A Missing Kid Story

[neg58]

I have been lurking for a couple months on here in anticipation of our cruise on the Fantasy next month. I am so shocked by the responses on this thread that it pushed me into actually joining and commenting.

I am surprised at how many posters think the father overreacted or that he should be embarrassed at his behavior. On my cruise next month, I, too, will be traveling with a 3 y.o. And it has always been my plan to leave him and my 6 y.o. In the kids club occasionally. Perhaps I am unreasonable, but if I leave my very young child in the care if someone else I expect them to know where my child is AT ALL TIMES. Despite the fact that in his case the child was found safely, we seem to be missing the fact that for 45 minutes the people who were assigned to his care had absolutely no clue where this child was. That, in my opinion, is unacceptable and I am sure that if this were a daycare in any given town the relevant day care licensing board would take issue with "misplacing" a child.

A 3 year old needs significantly more supervision than an 11 year old and adequate provisions need to be made for that fact. At the very minimum the counselors should be taking regular attendance at regular intervals of the children that are in their care. If my child were missing for 45 minutes (specifically if I have entrusted their care to a childcare service) those 45 minutes would be the most horrific of my entire life. I would be thrilled that my child was safe but I would be out for blood. That the child was found safe was no credit to the counselors as they had no idea where he/she was.

I agree with you - unless you are told that that is NOt how they run the Club, that there are no assigned groups, that kids are free to run around the club wherever they want. If you are told that there is no specific supervision of any particular child, then I think you have to decide if your child will be safe in that environment. It's a 'this is what is offered, do you want to participate? situation. Many cruisers don't use the Clubs. I think in this case, the child was young, tired, it was late, and he quietly fell asleep. Should the CM have noticed? Yes. Is it a major child care failure? No.

This is NOt daycare. These are CM who aren't necessarily trained in early childhood development. They are watching kids who might not be used to day care, especially drop off daycare where the child doesn't know anyone else and doesn't know the leaders.

I really don't expect perfection in the clubs. The electronic bracelets are going to break down at times. They then have the KTTW cards that can be checked at the counter, but no child goes out without scanning the bracelet and if that doesn't work, then questions are asked. Kids can be pushed and shoved and fall and be bitten in the Club, just like they can be at day care. Three year olds push and shove and bite. It is not a perfect environment. It is not individual care. It is group care

Do I think DCL should have done more to help the father find the child in the club? Yes. When the bracelet didn't work, a supervisor should have said, "OK, he's in here somewhere. Everyone with kids doing an activity sit on the floor where you are and you 5 CM's search NOW." Believe it or not, many of the kids in the clubs have experienced Lock-Downs at school and know what to do! My kids have gone through 5 or so of them, ranging from 20 minutes to 6 hours.

I have more of a problem with DCL thinking a bottle of wine is the answer to every issue (I've heard of it before being sent after a complaint). Find out what the problem was with the bracelet and let the parents know, even if the answer is simply that it needed to be reset. Ask if the parents would like a tour of the club to see if there is anything that can be done to rehabilitate the cruise, such as assigning a cast member to be with the child in the club (the child would have to be willing to stay with the CM and do what the CM is assigned to do for that session too). Why would stopping by the table and wishing the mother a happy birthday resolve the issue or even show that DCL cares? I don't get that request at all, unless the parents have a need to feel important.

Nancy

 

[lbgraves]

It sounds like some people here have unrealistic expectations about the ability of the club CMs to keep tabs on their kids. Each area of the club will have a CM watching over it ideally. Kids can move feely from one area to another if they get bored with the activity they are doing and want to do something else. [That is within the club or the lab on the Magic/Wonder but gets even more difficult to track their exact location on the new ships since the club/lab are linked and not across the hallway]. The CM overseeing the first activity is not going to say -- attention, little Johnny is leaving the coloring room and might be heading over to the dressup room so be on the lookout. The kid to CM ratio doesn't make that possible. This isn't a preschool classroom where you have a 1:5 ratio of adults to kids. Of course, this is made more challenging by the mixture of ages 3-12 in the club/lab. The CMs now have to make sure that the older kids don't run over the little kids. The ratio in the club/lab is 1:25. If a child has a problem that requires special attention, then you basically lose a CM for 24 other kids. With this is mind, it would be easy for a CM to notice that the kid with the blue shirt is no longer sitting at a table coloring, but not have seen him leave the room or crawl under chairs or anything else. I think it was easier when the kids had to wear name tags before the bracelets. Having their names on their shirts allowed the CMs to get to know them and learn their names better. Instead of "the kid with the blue shirt" they could have asked another CM if they had seen Johnny. Yes Disney has great places for kids, but I don't send my kids to WDW on their own.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

