You (And George Bush) Should Read This

[bsnyder]

Putting aside the arguments as to why folks think this way, I think this man just seems to polarize hatred. But so did President Clinton. I can't recall seeing this much hatred that people have had for these last two Presidents than any other past President in my memory, even Nixon. Unless you want to count Dawn's love for President Carter .

Does this mean you're agreeing with my assessment, or not?

 

[MossMan]

Things are by no means perfect, nor are they a complete disaster. Why is that so hard to admit?

My point exactly. Why IS IT so hard to admit? If my satire is sometimes "extreme", it is only because the people I would like to reach are so impossibly obtuse when it comes to admitting mistakes by this administration.

Frankly, I mostly don't care what liberals think about Bush. They're going to oppose him no matter what he does while in office. I do care deeply, though, what conservatives think. Look around, we are going to go down badly in the next election. The distrust this President is engendering is becoming quite intense. And it is going to affect the ability of conservatives to govern nationwide. That is what is at stake. Yet so many Republicans would rather hold on to their support for Bush than admit just how bad a president he is.

Look, when our military leaders start openly calling for the resignation of the Secretary of Defense IN A TIME OF WAR, you know something is very wrong. This is not a normal state of affairs. This doesn't happen to every President. These Generals do not have a vested interest in the defeat of the Republican party. In fact the opposite is almost certainly true. Yet they feel compelled to offer their opinions. The Republican party has a long history of showing respect for our military leaders. So it is with some distress that I see Republicans argue that these opinions by our Military Leaders don't matter.

And I'm not supposed to point out that those Republicans who would make such an arguement don't have their heads in the sand? Nope, won't do it BET. Again I will point out to you that the kind of conservative I have respect for is willing to face truths even when they are uncomfortable.

 

[TCPluto]

Look, when our military leaders start openly calling for the resignation of the Secretary of Defense IN A TIME OF WAR, you know something is very wrong.

Not so much.

These military leaders you refer to are retired, right? All they lead is their dog.

I assume you know this and are just spinning for your own opinion.

 

[Charade]

My point exactly. Why IS IT so hard to admit? If my satire is sometimes "extreme", it is only because the people I would like to reach are so impossibly obtuse when it comes to admitting mistakes by this administration.

It's not hard to admit but maybe it's hard for you to see. I've read and heard of a lot of conservatives that are unhappy with some of the things Bush has done. Call it mistakes if it makes you feel any better. Some think he's not tough enough fighting terrorism. One of those would be me.

I think the prescription drug program is a HUGE white elephant. I think Bush's plan addressing ILLEGAL immigration is going the wrong way. But at the end of the day, I think he's done more good than harm. I can live with that.

Ever since 2000 this country has been in a political hissy fit. 2000 is OVER. 2004 is OVER. Nearly every politician is a butt head and only looks to score political points. It's obscene.

 

[MossMan]

Not so much.

These military leaders you refer to are retired, right? All they lead is their dog.

I assume you know this and are just spinning for your own opinion.

From this statement I can only assume you are one of those liberals who pretends to be conservative, then writes dumb inflammatory things on message boards so that people will dislike conservatives.

Keep it up, you are very effective.

 

[bsnyder]

is.

Look, when our military leaders start openly calling for the resignation of the Secretary of Defense IN A TIME OF WAR, you know something is very wrong. This is not a normal state of affairs. This doesn't happen to every President. These Generals do not have a vested interest in the defeat of the Republican party. In fact the opposite is almost certainly true. Yet they feel compelled to offer their opinions. The Republican party has a long history of showing respect for our military leaders. So it is with some distress that I see Republicans argue that these opinions by our Military Leaders don't matter.

It hasn't happened to every President simply because we haven't been at war during every or even most, administrations. But it has happened, and it will probably happen again sometime in the future.

You've explained your long term goal (winning back Conservatives), but I'd be interested in hearing, specifically, what you are asking Repubicans to support? Fire Rumsfeld? Withdraw our troops immediately from Iraq? Impeach President Bush?

 

[eclectics]

Does this mean you're agreeing with my assessment, or not?

