A Missing Kid Story

[MrsScooby]

Our CM on the Wonder in January of 2010 was horrible when my children got sick, but that's a story for another time.

I couldn't care less about compassion for Mom (well, I do but that isn't what really concerns me), what mystifies me is that the CMs were "stumped" about why they couldn't find him. That should have lasted about 2 minutes before alarm bells sounded (figuratively speaking). These are kids we're talking about and they do tend to wander off into places they shouldn't go and 3 year olds do crawl into corners and go to sleep; why in heaven's name don't those CMs know every nook and cranny of the spaces they are assigned to?!?!?

Plus, again, why didn't they know where that child was for over an hour? That club ranges in age from 3-12; it isn't outside the realm of possibility that an older child could have hurt a younger child and "hidden" them in an corner somewhere. Horrible thought, but let's face it, we don't have rules/regulations/policies/procedures to protect us from the good stuff.

Look, like I've said before I am unfortunately familiar with the total panic that comes when your young child goes missing. I was in a Home Depot aisle with my son between my DH and me. I just panicked when I realized he was gone. Running up and down the aisles and running to customer service so they could lock down and search for my child. it seemed like FOREVER.
My DH was scared too but kept his head, realized there was no way my DS could have gone far without us seeing him go and kept walking up and down the aisle calling his name. eventually he heard a giggle and found my son hiding behind a box on the lowest shelf.
In retrospect, it seemed obvious that that was where he would be. But it is possible to miss the obvious when you panic.
It also is easy to overestimate the time that a child is missing because you do go into child hunting mode like the Dad in this situation said.

As for another child hurting a younger one...don't you think the younger child would have cried out if he was hurt??? My younger siblings would get real loud in attempts to get me in trouble with my parents so I think the older child hurting and stashing the body of a younger child without anyone noticing is very unlikely.

FTR, I'd be mad too if a CM was unkind to you when your kids were sick. Hope you put their name on a comment card so DCL was informed.

 

[gilsan]

How do you know it wasn't locked down? How do you know a "special team" wasn't dispatched (dispatched where? the place his dad left instead of searched thoroughly?)? How do you know it wasn't broadcast to the CMs?

 

[justmestace]

Quote from Bumbershoot: (Standard quote didn't work)
"Disney, with its lawyers, is not going to tell an untruth that could be proven wrong."


Maybe not the Disney Corporation...but in my case, several CM's did not tell the truth. And they can get away with that because they have a lot of lawyers. They knew I couldn't afford to fight them after I got home.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Totally agree. I would not expect any type of compensation for something like this but I absolutely would have expected a more seamless security system in place for a missing child. The parks have it. My daughter hid herself in the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground at Hollywood Studios. I was very pregnant and could not keep up with her (or fit through all the crawl spaces ). She was 3.5 years old. I looked and had her 5 yr old brother looking for probably about 5-10 minutes, but I was starting to panic and was alerting a cast member. I finally spotted her way above going quickly through a tunnel. She's now 11 and I still remember the sheer terror I felt at losing her in such a crowded place. It was over quickly & was no fault of any one but me (and her---but she was 3 & I would never expect a 3 yr old to NOT HIDE---they do that because it is fun & they are too young to foresee the worry adults feel).

I also would not let something like that ruin my trip though it would probably have been the last time my child was left in the club. I'd need clear assurance from someone in charge to leave my 3 yr old in there again.

I can't believe people think this father overreacted. 45 minutes, 20 minutes...it is a long time to not find a 3 yr old with pools & an ocean all around. I am thankful my children are older (8, 11, 13) because I do think they fend for themselves a lot in the Oceaneer Club/Lab. My middle child was 10 the last time we cruised and she had a following of little girls who waited for her to arrive in the evening. She would read to them, play with them...basically a CM assistant. She loves that role & there weren't a lot of kids her age to play with her. My then 7 yr old had lots of children her age to play with.

I guess in April, I will make the CMs at the Oceaneer Lab show that my 8 yr old's band is readable . I'm glad to know this happened.

I love Disney but I think they make mistakes and do not always handle their mistakes well. Reading the reports from passengers on the Dream and Fantasy during Hurricane Irene (I think it was Irene), I am not under the illusion that DCL can do no wrong.

What a great post. I think those of us with kids, especially young ones know that there is maybe about 5-10 seconds when you loose sight of your child (when they are under your care) before the panic starts to rise. Thankfully, I have never been much past that before I got a hold of them again. I can't image what it would have been like for that family but I think I would have unfortunately been like the mother and been in bits if my child was 'missing' or at minimum not able to be located.