While it hindsight, its apparent the child wasn't in danger, I don't think it can be said that the 'system worked'. If the system worked, when the CM's checked their system, it should have said that the child is still in the club. They could have then focused their search in that area instead of the entire ship, which probably caused so much time to pass from when the child was thought to be 'missing' to 'found'.

I agree to a point, I back off a bit, The system worked in that the child was still where he was supposed to have been, nowtaking your points Did the system work in that he was found fast...........Now just how long was it before they found the child ???......remember the Father was running around all over the ship....it could easily been 10 15 minutes, before the frind brought him the news. So under that possiblity.he was not lost long and if the Fatrher had not run off they may have been him faster and he would have known faster.


AKK

 

[KappaSigHero]

I don't think anyone is saying that the father should not have been worried during the 45 minutes- or that he is an evil villain. I think he was justified in being afraid, even panicking. I'll even say that the CMs will need re-training in how they inform parents (I have no issue with them being calm- there are other kids in those clubs that probably don't need panicked CMs.)

However, I think the request for a refund and the post as presented by the Consumerist are a bit much. On the dad's blog, the dad details the meeting he had with the Cruise Director, and the responses from the Cruise Director seemed entirely reasonable. I think there's also the issue of the dad stating that the bracelets are GPS devices- his misunderstanding of their capabilities may have unintentionally led to miscommunication about how much the CMs could have done.

 

[KappaSigHero]

I agree with you - unless you are told that that is NOt how they run the Club, that there are no assigned groups, that kids are free to run around the club wherever they want. If you are told that there is no specific supervision of any particular child, then I think you have to decide if your child will be safe in that environment. It's a 'this is what is offered, do you want to participate? situation. Many cruisers don't use the Clubs. I think in this case, the child was young, tired, it was late, and he quietly fell asleep. Should the CM have noticed? Yes. Is it a major child care failure? No.

This is NOt daycare. These are CM who aren't necessarily trained in early childhood development. They are watching kids who might not be used to day care, especially drop off daycare where the child doesn't know anyone else and doesn't know the leaders.

I really don't expect perfection in the clubs. The electronic bracelets are going to break down at times. They then have the KTTW cards that can be checked at the counter, but no child goes out without scanning the bracelet and if that doesn't work, then questions are asked. Kids can be pushed and shoved and fall and be bitten in the Club, just like they can be at day care. Three year olds push and shove and bite. It is not a perfect environment. It is not individual care. It is group care

Do I think DCL should have done more to help the father find the child in the club? Yes. When the bracelet didn't work, a supervisor should have said, "OK, he's in here somewhere. Everyone with kids doing an activity sit on the floor where you are and you 5 CM's search NOW." Believe it or not, many of the kids in the clubs have experienced Lock-Downs at school and know what to do! My kids have gone through 5 or so of them, ranging from 20 minutes to 6 hours.

I have more of a problem with DCL thinking a bottle of wine is the answer to every issue (I've heard of it before being sent after a complaint). Find out what the problem was with the bracelet and let the parents know, even if the answer is simply that it needed to be reset. Ask if the parents would like a tour of the club to see if there is anything that can be done to rehabilitate the cruise, such as assigning a cast member to be with the child in the club (the child would have to be willing to stay with the CM and do what the CM is assigned to do for that session too). Why would stopping by the table and wishing the mother a happy birthday resolve the issue or even show that DCL cares? I don't get that request at all, unless the parents have a need to feel important.

Nancy

Great post!