No, I disagree, but mostly in the finality tone of your statements. Yes, to say some of you never take Bush to task is wrong. Some do and some don't. Just as wrong as your accusation that we blame everything that is wrong with the country on the President. Again, some do and some don't. And I will add this. For every American that blindly hates, the equal and opposite number blindly supports. Both extremes are wrong. This board has many diverse members. To lump them all in one catagory or another is doing them a diservice. I also think that posters react to a certain post, not neccesarily to the poster. If someone writes something blindly supporting or blaming, the majority of replies you are going to get will most likely be partisan on both sides. This may add to the feeling that everyone is ganging up. Some replies are probably just knee jerk reactions. It's the old "I know I'm right and why can't so and so see that and agree with me!!!" I say unless someone gets totally hateful and obnoxious without provocation, just enjoy listening and sharing your opinion.

 

[Charade]

From this statement I can only assume you are one of those people who pretends to be conservative, then writes dumb inflammatory things on message boards so that people will dislike conservatives.

Keep it up, you are very effective.

as opposed to someone who is a liberal, writes dumb inflammatory things on message boards so that people will dislike liberals???

 

[MossMan]

It's not hard to admit but maybe it's hard for you to see. I've read and heard of a lot of conservatives that are unhappy with some of the things Bush has done. Call it mistakes if it makes you feel any better. Some think he's not tough enough fighting terrorism. One of those would be me.

I think the prescription drug program is a HUGE white elephant. I think Bush's plan addressing ILLEGAL immigration is going the wrong way. But at the end of the day, I think he's done more good than harm. I can live with that.

Ever since 2000 this country has been in a political hissy fit. 2000 is OVER. 2004 is OVER. Nearly every politician is a butt head and only looks to score political points. It's obscene.

So to parapharse what you wrote:

Except for Bush's failures in foreign policy and all the mistakes he's made in his domestic agenda, our President is doing pretty good job.

Lets just say I agree with the premise but have some difficulty with the conclusion.

 

[Charade]

No, I disagree, but mostly in the finality tone of your statements. Yes, to say some of you never take Bush to task is wrong. Some do and some don't. Just as wrong as your accusation that we blame everything that is wrong with the country on the President. Again, some do and some don't. And I will add this. For every American that blindly hates, the equal and opposite number blindly supports. Both extremes are wrong. This board has many diverse members. To lump them all in one catagory or another is doing them a diservice. I also think that posters react to a certain post, not neccesarily to the poster. If someone writes something blindly supporting or blaming, the majority of replies you are going to get will most likely be partisan on both sides. This may add to the feeling that everyone is ganging up. Some replies are probably just knee jerk reactions. It's the old "I know I'm right and why can't so and so see that and agree with me!!!" I say unless someone gets totally hateful and obnoxious without provocation, just enjoy listening and sharing your opinion.

can we just split the difference?

 

[TCPluto]

From this statement I can only assume you are one of those liberals who pretends to be conservative, then writes dumb inflammatory things on message boards so that people will dislike conservatives.

Keep it up, you are very effective.

I thought that was your role, in reverse. You say you are a lifelong republican, than bash everything about this administration.

I think you're the poser.

The statments about Rumsfield are form RETIRED military personnel, not OUR MILITARY LEADERS, as you want to spin. It's a huge distinction.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

So the answers to our fiscal problems from the 3 last Republican posters are:

Joe: poor President Bush is just part of a government machine and won't veto irrational spending bills because that just how government has been for decades...poor us!!

charlie,nj: President Clinton only presented us with a balanced budget, really didn't solve the deficit, so who cares if Bush tanks a surplus...

Bet: Politics is full of hypocracy so what are you gonna do...

I'm sorry, I though the Republicans like to descibe themselves as the "ideas" Party...guess that was some other guys...

Compared to the Dems, all parties are "ideas" parties.

Quite a twist on our words above.

 

[Charade]

So to parapharse what you wrote:

Except for Bush's failures in foreign policy and all the mistakes he's made in his domestic agenda, our President is doing pretty good job.

Lets just say I agree with the premise but have some difficulty with the conclusion.

I think we both can agree that he does have shortcomings. It's the degree and scope of those shortcomings where we part ways.

 

[bsnyder]

I think we both can agree that he does have shortcomings. It's the degree and scope of those shortcomings where we part ways.

