Yet another teacher rant

[Wishing on a star]

I also wanted to mention that if we are not happy with our lawyer, dentist, or anyone else, we can simply choose to go to another.

Not true with teachers. every single family in america has to handle working with their childs teachers every single day, with NO input, NO choice, NO recourse. Basicly, our children are assigned schools, and teachers, good or bad, and we simply have no choice.

Yep, when you take that into consideration, it really is not surprizing that there are a certain number of complaints.

 

[taximomfor4]

Hmmmm...what's up with History teachers?

My DD is in 9th grade this year and, prior to high school, history/social studies was one of her best subjects.

This year, she's got this loser of a teacher. He drones on and on about nothing and then tests them on stuff he never brought up. I happen to believe my DD on this because mostly all of her friends are struggling with him too. It is time for this man to go. I've never seen my DD get so frustrated with an adult.

Today, they were discussing in class their picks for next year. Their choices are AP Euro History or Geography. I guess my DD indicated that she might like to do AP and he told her in front of everyone that she should "rethink that because she needed to be in a sissy class."

Gee, do you live in Ohio? lol. My dh teaches 9th grade history, and is always getting calls from parents saying the same thing...that his tests are NOT on what he lectured about. His lectures are interactive -- the kids are expected to do the reading assignments, and he DOES include questions from the reading assignments. He also assigns questions from the readng, for no credit (but you can use them on the quizzes). He says that maybe 3 kids per class actually do the questions and ace the quizzes. The rest don't. Oh, and for anyone questioning what a kid was told by a teacher, I strongly recommend going WITH YOUR CHILD to a meeting with the teacher, or at least have the child next to you while you talk with the teacher on the phone. It is amazing how the wording changes. Like in ANY communication, the message is not only what the sender said, but also what the receiver heard. Not to say that the comment made to the OPs dd was excusable...but how do we know that there was not nonverbal cues making it a joke? (A POOR joke, I must say.)

I hope your dd can put this behind her and finish out her year. Kids DO sometimes have teachers that they just don't mesh with. It's a valuable skill to learn to deal with them, though, since adults also sometimes have bosses/coworkers that they don't mesh with.

Hope your dd is feeling better...stomach bugs are awfuL!

 

[taximomfor4]

I am totally in support of teachers as I have four of them for sisters, but I gotta tell you-you have to work in another school district. I have two sisters with masters and one who is well on her way. Now, the one is now a school psychologist, so I don't know how their pay rate compares, but my other sister makes well over $75K a year. And I know you all work hard, but let's keep in mind that she still has several weeks off throughout the year and all summer off. I know about all the extra hours--mom was a teacher too--and I know the day doesn't even end when you finally walk out the door, but $75 K for 9 months a year is not bad.

WOW! What state? We are in the wrong one!! DH has his masters, and is at just over 40k per yr. Yep, he has summers off...that is when he takes is CEUs. That we pay for, because he has a passion for teaching (although he will probably burn out -- he is a GOOD teacher).

 

[golfgal]

The second I read your post, I knew that the teacher did this in front of the class instead of speaking to your child privately. That's a shame that your child was embarassed in this manner.

The local paper recently published a sampling of current teacher salaries in my district:

$106,663 - HS Math
$96,543 - Grade 1
$93,425 - HS Science
$92,945 - Special Ed
$92,703 - Special Ed Elementary
$92,703 - Library Media Specialist
$92,383 - Special Ed Elementary

We have 878 teachers. The total salary budget is $53,984,495 which averages to $61,485. There are two internet listings for a Physics and French teacher. The starting salary is $43,000 - $65,000 depending on experience.

If you feel that you're underpaid, move to my district.

It is one thing to pull numbers out of the paper but you need to factor in the cost of living in your area, too. How much does a typical 4 bedroom, 2 bath, two story house cost in your area? Along with these salaries do they post what degrees these teachers have? Also, your math isn't correct. You might have 878 teachers but the salary budget also includes all the support staff, aides, custodians, lunch room people, administrator, etc. That would probably cut about $20K off your average salary.

 

[declansdad]

They are all perfect you know... and you can never question them

This is what I was writing about earlier.

Not true with teachers. every single family in america has to handle working with their childs teachers every single day, with NO input, NO choice, NO recourse. Basicly, our children are assigned schools, and teachers, good or bad, and we simply have no choice.

Yep, when you take that into consideration, it really is not surprizing that there are a certain number of complaints.

If you actually tried to work with teachers and the schools in a productive manner and not an attacking manner, you might get some where.

 

[taximomfor4]

She was vommitting so much that I had to take her to the doctor. He said that as long as there was no accompanying diarhea, she would be fine (TMI, I know, but you asked). About tone; I really can't comment as I wasn't there, but what kind of tone would make the teacher's response appropriate?

Wow. I would, in future, question this. Vomiting nonstop for several days can wreak havoc on your electrolytes. Your body loses stomach acid, and this can upset your pH balance...causing metabolic alkalosis. This starts a whole host of other problems. THe loss of fluid is bad enough, but upsetting the acid-base system as well is bad news. Yes, the body can accomodate up to a point, but without blood tests, they cannot be sure this is sufficient, and it is a temporary fix anyway. This is a public service announcement for anyone else who ends up with a tummy bug in the house!