 

[Jugglemom]

If that is the level of supervision you are looking for then you need to leave your child in the Nursery and not the Clubs. I think three years old is kind of debatable for the Clubs anyhow unless you have a very mature child. The Club is far from one on one and I don't think it is reasonable to expect the to know where every kid is at every time. If you go at boarding for open house and see the layout I think you will she why that is. Or for that matter take the virtual tour at the disney website.

My last cruise I had to search the Club three times to find one of my kids. They were in a costume and that made it hard to pick him out.

I give my 10 year old daughter the right to check herself in and out but not my 7 year old son, so I expect him to be within the confines of the Club or Lab at all times and for them to know which one he is in but not to know where he specifically is within that area.

Honestly, I wish I had all this information prior to booking as this is not the way it was marketed. I had high expectations for this upcoming trip. We went on a non disney cruise a Few years ago when our oldest was 4 and the kids club was divided into smaller age groups and I felt that the level of supervision was exceptional. As an attorney, I am surprised that Disney would assume the potential liability risk inherent in the relaxed childcare environment described on here. I can only imagine that any incidents that have occurred (as they are bound to occur in such an environment) are silenced by means of settlements and NDAs.

 

[justmestace]

Why? Let it go. This is the DIS. You will find DCL apologists. There are 2 reasons for that. 1. People love the product, and people tend to defend what they love even if they look foolish doing so. 2. People ignore certain things because they want to feel good about what they spend $1000's on. But, let's be honest. You are just as bad as the apologists. It seems you have an axe to grind because of your experience. You feel a certain way, others feel differently........No big deal.

If I had an ax to grind, I would have never cruised with them again. But I have, and I have one more scheduled.

Also, if I had an ax to grind, I would have blogged and posted all over everywhere. But I didn't.

If I had an ax to grind, I would have posted about it as soon as I got back home. But I didn't.

It was 2 years before I even mentioned what happened to me, and very few people have even heard the whole story, and I only mentioned it when I did because it related to whatever the topic was. And I think the couple of times I mentioned it was because people were being told while they were still onboard that the "nice friendly people shoreside" would help them. And they don't.

Besides, why would I have posted about it here, when no one (except a bunch of DIS friends who witnessed it all) would believe me anyway???

I only have an ax to grind with people who cannot see that things happen all the time, all over...even on, or at, (gasp!) Disney.
Rather than even halfway admit that yes, something could happen on DCL, it just seems that there's more and more and more defending and trying to make up excuses or blaming someone else. It's just sad. So I guess it boils down to the fact that I don't have any ax to grind against Disney. It's close-minded people who I have trouble tolerating.

 

[ilovetexas]

Goodness, the DCL cheerleaders are out in full force today!

When this child was discovered missing AND his arm band wasn't working, that club should have been on lockdown until he was located. PERIOD! I cannot believe that this wasn't treated as a missing child and a special team dispatched to find him quickly, while walking the parents through the process. What in the heck is DCL protocol for a missing child? If it's a "code blue" or whatever, that child's face should have been broadcast to every CM on that ship, IMMEDIATELY!

Would this have been completely necessary if he was "missing" in the club but they got a readout on his armband showing him there somewhere? No. But that wasn't the case and all of you know it.

Stacey is right....if this had been another cruise line....heaven forbid, Carnival.....you same cheerleaders would already have them hanging from the rafters and NOT ONCE would you have mentioned the questionable nature of the blog (since I've seen several of you post questionable info when it's slamming other cruise lines).

Do I think he deserves a free cruise? Don't know and don't care, that doesn't change the fact that DCL handled this poorly.

 

[justmestace]

Why? Let it go. This is the DIS. You will find DCL apologists. There are 2 reasons for that. 1. People love the product, and people tend to defend what they love even if they look foolish doing so. 2. People ignore certain things because they want to feel good about what they spend $1000's on. But, let's be honest. You are just as bad as the apologists. It seems you have an axe to grind because of your experience. You feel a certain way, others feel differently........No big deal.

By the way, you didn't answer my question about different types of metal.
The ornamental iron business that I own sells all kinds of materials....I'm curious as to what you meant.

 

[MrsScooby]

I don't think anyone is saying that the father should not have been worried during the 45 minutes- or that he is an evil villain. I think he was justified in being afraid, even panicking. I'll even say that the CMs will need re-training in how they inform parents (I have no issue with them being calm- there are other kids in those clubs that probably don't need panicked CMs.)