I think we also part ways in the inverse, in not giving him credit for anything. MossMan asked me what policies of the President's have been a success, and I named some that I think should be important to ALL conservatives. Yet he won't comment on them.

 

[MossMan]

I thought that was your role, in reverse. You say you are a lifelong republican, than bash everything about this administration.

I think you're the poser.

The statments about Rumsfield are form RETIRED military personnel, not OUR MILITARY LEADERS, as you want to spin. It's a huge distinction.

You don't have a clue Pluto. Which means you just might in fact be a liberal. Just in case you aren't, though, let me explain what is really happening.

The complaints you are hearing, though voiced by recently retired generals, are coming directly from the military establishment itself. You see, in this administration the opinions of our military leaders are not given very much respect.

There are those that think this fact important and there are those that will do anything to ignore this uncomfortable truth.

 

[TCPluto]

MossMan asked me what policies of the President's have been a success, and I named some that I think should be important to ALL conservatives. Yet he won't comment on them.

Do not expect him to respond, it will only detract from his mantra against this administration. He's not interested in a fair discussion at all.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

My point exactly. Why IS IT so hard to admit? If my satire is sometimes "extreme", it is only because the people I would like to reach are so impossibly obtuse when it comes to admitting mistakes by this administration.

Frankly, I mostly don't care what liberals think about Bush. They're going to oppose him no matter what he does while in office. I do care deeply, though, what conservatives think. Look around, we are going to go down badly in the next election. The distrust this President is engendering is becoming quite intense. And it is going to affect the ability of conservatives to govern nationwide. That is what is at stake. Yet so many Republicans would rather hold on to their support for Bush than admit just how bad a president he is.

Look, when our military leaders start openly calling for the resignation of the Secretary of Defense IN A TIME OF WAR, you know something is very wrong. This is not a normal state of affairs. This doesn't happen to every President. These Generals do not have a vested interest in the defeat of the Republican party. In fact the opposite is almost certainly true. Yet they feel compelled to offer their opinions. The Republican party has a long history of showing respect for our military leaders. So it is with some distress that I see Republicans argue that these opinions by our Military Leaders don't matter.

And I'm not supposed to point out that those Republicans who would make such an arguement don't have their heads in the sand? Nope, won't do it BET. Again I will point out to you that the kind of conservative I have respect for is willing to face truths even when they are uncomfortable.

I think the Bush Administration's biggest weakness is communication. The President needs to speak directly to the American people more.

Their biggest strength is their proactive stance against terrorism.

Fiscally, I'd like to see less spending. And I'd like to see both parties work together to improve and/or privatize social security or the opt out option -- without the politics (mostly Dem obstructionism).

 

[TCPluto]

The complaints you are hearing, though voiced by recently retired generals, are coming directly from the military establishment itself. You see, in this administration the opinions of our military leaders are not given very much respect.

Wow! Given your level of personal knowledge on the subject, I'm surprised that you are not violating some rule of secrecy by telling us all of this. Who would have thought that you were so far on the inside here. Or, again, an example of your misguided opinion and spin? Yea, that's my take on it.

These recenlty retired generals have an axe to grind, that's obvious. Being forced out after devoting their life to the militray must have left them very bitter. Why were they forced out? We'll probably never know. Nor should we, I suspect.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Wow! Given your level of personal knowledge on the subject, I'm surprised that you are not violating some rule of secrecy by telling us all of this. Who would have thought that you were so far on the inside here. Or, again, an example of your misguided opinion and spin? Yea, that's my take on it.

These recenlty retired generals have an axe to grind, that's obvious. Being forced out after devoting their life to the militray must have left them very bitter. Why were they forced out? We'll probably never know. Nor should we, I suspect.

Isn't it amazing how important the opinions of generals are to the libs these days. Things have certainly changed since Viet Nam. Next thing you know they'll be having their picture taken with them. I love you general (because you disagree with Rumsfeld).

 

[bsnyder]

Do not expect him to respond, it will only detract from his mantra against this administration. He's not interested in a fair discussion at all.

A fair discussion would be nice, but things aren't always fair. I'd prefer an honest one, and I am pretty sure MossMan is pulling my leg with his "principled conservative who only has the best interests of Repubilcans at heart" routine.