Zero tolerance or Zero common sense...

[leighe]

Schools are in a no win situation. I agree that in the op's example that this was certainly over the top. But in your example, if they had done nothing and it was a hazzardous spill, people would be screaming their heads off that the school didn't follow procedures.

Exactly. It's unfortunate but in our law-suit crazy society no-tolerance policies are necessary in a school environment.

 

[yeartolate]

That is true, which further demonstrates that EVERYONE is over the top and has no common sense.

I agree, but it strted with whining and lawsuit happy parents. If you "fixed" them, the schools wouldn't overreact.

 

[Charade]

Zero tolerance policies weren't created out of nowhere,

They were made because parent after parent tries to get junior out of trouble they so richly deserve. "Well, so and so does something similar and gets away with it....."


I feel bad for the schools. If they try to enforce a "fair rule" properly, they have parents trying to get their precious out of trouble. The teachers and principals end up spending too much time explaining why are "singling out" precious. SO BAM. Zero tolerance.

Parents need to grownup, and maybe some of these zero tolerance policies would go away.

Ok, so if we're stuck with "zero tolerance", then the consequences are too severe IMO and/or inappropriate based on age. If a 5 year old has a bullet in his pocket and comes to the teacher and then the principal to notify them of it, he shouldn't get a 5 day suspension. *That* is an OVERreaction.

The scenario you put forth ""Well, so and so does something similar and gets away with it....." is a direct reflection of how our current judicial system works. Not everyone who commits crime "A" gets punishment "1". Many times there are mitigating circumstances.

 

[eclectics]

When I was a kid, a mercury thermometer broke in my mouth. I just spit out the mercury.

Ah...So that's why you're mad as a hatter!

JUST KIDDING! Sorry John, couldn't resist!

Back to your thread, I say it was a lack of common sense all around. Everyone overreacted.

 

[jodifla]

Ok, so if we're stuck with "zero tolerance", then the consequences are too severe IMO and/or inappropriate based on age. If a 5 year old has a bullet in his pocket and comes to the teacher and then the principal to notify them of it, he shouldn't get a 5 day suspension. *That* is an OVERreaction.

The scenario you put forth ""Well, so and so does something similar and gets away with it....." is a direct reflection of how our current judicial system works. Not everyone who commits crime "A" gets punishment "1". Many times there are mitigating circumstances.

Wow! ITA!

One of the few times we're on the same page.....

 

[fan_of_small_world]

I completely agree that a five-day suspension for a five-year-old is was over the top, especially considering that he did the right thing in giving it to his mom. Zero tolerance has gone way too far in many ways.

However, I also think the mom and dad seriously lack some common sense, too. I don't really think a 5-year-old should be carrying around a bullet anyway, hunting trip or not. JMHO.

 

[DancingBear]

When I was a kid, a mercury thermometer broke in my mouth.

Well, that explains a lot.

 

[RitaZ.]

I think I see what you're saying - that the guidelines should be changed to allow the principal to choose among options, one of which is common sense?

No, I'm not saying that. It was just a statement on how it works. Zero Tolerance doesn't involve common sense.

Should these guidelines be modified? Maybe. Are these stories that we hear about totally ridiculous? Absolutely!

 

[KristinBelle]

Zero common sense. Nobody was hiding anything. The lesson learned here?
Be a sneak!

Yep.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

This is a case of zero common sense, and the Principal made the wrong decision. The concept of zero tolerance needs to be addressed, not all situations are equal.

 

[chobie]

I hate those policies too, but I think the liablity insurance carriers for the school districts might be behind some of the policies.

 

[eclectics]

I hate those policies too, but I think the liablity insurance carriers for the school districts might be behind some of the policies.

That's a very good point. Like most things today, just follow the money.

 

[Becky2005]

Zero common sense. Nobody was hiding anything. The lesson learned here?
Be a sneak!

I actually think a lot of the zero tolerance stuff really DOES teach that.

A. Let's see if I find something that I accidently have on me that I'm not supposed to have, if I actually TELL a teacher then I'll get in trouble.

B. If I keep my mouth shut, nobody will probably notice and I won't get in any trouble.

Now a grade schooler is probably going to automatically do A because they are always told to "tell a teacher" for any problems. However, after that they will learn that isn't always a good idea because you will get punished.