However, I think the request for a refund and the post as presented by the Consumerist are a bit much. On the dad's blog, the dad details the meeting he had with the Cruise Director, and the responses from the Cruise Director seemed entirely reasonable. I think there's also the issue of the dad stating that the bracelets are GPS devices- his misunderstanding of their capabilities may have unintentionally led to miscommunication about how much the CMs could have done.

Honestly, I wish I had all this information prior to booking as this is not the way it was marketed. I had high expectations for this upcoming trip. We went on a non disney cruise a Few years ago when our oldest was 4 and the kids club was divided into smaller age groups and I felt that the level of supervision was exceptional. As an attorney, I am surprised that Disney would assume the potential liability risk inherent in the relaxed childcare environment described on here. I can only imagine that any incidents that have occurred (as they are bound to occur in such an environment) are silenced by means of settlements and NDAs.

You'll understand the reactions on this thread better when you get on board.
I've been on several DCL cruises and with the exception of one cast member on our first cruise all the cast members have been wonderful, friendly and helpful on every cruise.
The kids clubs on the Dream and Fantasy are amazing, but not for eveyone. There is no one size fits all and there will always be someone who won't like it.
If you are not feeling comfortable with leaving your child in the kids club alone, then you could always stay with them while they play
or keep them with you at all times. There are cruisers who do that because that is what works for them.

 

[justmestace]

Goodness, the DCL cheerleaders are out in full force today!

When this child was discovered missing AND his arm band wasn't working, that club should have been on lockdown until he was located. PERIOD! I cannot believe that this wasn't treated as a missing child and a special team dispatched to find him quickly, while walking the parents through the process. What in the heck is DCL protocol for a missing child? If it's a "code blue" or whatever, that child's face should have been broadcast to every CM on that ship, IMMEDIATELY!

Would this have been completely necessary if he was "missing" in the club but they got a readout on his armband showing him there somewhere? No. But that wasn't the case and all of you know it.

Stacey is right....if this had been another cruise line....heaven forbid, Carnival.....you same cheerleaders would already have them hanging from the rafters and NOT ONCE would you have mentioned the questionable nature of the blog (since I've seen several of you post questionable info when it's slamming other cruise lines).

Do I think he deserves a free cruise? Don't know and don't care, that doesn't change the fact that DCL handled this poorly.

It's okay.
Maybe if a few more of them ended up with three broken ribs and a sprained wrist because of CM carelessness, and then get lied to on top of it, maybe they'll see things differently.

But I knew better than to come tell my story when it happened 2 years ago, because I knew no one would believe me. Or care.

 

[tinkerone]

You weren't slow on the uptake, at this point, it would take all day to read the whole thing.

I think that the dad wouldn't have even blogged about it....or maybe not been AS upset in his blog, if they'd had the Captain stop by on his wife's birthday like they said they would, or if they'd shown a little more compassion. At least, that's what I take away from it all.

Like I said in my very first post on here, when I had my accident (caused by a careless CM) I fully trusted the cruise line (and it doesn't matter AT ALL whether it was Disney or not)...I fully trusted the CM's onboard when they told me that the people shoreside would work with me to give me some kind of compensation. Further medical bills at home, whatever.
And it was the cruise director, the hotel director and the head of security onboard, who ALL told me the same thing. I love DCL...obviously, since I'm going to take cruise number 13 (or is it 14?) next year. I BELIEVED them when they said they'd take care of me. I honestly thought I had a reasonably close friendship with the CD onboard.
And I was devastated when I got home and the shoreside person told me "TOUGH LUCK TOOTS".

I did not post the story on here...what happened to me.....and I don't have a blog, so I didn't post it online anywhere. I've only recently mentioned it because it backs up a few things that people don't seem to understand....and maybe it will help someone in the future.

But I have to say, I DO believe this dad, because of what happened to me. And I totally understand how frustrated he is about the fact that while they basically patronized him onboard with promises of compensation once back home, he didn't even get an apology, or the acknowlegement that there might have been a malfunction of the bracelet, or the reassurance that they'd do their best to "fix" the problem. He was simpy shooed away like an annoying fly.
I've been there. I know that feeling. And it makes no difference what cruise line it is. I said that from the start.