Disney is not perfect, mistakes happen and sometime policies and practices need to be revisited. I feel that this should be treated as an opportunity to improve in this area.

 

[justmestace]

So, are you going to post about them "Everywhere"?

Seriously, why does it matter if random strangers online believe you or another random strangers story?

I don't understand what you mean when you ask if I'm going to post about "them" (??Disney? CM's?) everywhere....

And it matters to me whether the people on the DIS believe me because I've been here a long time, and there are quite a few (100+) people here who know me....whom I've cruised with multiple times before, and visited with during other vacations. I wouldn't have wanted to come here and tell my story and sit back and watch others tear me PERSONALLY apart.

I'm overweight. I read things all the time about overweight people....and like you, I don't take it personally, because they're talking about a demographic that I happen to fall into, but not ME personally. It's easier to turn the other cheek (even if it's a chubby one) if it isn't directed at me personally.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

I read the blog. And while we get the impression that the child was missing for 45 minutes, because that's how long the dad was running around, how long after dad left the club the second time was the child found?
And I don't think this man is lying. I think some aspects may be embelished. Mainly because of this man's profession:

So let's say that the child was found shortly after he left the club to search rest of the ship, why did they not try to reach him on a wave phone (assuming he had one) or better yet have him paged to guest services so they could inform him? The lack of this happening, lends credibility to what the 'father' maintains..there was absolutely a break down in communication and a lack of regard for the seriousness of the issue.

 

[MrsScooby]

I don't understand what you mean when you ask if I'm going to post about "them" (??Disney? CM's?) everywhere....

And it matters to me whether the people on the DIS believe me because I've been here a long time, and there are quite a few (100+) people here who know me....whom I've cruised with multiple times before, and visited with during other vacations. I wouldn't have wanted to come here and tell my story and sit back and watch others tear me PERSONALLY apart.

I'm overweight. I read things all the time about overweight people....and like you, I don't take it personally, because they're talking about a demographic that I happen to fall into, but not ME personally. It's easier to turn the other cheek (even if it's a chubby one) if it isn't directed at me personally.

I have no doubt that Stace's story is true. My brother was a Disney CM and so I know not all CMs are angels

But I don't know this Dad in this story, not the way I know Stace, and so when all the facts are laid out in his case, I am thinking he was a bit unrealistic with regards to his expectations of what DCL was supposed to do.
That doesn't mean I don't cringe at his story as it reminds me of the times I've felt the same way...
just think that expecting the captain to make a special visit to his table to apologize (maybe DCL legal people advised aginst this or maybe he was busy elsewhere), or expecting DCL to refund the price of their cruise was not realistic.

 

[KappaSigHero]

I feel that this should be treated as an opportunity to improve in this area.

Any setback, no matter how large or small, should be a teaching opportunity and a learning opportunity.

 

[ilovetexas]

How do you know it wasn't locked down? How do you know a "special team" wasn't dispatched (dispatched where? the place his dad left instead of searched thoroughly?)? How do you know it wasn't broadcast to the CMs?

Because the father (who was, admittedly, running around the ship when he should probably have stayed put) said he spoke to the CMs at both the gangway and Guest Services and they were unaware. If there was a "special team" dispatched, that sounds more like an organized effort and I would imagine the father would have been properly informed, by the kid's club CMs, about what was going to happen. He wasn't. He may be overstepping asking for a refund, but I don't doubt his story.

So let's say that the child was found shortly after he left the club to search rest of the ship, why did they not try to reach him on a wave phone (assuming he had one) or better yet have him paged to guest services so they could inform him? The lack of this happening, lends credibility to what the 'father' maintains..there was absolutely a break down in communication and a lack of regard for the seriousness of the issue.

 

[manhattanman]

That seems to be something that's not clear even with most online accounts- many people assume that it's a GPS- can anyone confirm exactly what the bracelet does? I can see it knowing which club your kid is in if they scan upon entry exit, but a transmitter of exact location throughout a ship doesn't sound feasible to me.

In the clubs my guess is RFID to triangulate. It is definitely not GPS and its not for the whole ship.

 

[TLSnell1981]

We were on the Dream last year. I sent my teenage DGD to pick up her 9 year old sister from the kids club. DGD called and said, she wasn't there. I got on the phone with the CM, who informed me, that she wasn't checked in. I replied, "Oh yes, she is...I checked her in myself." The CM responded, "maybe, someone checked her out". " I said, "Uh, no...that's why her sisiter is there now". We were allowed into the club and FINALLY found her. The only explaination from Disney, "it was a mistake".

