I did not post this thread for my actions to be justified. My thought was 'this is a subject weighing on the mind of my husband. Of all the people on the boards, SOMEONE has to have been in my shoes at one point or another. Maybe they can help me figure out a solution and ease my husband's mind'.
And yes, the supporitve comments and the flames have all given me something to think about.

Yes, my husband will graduate about a year before we take this cruise. our financial situation will be much better when both of us are working. We LOVE to travel so we drive 10 year old cars, live rather simply and shop at Sam's Club so that we can save every penny possible to go on vacations like DCL.