But then everyone comes along not believing, calling the man greedy, saying he's lying or over-reacting....and it makes me upset, because if it did happen on one of the other cruise lines, there'd be very few DISers who would doubt the story. THAT'S the part that upsets me.

if that was his big worry and that would have solved it then I can't take it seriously. all it would take to make it better is a happy birthday to his wife by the captain?? if that were me and I was as upset as he and his wife were supposed to be, my children would not have left my side for the rest of the trip. apparently dinner out was the thing, so how bad could it have been, really?
yes I have seen threads that do not crucify other cruise lines, that actually praise them. no, I would not have felt different if it was another cruise line this happened on. yes I have lost a child and felt that horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach. no, I would not have put blame on the cm's. yes I would want them to check into why the braclet did not do what it should have.
I feel that what he requested as compensation was out of line. to me, he lost maybe a few hours at best, where he could say that bit of the vacation was ruined. just by posting that he went out for dinner kind of shows that he lost no more time thinking about it till he got home.
jmo but that's how I see it.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

By the way, you didn't answer my question about different types of metal.
The ornamental iron business that I own sells all kinds of materials....I'm curious as to what you meant.

My point was just as I stated. I don't know, nor care if the chairs blocked the signal. But, I don't believe the walls and chairs are the same type of metals. And since some metals shield frequencies differently than others, the comparison wasn't apples to apples. I am not a metal expert. I just made an observation.

 

[ilovetexas]

It's okay.
Maybe if a few more of them ended up with three broken ribs and a sprained wrist because of CM carelessness, and then get lied to on top of it, maybe they'll see things differently.

But I knew better than to come tell my story when it happened 2 years ago, because I knew no one would believe me. Or care.

Most of what you read about on the DIS is that Disney is so great with kids, so concerned about safety, goes above and beyond, etc. and that is why so many people will ONLY sail them. They failed miserably here. How can they NOT know where a 3 year old, entrusted to their care, is for 45 minutes that we know of. How long had the kid been MIA before dad came looking for him?

Seriously, is this the kind of "great with kids, concerned about safety, above and beyond" service that everyone keeps talking about? Or have they conveniently forgotten?

 

[bumbershoot]

Well, first, the dad's wrong, the bands don't tell you where on the ship or even in the clubs a child is, they only tell you if the child has been checked into the club or not, there's no GPS chip in the band at all.

Each time we checked DS out they were able to tell us if he was in the Club or the Lab, and they were right each time. There is some level of monitoring with the bands while in the club and lab.

And of course they're going to tell the truth! Why is it that the father and the website can be lying or not believable, but DISNEY is ALWAYS right, and ALWAYS telling the truth????

Disney, with its lawyers, is not going to tell an untruth that could be proven wrong.

Why was the parent allowed to roam through the club looking for his kid for so long since the policy was changed in December 2011?

I don't know what policy and how it was changed, but when you pick up your child, you are sent into the club/lab and you, alone, go find him/her.

And if he could go as many places on the ship as he went before finding out, 45 minutes after it all started, that his child was there, he wasn't looking for very long in the club and lab.

I sounds like there was quite a bit of panicking going on (understandable). The father states that the mother was unconsoleable, yet wanted someone to console her. He rushed to the gangway, when it was more likely the child was still in the club since he hadn't been checked out. I understand the panic. Been there. But the system did work and it would have been more helpful if both the mother and father had looked through the lab/club rather than running to other places.

Nancy

Absolutely. If the mom was the weak link, the dad needed to be STRONG. And strength means realizing that disney (especially disney) has strong policies in place for finding lost children, will DO those things, won't necessarily tell you all of them (what if you are a parent AND a creep who is getting info for the future? exactly how and what they will do isn't our business), and will help you. Strength means helping, not hindering. Not running all over the place, not questioning people, not being hysterical, not yelling at people and making assumptions, not going wild. It means allowing the CMs to do their jobs.

Maybe next time the mom will be able to hold it together, and she can be the strong one, while her husband goes bananas.

Alternately, the DCL staff could have been trained in responding in a calm manner that wouldn't escalate the level of distress. We don't know.