It was scary, but I was assured this was a rare occurrence. Now, I'm a little concerned...

 

[darkwing818]

I've been reading this thread for most of the day, trying to figure out how I would react in this situation. 1st off like other of PPs we did have the terrifying experience of having our 3 year old daughter go missing for about an hour or so. Trust me the "horrible" thoughts that go through your head are unbelievable. This is even compounded further, if you're trying to keep your wife from totally going off the rails. So here's my 2 cents worth
Did the dad over react? Based on my experience absolutely not.
Does DCL have a problem with their wrist bands not functioning properly, maybe but I'm not an electronic or metal expert.
Could DCL have done a better job with the parents, based on the dads blog, absolutely.
But here's where I'd differ from the dad in question. After the child was found "safe & unharmed", I would be over the moon with relief. If I was asked by the CD about "compensation", my reaction would be pretty straight forward, I've got my child back that's all I need & want....

 

[bmer1rick]

As I understand the Lab/Club checkout having used it over a hundred times, there is only one way for a child to leave the club without being checked out and that is the VERY low possibility that a CM allowed a kid to tailgate another. I have never seen a CM allow this and in fact have seen many, many times where a CM told a child to wait to be checked out when trying to tailgate (or the parent trying to get them out quicker).

For a child to checkout of the club/lab, they must swipe the Mickey Band.. so if the band would have said "not readable" a CM would have noticed it and replaced it on the spot. If the child had checked out, they would have seen it in there system as checked out and by who (unless they have checkout privileges which I doubt a 6 yr old would have had).

So, the CMs probably knew that there was a 99.9% probability that the child was still in the club somewhere.. just needed to check better. But, the story never says they reassured the parents of this or that they communicated that to them at all. DCL definitely should have done that and maybe the father would have spent his time with a better search of the club..

Am I wrong??

 

[Bonniec]

The concerning part of the story is that it takes someone that long to find him in there. How big are the kids rooms?? I don't think he's owed anymore than he got but they could have been more consoling. Just reading that story brings make my heart clench.

My son went missing for a short while last year in kindergarten when the bus driver dropped him off in a random neighborhood and left him. It was his first day halfway through the year because we had just moved here so the idiot driver should have noticed a new child. I was even hesitant to let him ride it in the first place but my son begged and pleaded and the lady behind the front desk told me he'd be just fine. Luckily the ordeal didn't last that long and another mother found him crying and walking down the street. We had about 30 minutes where we didn't known where our son was. The feeling is indescribable. My husband tried to keep calm. I was buying hysterical. Im still haunted by what ifs.

They should have been more consoling to the parents at the very least.




ETA:

This is even compounded further, if you're trying to keep your wife from totally going off the rails.

Totally!

 

[cgolf]

deleting

 

[dpuck1998]

I've been reading this thread for most of the day, trying to figure out how I would react in this situation. 1st off like other of PPs we did have the terrifying experience of having our 3 year old daughter go missing for about an hour or so. Trust me the "horrible" thoughts that go through your head are unbelievable. This is even compounded further, if you're trying to keep your wife from totally going off the rails. So here's my 2 cents worth
Did the dad over react? Based on my experience absolutely not.
Does DCL have a problem with their wrist bands not functioning properly, maybe but I'm not an electronic or metal expert.
Could DCL have done a better job with the parents, based on the dads blog, absolutely.
But here's where I'd differ from the dad in question. After the child was found "safe & unharmed", I would be over the moon with relief. If I was asked by the CD about "compensation", my reaction would be pretty straight forward, I've got my child back that's all I need & want....

BRAVO! Exactly! All I can think when I read that one sided blog is, this dad really went through that and could only think, hey now I get a free cruise. Sad.

 

[Jugglemom]

Each time we checked DS out they were able to tell us if he was in the Club or the Lab, and they were right each time. There is some level of monitoring with the bands while in the club and lab.




Disney, with its lawyers, is not going to tell an untruth that could be proven wrong.




I don't know what policy and how it was changed, but when you pick up your child, you are sent into the club/lab and you, alone, go find him/her.

And if he could go as many places on the ship as he went before finding out, 45 minutes after it all started, that his child was there, he wasn't looking for very long in the club and lab.