 

[Minnesota!]

Yep, we're the most selfish people around. I only keep teaching so I can keep drawing my big, fat paychecks.
My brother makes more money bartending 5 nights than I make in a month, with my Master's degree. And yet, I wouldn't trade my job for the world, and neither would any of the other teachers I know. Maybe it's because it's all about us, and we enjoy all the glory that comes along with being a teacher. Maybe we enjoy the elevated societal rank or the fact that, with Masters degrees, the taxpayers still see fit to give us a lower salary then the average grocery store assistant manager. Maybe we enjoy the fact that the whiniest, dumbest, trashiest parent in the world, can march into the school demanding a conference and complaining because little Jimmy, who turned in 2 of his 27 assignments this quarter, got an F. Maybe we like the fact that everyone and his brother feels like he's our boss and knows our business best and can tell us what to do and how to do it.
Or maybe, just maybe, we're actually dedicated PROFESSIONALS who take all of this trash and file it in the "not worth our time" category, because we know that we're darn good at what we do, and we love the kids, and even parents like these aren't going to stand in the way of the education that we know these kids can get. Does that mean we don't have bad days, or days when we're feeling poorly ourselves, or days when we wish we had smaller classes so we could get to know each child the way we want to know them? Heck no, but most of us do our best, and if we didn't, we'd go into another, more lucrative field - take your pick - stripper? factory worker? subway driver?
Grrrr... I don't know you or your daughter's deal or how often she calls in sick or whether she does her makeup work when she's out or whether she's got a meanspirited warlock for a teacher or whether she's got a teacher who has to deal with 80-100 children each day (standard fare for a middle school) and doesn't know or have time to know exactly what was wrong with her.
All I know is that I don't believe comments like the one I quoted above are appropriate, and I absolutely believe that such comments are the reason this country is facing a critical teaching shortage. We have difficult enough working situations as it is, and I invite anyone who thinks otherwise to walk into their nearest school with 50% or greater numbers of kids on free & reduced lunch, and spend a week in a classroom.
And, to answer the OP's question about explaining this attitude, how many of you know 80-100 of your coworkers on such a personal basis that you care deeply about each and every one of them and wonder what is happening when they don't show up to work for a day or two? Unfortunately, crowded schools mean that middle/high school teachers don't have time to develop the relationship with children that elementary school teachers can afford. Sad, believe me, it saddens us, too, but until the taxpayers are willing to fund the school system adequately, it's something we're all having to live with.
Cheers!
Heather W

Heather - this is the BEST post I have seen on the DIS in a LONG time. I respect you teachers. I couldn't do it. I have always said I think teachers should be paid what doctors are paid. I would say in 95% of cases such as the OP - it's the student/parent who has the issue - not the teacher.

 

[Regina]

It is one thing to pull numbers out of the paper but you need to factor in the cost of living in your area, too. How much does a typical 4 bedroom, 2 bath, two story house cost in your area? Along with these salaries do they post what degrees these teachers have? Also, your math isn't correct. You might have 878 teachers but the salary budget also includes all the support staff, aides, custodians, lunch room people, administrator, etc. That would probably cut about $20K off your average salary.

That budget line is solely for the teachers. The paper also listed the salaries of the top administrators:

$193,065 - Superintendent
$151,424 - Deputy Superintendent
$138,754 - Deputy Superintendent
$130,031 - Assistant Superintendent
$126,173 - Secondary Principal
$120,165 - Secondary Principal
$119, 158 - Coordinator
$111,296 - Coordinator
$108,810 - Elementary Principal
$106,960 - Coordinator

The total budget for adminstrators and support staff supervisors is $55,148,386 which averages out at $100,269.

Years ago, I remember when the regional paper published all of the teacher salaries in our district. It was an eye-opener. The salaries were higher for those teachers with advanced degrees and their years of service were another factor which resulted in a higher salary.

The cost of living has risen in our area. Ironically the biggest influx are those moving further north to escape the high taxes in their districts.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

There is a website you can go to that lists the salaries for every Public School teacher and administrator in the state of Illinois.

In our Public School District -- Absolutely miserable test scores and Graduation rates in recent years.. These are some of the top salaries

$206,593 District Superintendent
$142,857 Assistant District Superintendent
140,962 Assistant District Superintendent
$136,263 Assistant District Superintendent
$116,416 High School Principal
$99,572 Middle/Jr. Hi School Teacher
$99,395 Middle/Jr. Hi School Principal
$98,901 Elementary Principal
$98,362 Elementary Teacher
$97,740 Elementary Teacher
$95,577 Middle/Jr. Hi School Teacher
$94,853 Elementary Teacher
$94,030 Elementary Principal
$93,215 High School Teacher

I know most of these people, they have 15 to 20 years experience and a Master's Degrees in Education. The salaries are fairly equal to what the Private Sector in the area pays for that level of education and experience. Further down the list there are LOTS of teachers earning over $70k a year which is a pretty good salary for this area.