I think we know that Disney has policies in place for missing children, and that one of the policies wouldn't be "freak out and scare everyone even more".

Yes, the wristband tells where they are IN the club/lab. Every time we picked up our DDs they would tell us something like, "XX is in the lab, and the other two are in the club."

Reading the father's account makes me question even more...and not because it happened on DCL. First of all, the father "specializes in social media marketing, content marketing, and viral content creation."

What a coincidence that this should happen to a person with such a job...

This is the case on the Dream & Fantasy, but not the Wonder & Magic. The club and lab are across the atrium opening from each other and CMs have to take kids who can't sign themselves in/out from one area to the other.

Good to know!

Is it not true that if this had happened on another cruise line other than Disney, most of the people who have posted would have said this family should have a FULL REFUND and then some....along with maybe firing the club CM's and any number of other things????

Everyone would be saying "I'll NEVER cruise with them." Or "I won't LET my family and friends cruise with them".......

It's not true for me.

I just read the account of the incident on his blog. Wow he over reacted big time. Running all over the ship freaking out at the staff. While I am sure it was upsetting it doesn't sound like he was helping the situation at all.
....

They managed to go out to dinner at Palo's the next day presumably without the child. They couldn't have been that traumatized. Did they put the child back in the club while they were at dinner

I don't think he was helping, either. And how interesting that the cruise was so ruined, but they were able to leave the toddler and baby with someone (maybe they left them with the friend) to have a grownup dinner.

While I would agree with you, the article does not state where the child was found… Only the DCL statement does, if there was discrepancy where the child was found, then I would look into it… I this case the article omitted crucial material and there is no fault on DCL's part.

Just in case you didn't see, the dad's blog says "I went inside and they told me that my son had crawled into a ‘tunnel’ of stacked chairs and fell asleep..."

Amber Alerts are for confirmed abductions and allow for coordination between the public and police system- this is apples and oranges.

Exactly. For the Amber alerts it has already been verified that the child truly IS missing, they aren't just hiding or sleeping in a hidden spot.

You joined the DIS in February of this year.

You're right, there was ONE thread in the last week that was very positive toward someone seeking advice about another cruise line.

That is the first time in the whole 11 years that I've been on the DIS, that I've seen a thread like that stay pleasant.

I've seen, and been part of, threads touting other lines. Maybe we're just reading different threads.

I can't imagine that they have metal chairs in there. I would think for safety and cleanliness concerns, they'd be plastic.
If the seas were rocky and chairs started tipping or falling around, kids could be hurt really badly with metal chairs.

Metal LEGS. Not metal chairs.

Alas my in-house expert on if a stack of metal-legged chairs could cause a problem with the band is on a plane on his way to Amsterdam right now, but it does seem possible. The child's band supposedly read as "unreadable", he happened to be found under a bunch of stacked chairs...1+1 could very well be 2 here.

I think this post by the dad tell it all.

I remember thinking it was a bit of a hassle to send a parent in alone to wander around and try to find their kid. I began to get a little annoyed as I searched.

Wow.

This. The issue isn't that the kid turned up okay, apparently in the kid's club. The issue is that the parents went to pick up a 3 year old left in DCL's care, and the CMs had no idea where the kid was for 45 minutes.

It sounds like some of this panic on dad's part could have been avoided if a CM had said with certainty that there was no way the kid could have gotten out of the club. But it sounds like the CMs thought the kid COULD have gotten out of the club, and that's the impression dad got, too. How is dad supposed to know how fool-proof the system is, if even the CMs are worried the kid got out? If even the CMs weren't sure if that was possible, I'm not sure how everyone on here is so confident that it couldn't happen and that the system "worked." A ship-wide alert went out looking for the kid.

I get the feeling that the DAD didn't know where the child was for 45 minutes, but that the child was found before that 45 minutes was up. If dad had kept his rear in the club/lab, lowered his level of annoyance at having to go in search of his child (which I think is a good policy, personally), and had truly searched, he might have found him well within that time.