Absolutely. If the mom was the weak link, the dad needed to be STRONG. And strength means realizing that disney (especially disney) has strong policies in place for finding lost children, will DO those things, won't necessarily tell you all of them (what if you are a parent AND a creep who is getting info for the future? exactly how and what they will do isn't our business), and will help you. Strength means helping, not hindering. Not running all over the place, not questioning people, not being hysterical, not yelling at people and making assumptions, not going wild. It means allowing the CMs to do their jobs.

Maybe next time the mom will be able to hold it together, and she can be the strong one, while her husband goes bananas.




I think we know that Disney has policies in place for missing children, and that one of the policies wouldn't be "freak out and scare everyone even more".









What a coincidence that this should happen to a person with such a job...




Good to know!




It's not true for me.




I don't think he was helping, either. And how interesting that the cruise was so ruined, but they were able to leave the toddler and baby with someone (maybe they left them with the friend) to have a grownup dinner.




Just in case you didn't see, the dad's blog says "I went inside and they told me that my son had crawled into a ‘tunnel’ of stacked chairs and fell asleep..."





Exactly. For the Amber alerts it has already been verified that the child truly IS missing, they aren't just hiding or sleeping in a hidden spot.




I've seen, and been part of, threads touting other lines. Maybe we're just reading different threads.




Metal LEGS. Not metal chairs.

Alas my in-house expert on if a stack of metal-legged chairs could cause a problem with the band is on a plane on his way to Amsterdam right now, but it does seem possible. The child's band supposedly read as "unreadable", he happened to be found under a bunch of stacked chairs...1+1 could very well be 2 here.




Wow.




I get the feeling that the DAD didn't know where the child was for 45 minutes, but that the child was found before that 45 minutes was up. If dad had kept his rear in the club/lab, lowered his level of annoyance at having to go in search of his child (which I think is a good policy, personally), and had truly searched, he might have found him well within that time.

My 10 year old cousin stood at the gates of the club on the Dream TRYING to get out for about 15 minutes and never even came close to being successful. We couldn't sign him out and his mom, dad, and grandma were unreachable or having to wake up his sister to get out to get him (he did not have permission to leave on his own), so we hung out outside the gates while he was inside, trying the gates every so often. Apart from the chaos and lack of signs telling you where to go when you're picking up and dropping off, just seeing their system gave me confidence that no one, especially not a little 3 year old who couldn't vault over the gates like my cousin probably thought about doing, could get out of there accidentally.




That's not the level of care to expect.




But as an attorney, surely you know about disney's attorneys, and how they aren't going to let something stay in place that has lots of problems. I bet they're covered

You may think that but that is not entirely accurate. I am in-house counsel for a company larger than Disney. As legal counsel we provide advice as to legal risk. The " business" unit then determines whether or not it is willing to take that legal risk based on financial metrics. Disney may very well decide that the operating costs involved with hiring more staff to increase the child to staff ratio is substantially more than the costs related to settling any incidents that occur. Since, as a condition to settlement, it is usually require that the parties sign a Nondisclosure Agreement, these incidents are never widely reported. There is no altruism involved - companies decide to do things only to the extent it is financially advantageous or disadvantageous, as the case may be.

With respect to the level of care that I expect my child to receive, I do not think it is too much to expect for them to be produced on demand and in one piece. To the extent there is any injury that occurs to a child beyond the norm then we look at whether it was reasonably foreseeable. I think it is reasonably foreseeable that a 3 year old when not supervised in a play space where there are 12 year olds could get seriously injured - in fact, I think it is more likely than not. This leads me to believe that Disney has taken the approach I outlined above and that such incidents are under NDA which is why we don't hear about them.

But, then again, I have been corporate counsel for so long that I am admittedly jaded.

 

[Bonniec]

BRAVO! Exactly! All I can think when I read that one sided blog is, this dad really went through that and could only think, hey now I get a free cruise. Sad.

Agreed. My next thoughts would have been...what can DCL do to fix this so it doesn't happen again to someone else.

 

[lorenni]

True, the kid WAS in the club.....but if his bracelet was not working, the staff had no idea if he was there or not. If the device wouldn't show that he was there, then it wouldn't have sounded if he had left. I hope each bracelet is being checked.

This. Yes. If my kid's bracelet came up as "unreadable" I would absolutely panic - as would most every parent on this board, I bet.

 

[Allanaw]

My just turned 5 year old fell asleep in the kids club/lab one day. We also couldn't find him and I had a few moments of panic. I ended up leaving when we couldn't find him to get my husband to help look for him as I was getting into panic mode. We found him asleep under a bean bag chair in the lab. I don't blame DCL for that one. If anything I'm happy they wore him out enough to take a nap.