That is the one nice thing about our school, we don't have a zero tolerance policy, it's done on a case by case basis. At least several years ago that is how it was done because I went to a parent workshop on violence in the schools, etc... and that is what our Principal said (this was elementary), she liked this approach much better because you don't have Kindergarteners getting expelled for things that people go for. Age, intent all that stuff is taken into consideration.

Now Middle School & High School are probably different rules, I just know that's the policy of our grade school.

There is still a sliver of common sense left in our neck of the woods.

 

[DISUNC]

Sounds like the kid is the only one with common sense in this story!

OT ..... A 5 year old on a HUNTING TRIP???

 

[monsterkitty]

First, I agree the punishment was over the top.

However, let's look at the zero-tolerance rules. Who made the rules? Who decides the length of punishment?

In my state the state lawmakers made our zero-tolerance policy. The same law makers told us what the punishment would be for each rule infraction. I'm sure that this is not the only state that has done this.

See, the schools get blamed for having "no common sense," but yet the school has to enforce the laws that the state regulates. The principals I know would use common sense if they were allowed to, but they aren't so they catch the flack.

I know a principal who used common sense when dealing with a child who had accidently taken his mother's lunch to school. The lunch contained a, gasp, butter knife. The boy gave it to the principal and explained what happened. The boy was given a thanks and be more careful next time. The principal was written up for not following the law regarding weapons in schools.

If you don't like the rules, which are probably laws in this case, research who made the rules and what can be done to change them. If you do nothing but complain about them on a message board then you really aren't doing anything to fix the problem.

Oh, and the mercury spill with HazMat coming into clean up the mess, that is an OSHA requirement. Once again a school follows a policy not set by the district but yet the school catches the flack.

 

[fan_of_small_world]

OT ..... A 5 year old on a HUNTING TRIP???

That was my thought too.

 

[oxfordcircus]

I hate those policies too, but I think the liablity insurance carriers for the school districts might be behind some of the policies.

If that's the case, then maybe they'll change. The liability carriers get to pay the lawyers' fees to defend lawsuits over such nonsense. This has to be a violation of due process or equal protection or something - maybe cruel and unusual punishment? I know school boards get sued over blind application of zero tolerance. Yet zero tolerance doesn't prevent school shootings - kids who want to kill other kids aren't worried about a 5 day suspension.

 

[FayeW]

Zero tolerance policies weren't created out of nowhere,

THey were made because parentafter parent triesto get junior out of trouble they so richly deserve. "Well, so and so does something similar and gets away with it....."


I feel bad for the schools. If they try to enforcea "fair rule" properly, they have parents trying to get their precious out of trouble. The teachers and prinicipals end up spending too much time explaining why are "singling out" precious. SO BAM. Zero tolerance.

Parents need to grownup, and maybe some of these zero tolerance policies would go away.

I disagree. I think the zero tolerance policies were created to absolve the school administration of the responsibility of having to use common sense and make decisions. Now, they look in the rule book and dole out the appropriate (or inappropriate, in many cases) punishment. They can throw up their hands and sigh about how they had no choice. The problem is that the people who make the rules are apparently not the same people who have to administer them. That is where the fundamental problem lies. The buck has to stop somewhere.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

See, the schools get blamed for having "no common sense," but yet the school has to enforce the laws that the state regulates. The principals I know would use common sense if they were allowed to, but they aren't so they catch the flack.

I know a principal who used common sense when dealing with a child who had accidently taken his mother's lunch to school. The lunch contained a, gasp, butter knife. The boy gave it to the principal and explained what happened. The boy was given a thanks and be more careful next time. The principal was written up for not following the law regarding weapons in schools.

If you don't like the rules, which are probably laws in this case, research who made the rules and what can be done to change them. If you do nothing but complain about them on a message board then you really aren't doing anything to fix the problem.

Oh, and the mercury spill with HazMat coming into clean up the mess, that is an OSHA requirement. Once again a school follows a policy not set by the district but yet th

well said!

 

[DawnCt1]

Oh, and the mercury spill with HazMat coming into clean up the mess, that is an OSHA requirement. Once again a school follows a policy not set by the district but yet the school catches the flack.

HazMat I understand. Putting the entire school in LOCK DOWN, which is what one would do if there were an assailant lurking about? Over the top. Restricting access to the spill would have been enough.