My 10 year old cousin stood at the gates of the club on the Dream TRYING to get out for about 15 minutes and never even came close to being successful. We couldn't sign him out and his mom, dad, and grandma were unreachable or having to wake up his sister to get out to get him (he did not have permission to leave on his own), so we hung out outside the gates while he was inside, trying the gates every so often. Apart from the chaos and lack of signs telling you where to go when you're picking up and dropping off, just seeing their system gave me confidence that no one, especially not a little 3 year old who couldn't vault over the gates like my cousin probably thought about doing, could get out of there accidentally.

I have been lurking for a couple months on here in anticipation of our cruise on the Fantasy next month. I am so shocked by the responses on this thread that it pushed me into actually joining and commenting.

I am surprised at how many posters think the father overreacted or that he should be embarrassed at his behavior. On my cruise next month, I, too, will be traveling with a 3 y.o. And it has always been my plan to leave him and my 6 y.o. In the kids club occasionally. Perhaps I am unreasonable, but if I leave my very young child in the care if someone else I expect them to know where my child is AT ALL TIMES. Despite the fact that in his case the child was found safely, we seem to be missing the fact that for 45 minutes the people who were assigned to his care had absolutely no clue where this child was. That, in my opinion, is unacceptable and I am sure that if this were a daycare in any given town the relevant day care licensing board would take issue with "misplacing" a child.

A 3 year old needs significantly more supervision than an 11 year old and adequate provisions need to be made for that fact. At the very minimum the counselors should be taking regular attendance at regular intervals of the children that are in their care. If my child were missing for 45 minutes (specifically if I have entrusted their care to a childcare service) those 45 minutes would be the most horrific of my entire life. I would be thrilled that my child was safe but I would be out for blood. That the child was found safe was no credit to the counselors as they had no idea where he/she was.

That's not the level of care to expect.

As an attorney, I am surprised that Disney would assume the potential liability risk inherent in the relaxed childcare environment described on here. I can only imagine that any incidents that have occurred (as they are bound to occur in such an environment) are silenced by means of settlements and NDAs.

But as an attorney, surely you know about disney's attorneys, and how they aren't going to let something stay in place that has lots of problems. I bet they're covered.

Goodness, the DCL cheerleaders are out in full force today!

When this child was discovered missing AND his arm band wasn't working, that club should have been on lockdown until he was located. PERIOD! I cannot believe that this wasn't treated as a missing child and a special team dispatched to find him quickly, while walking the parents through the process. What in the heck is DCL protocol for a missing child? If it's a "code blue" or whatever, that child's face should have been broadcast to every CM on that ship, IMMEDIATELY!

Would this have been completely necessary if he was "missing" in the club but they got a readout on his armband showing him there somewhere? No. But that wasn't the case and all of you know it.

How do you know it wasn't locked down? How do you know a "special team" wasn't dispatched (dispatched where? the place his dad left instead of searched thoroughly?)? How do you know it wasn't broadcast to the CMs?

 

[EPCOTatNight]

If I had an ax to grind, I would have never cruised with them again. But I have, and I have one more scheduled.

Also, if I had an ax to grind, I would have blogged and posted all over everywhere. But I didn't.

If I had an ax to grind, I would have posted about it as soon as I got back home. But I didn't.

It was 2 years before I even mentioned what happened to me, and very few people have even heard the whole story, and I only mentioned it when I did because it related to whatever the topic was. And I think the couple of times I mentioned it was because people were being told while they were still onboard that the "nice friendly people shoreside" would help them. And they don't.


I only have an ax to grind with people who cannot see that things happen all the time, all over...even on, or at, (gasp!) Disney.
Rather than even halfway admit that yes, something could happen on DCL, it just seems that there's more and more and more defending and trying to make up excuses or blaming someone else. It's just sad. So I guess it boils down to the fact that I don't have any ax to grind against Disney. It's close-minded people who I have trouble tolerating.

So, are you going to post about them "Everywhere"?

Seriously, why does it matter if random strangers online believe you or another random strangers story? I am a minority and read some truly horrible things online about people like me. But, I've learned to ignore it or not read it at all. It doesnt bother me anymore. Also, I don't believe a weeklong Disney Cruise is worth $5000 for 3 people, but obviously there are a lot of people that do. I go to WDW often, and am going on my 3rd cruise in May. I love Disney, but not enough to go to WDW without a significant discount. The same with DCL. My point is there are a lot of times you will be in the minority, so just accept that. Like I tell my son, "If you're willing to stand for something, be willing to stand alone."