New teachers (first year) are hired in at the $25k to $35k range. Some of these are "Provisional Certificate" teachers that are teaching while the District pays not only a salary but also tuition for them to attend College in the Evening to earn their Education Degree.

That is low compared to what other degreed new Graduates might earn in the area (Accounting, Engineering) etc. However, there salaries increased dramatically with 2 to 3 years experience and earning of the Master's Degree -- which for the most part they do not pay for themselves.


The website is http://www.TheChampion.org

 

[jodifla]

To the OP: What the teacher said to your daughter was highly inappropriate, of course. And you know your daughter well enough to know that she was telling the truth. I think the point you can make to your daughter is that sometimes we're sent challenges in our life...and having a teacher like this is one of them.

In all my years of schooling, I really only recall one dreadful teacher. I was in 7th grade, and she just didn't like me. No matter that I was a straight-A student. She marked me down in citizenship, the only avenue she had since my academics were so good. She screamed at me one day in class "You are so hyper" something no one else on the planet has ever called me. She called my parents in for a conference, and basically, they listened politely, and wrote her off. With some teachers, this is all you can do.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Ohhhh lovely... another attack and false accusations.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I think the teachers comment was rude but that is all.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I agree with Wishing on a Star. In a country that practices free market, I will never understand why our school system is so screwed up. I was lucky enough to go to private school, but I heard horror stories from my friends who went to public. I watched a special on 20/20 a few weeks ago. It compaired our system with other countries and showed that we are way behind. There just aren't any choices, unless you can afford to move to better districts or send kids to private schools.

I also agree that if I didn't like someone in another service oriented job, that I would fire them. With teachers you can't do that. Unless some major changes occur soon, our children and our teachers will never get out of this cycle of blaming one another.

 

[declansdad]

I agree with Wishing on a Star. In a country that practices free market, I will never understand why our school system is so screwed up. I was lucky enough to go to private school, but I heard horror stories from my friends who went to public. I watched a special on 20/20 a few weeks ago. It compaired our system with other countries and showed that we are way behind. There just aren't any choices, unless you can afford to move to better districts or send kids to private schools.

I also agree that if I didn't like someone in another service oriented job, that I would fire them. With teachers you can't do that. Unless some major changes occur soon, our children and our teachers will never get out of this cycle of blaming one another.

Blame the ones that need to be blamed but praise the ones that need to be praised.

 

[C.Ann]

Saying that teachers who are unhappy with their pay should move districts is ridiculous. I'm in one of the top paying counties in NC, and I make $34K after 5 years of teaching & a Master's degree. Heather W

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$34,000 after 5 years? My best friends son spent his first year of teaching in NC and was making $42,000..

 

[Marseeya]

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$34,000 after 5 years? My best friends son spent his first year of teaching in NC and was making $42,000..

Talking about salaries is all well and good, but I think it's pretty moot because of demographics, cost of living, and whatnot. Where I live is a very poor area. My town is in the county seat and is the largest school district in the county. Teachers here can look to start at $20,000 (+$200 with a masters degree). Right in the same county in a rural area, the teachers start in the mid $30s. Every district is different even within the same state. The average teacher's salary in the state of PA is around $40K, but you sure don't see that in my town.

Let's face it, not many of us who are going into teaching are doing it for the money. I could have EASILY gone to law school instead and would be making a whole lot more than what I'll be earning as a teacher, but I'm doing education because of the kids and the love of education, as I'm sure most teachers do as well.

While we're talking money, my husband makes an obscene amount more than I ever will and he doesn't even have a bachelor's degree. I've spent 10 years in college and will probably spend the vast majority of my life furthering my education. It's sad that his computer skills are valued so much more than my education (lucky for our family, though).

 

[Skywalker]

I guess I just don't see where the teacher did anything all that bad. People are SO oversensitive today!!! I can remember being in school and I can still name to you the "cranky" teachers I had over the years, especially the one in grade 9 English. He would often chastize students in a manner that people today might find "humiliating" but then people just took it in stride and did better next time. And you know what else? The students that got knocked down a peg or two usually deserved it.

 

[taximomfor4]

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$34,000 after 5 years? My best friends son spent his first year of teaching in NC and was making $42,000..

Geez, in dh's district, with 10 yrs and a Masters is only $46k

 

[C.Ann]

I guess I just don't see where the teacher did anything all that bad. People are SO oversensitive today!!! I can remember being in school and I can still name to you the "cranky" teachers I had over the years, especially the one in grade 9 English. He would often chastize students in a manner that people today might find "humiliating" but then people just took it in stride and did better next time. And you know what else? The students that got knocked down a peg or two usually deserved it.

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I guess it all depends on your view of humiliation.. I don't consider humiliation a good thing - and I have never seen it proven to be a form of "motivation" for anyone - adult or child..

 

[C.Ann]

Geez, in dh's district, with 10 yrs and a Masters is only $46k

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You wouldn't even want to know what his father made (in NY) prior to going into administration.. You would probably faint dead away!!