 

[KappaSigHero]

Just a call for reasonable discourse-


Calling other posters names because they respectfully provide rebuttals to criticism of a business is JUST AS BAD as those who blindly support a business despite identified areas of concern.

All opinions here are valid, and many based on personal experience. The positive is that new cruisers will be well-prepared in the event of issues like this.

 

[MrsScooby]

Most of what you read about on the DIS is that Disney is so great with kids, so concerned about safety, goes above and beyond, etc. and that is why so many people will ONLY sail them. They failed miserably here. How can they NOT know where a 3 year old, entrusted to their care, is for 45 minutes that we know of. How long had the kid been MIA before dad came looking for him?

Seriously, is this the kind of "great with kids, concerned about safety, above and beyond" service that everyone keeps talking about? Or have they conveniently forgotten?

My personal experience has been that yes DCL is great with kids. I have very fond memories of the CMs remembering my kid's names and calling out to say hi to them as we went by.
Our stateroom CM took the time to show my DD how to make a towel animal one evening. Our experiences, with one rare exception, have been wonderful.

This is why I find it hard to believe that ALL the CMs in the kids club acted like they did not care when this Dad's son turned up missing.
I consider this occurence of a missing child a fluke. The kid was in the club and the CMs stumped because they could not figure out how they could not find him. From what has been relayed, DCL is considering changing the lighting in the clubs, tallking to the CMs present about the perceived lack of compassion toward the Mom and checking out the wristbands to see if and why there was a malfunction. That sounds like they do care and are trying to make sure there is not a repeat of this happening.

If the kid had been found outside the club or if he had gotten hurt I would be more concerned and expect more from DCL.

 

[ilovetexas]

My personal experience has been that yes DCL is great with kids. I have very fond memories of the CMs remembering my kid's names and calling out to say hi to them as we went by.
Our stateroom CM took the time to show my DD how to make a towel animal one evening. Our experiences, with one rare exception, have been wonderful.

This is why I find it hard to believe that ALL the CMs in the kids club acted like they did not care when this Dad's son turned up missing.
I consider this occurence of a missing child a fluke. The kid was in the club and the CMs stumped because they could not figure out how they could not find him. From what has been relayed, DCL is considering changing the lighting in the clubs, tallking to the CMs present about the perceived lack of compassion toward the Mom and checking out the wristbands to see if and why there was a malfunction. That sounds like they do care and are trying to make sure there is not a repeat of this happening.

If the kid had been found outside the club or if he had gotten hurt I would be more concerned and expect more from DCL.

Our CM on the Wonder in January of 2010 was horrible when my children got sick, but that's a story for another time.

I couldn't care less about compassion for Mom (well, I do but that isn't what really concerns me), what mystifies me is that the CMs were "stumped" about why they couldn't find him. That should have lasted about 2 minutes before alarm bells sounded (figuratively speaking). These are kids we're talking about and they do tend to wander off into places they shouldn't go and 3 year olds do crawl into corners and go to sleep; why in heaven's name don't those CMs know every nook and cranny of the spaces they are assigned to?!?!?

Plus, again, why didn't they know where that child was for over an hour? That club ranges in age from 3-12; it isn't outside the realm of possibility that an older child could have hurt a younger child and "hidden" them in an corner somewhere. Horrible thought, but let's face it, we don't have rules/regulations/policies/procedures to protect us from the good stuff.

 

[neffernie]

My point was just as I stated. I don't know, nor care if the chairs blocked the signal. But, I don't believe the walls and chairs are the same type of metals. And since some metals shield frequencies differently than others, the comparison wasn't apples to apples. I am not a metal expert. I just made an observation.

Conductive metal such as aluminum which is lightweight and used in many stacking chairs could create what is known as a faraday cage which can block signals such as rfid or cell phones. Think of an elevator where you cant get a signal or those wire mesh purses that are supposed to block theives from skimming your credit cards.

We don't know that this happened but it is entirely in the realm of possibilty.