Yes, I lost it

[tampaguys]

Hey - I like some of the things you had to say over at the other thread and thank you ...but...I don't totally agree with all your points.

I'm gay - but have not attended gay days at WDW so I don’t know what goes on there. But I having attended gay pride days here in Boston - I do know first hand that some gay people like to take it "over the top" and purposely push buttons at that event.
I'm not talking hand holding or even kissing.
(FYI - I'm not too thrilled to see straight couples "going at it" in public)
I just wish some times there was a bit more decorum
and pride in gay pride.

Call me a traitor to the cause if you like but - It’s my opinion.

I don't think you're a traitor, but I do think you're wrong. I think we all agree that "over-the-top" behavior is inappropriate whether it is a gay couple or a straight couple. However, a double standard still exists.

When two straight people go at it hot and heavy in a public place, it is considered a reflection on the morality and judgement of those two people. If two gay people do the same, it is often perceived as a reflection on the morality and judgement of gay people.

Even we, as gay people, sometimes tend to think of it that way...that it says something bad about us. I would argue that it certainly says something bad about those specific people, but I don't think we are doing ourselves a service by suggesting that we be defined by our lowest common denominator. If our emotional response at two gay people getting inappropriate in a public place is different than seeing two straight people do the same, then we are just promulgating another double standard.

 

[NewJersey]

I don't think you're a traitor, but I do think you're wrong. I think we all agree that "over-the-top" behavior is inappropriate whether it is a gay couple or a straight couple. However, a double standard still exists.

When two straight people go at it hot and heavy in a public place, it is considered a reflection on the morality and judgement of those two people. If two gay people do the same, it is often perceived as a reflection on the morality and judgement of gay people.

Even we, as gay people, sometimes tend to think of it that way...that it says something bad about us. I would argue that it certainly says something bad about those specific people, but I don't think we are doing ourselves a service by suggesting that we be defined by our lowest common denominator. If our emotional response at two gay people getting inappropriate in a public place is different than seeing two straight people do the same, then we are just promulgating another double standard.

Write a book sam!!! write a freaking book! you are a GENIUS

 

[tampaguys]

Write a book sam!!! write a freaking book! you are a GENIUS

Not necessary, timmeh. These ideas have been expressed dozens of times by authors WAY more eloquent than I could ever be.

I'd be happy to recommend a reading list.

 

[wallyb]

I don't think you're a traitor, but I do think you're wrong. I think we all agree that "over-the-top" behavior is inappropriate whether it is a gay couple or a straight couple. However, a double standard still exists.

When two straight people go at it hot and heavy in a public place, it is considered a reflection on the morality and judgement of those two people. If two gay people do the same, it is often perceived as a reflection on the morality and judgement of gay people.

Even we, as gay people, sometimes tend to think of it that way...that it says something bad about us. I would argue that it certainly says something bad about those specific people, but I don't think we are doing ourselves a service by suggesting that we be defined by our lowest common denominator. If our emotional response at two gay people getting inappropriate in a public place is different than seeing two straight people do the same, then we are just promulgating another double standard.

Once again - good points.

I don't see how my opinion can be "wrong" though - after all it's my opinion.

All I'm saying is - I have witnessed these gatherings degenerate in to something more overtly base time and time again. And why go there?
We fervently state “what we do in our bedrooms is our own business”. So why do we invite people in. These are public events.

Maybe it's just gay pride here in Boston - but I doubt it from what I've seen on the web of other cites.

Once again I don't know first hand about gay days at WDW - and I’m not holding our committee to a higher standard -
I'm not talking hand holding, hugging, or simple kissing -
and I’m not giving intolerance and narrow-mindedness a “hall pass” here.

 

[Tinkerboy00]

I gotta say.. I feel qualified to comment here, as someone who has been to Gay Days at WDW parks at least 5 times .. most recently in June of 2006 .. I must say I couldn't DISagree with the original article by the "moderator" any more strenuously.

While perhaps I was not in the right place at the right time (over five different visits..) .. I didn't see anything that embarrassed me and I have a very low threshold for that kinda thing. I embarrass easily.

The things that annoyed me more than anything in June of 2006 were :
(in no particular order)

- Motorized Scooter drivers .. driving with impugnity and reckless disregard for their pedestrian counterparts

- Stroller 'brigades' travelling three and four abreast.. taking about 15 feet of horizontal walking space and expecting everyone else to move out of their way... and nipping at heels, running over toes etc.

But THAT is another thread.

Seriously. I saw nothing in June of 2006 that was out of the ordinary. In fact, we kept wondering if we were at the 'wrong park' for Gay Days on a given day because we couldn't really spot any gay folks. We did start seeing them more clearly on Friday and Saturday.

OMG...I agree.

They should start giving people license exams to operate the scooters, and to push strollers.

I get run over by scooters, or cut off by scooters. Pushed over by strollers.

The worse is when the parents let the kids push the strollers and they go crazy running everywhere. And the parents just sit there and laugh.

"Ahh....isn't little Susie so cute and funny pushing the stroller"


Never mind your brat just ran over my foot.

 

[WDWPinCollector]

Considering that Disney makes $$ off these modes of transport, I know it's not going to happen. But what do you think about Disney designating 1 day a year stroller/scooter free?

 

[mamaprincess]

Can I just agree that you handled the situation really well - I don't know that I could have been as polite!

WE've never visited in June - November is 'our' time - but we were stood next to a gay couple in the line for Peter Pan a couple of years ago. These guys were holding hands (as were my DH and I) and my DD (who was 4 at the time) spent ages staring at them. Eventually she asked the one guy "Is he your Handsome Prince?" (She's VERY into Princesses my DD! ) and the guys both laughed and said "Yep". My DD replied "How Lovely!" and then started talking about the Parade we'd just watched. I was SO proud of her - I've always taught her to accept people for who they are and those lessons have obviously paid off. We kept seeing these guys round and about all day, and they always said Hi to my DD.

Later that day we were watching Wishes and who should stand behind us but these guys. My DD was over the moon to see them again and stood with THEM to watch the fireworks instead of with DH and I. The one guy had one of those lightup Mickey toys and (after asking our permission) he gave this to my DD. She was thrilled and when she plays with this at home now, she always says the "Hamdsome Prince" gave it to her!

I tell this story to anyone who's 'scared' of Gay Days or whatever - di this experience scar my daughter for life, or is it one of her favourite memories about WDW.....I'll leave it to you to decide!!!!!

I love this story. You are raising a beautiful child. I wish more people would allow there children to be the beautiful human beings they are instead of constantly brainwashing them with hate.

I'm a mother of 3 girls and I am raising them to love the variety that God created. If we don't teach hate to children, it will end.

 

[PsychNurse]

I've been lurking here for awhile, but reading this thread has motivated me to write my first post. Tampaguys, I am so thankful there are people like you who are so articulate and willing to make your point of view heard. I try, but usually get so angry I can't keep my cool, then no one wants to listen. Tiggernut_Jadie, your story is beautiful. Thank you for doing your part to create change in our society, by raising such a wonderful child.

 

[Steph9072]

My husband and I had made plans to bring our 3 children 2,6 & 11 to WDW. We had planned and saved for a long time before we made our reservations for May 26 - June 2 . Just last month I saw something Gay Days. I will not be changing my plans. I will not be "scheduling" so not to be in the same park. We are going to do our thing and you all do yours. If our paths cross, which I hope they do, say hi. Everyone deserves to go to WDW and have a good time.

You all have a great time!


All Star Music Family Suite 05/2007




Gotta Love our COLTS!!

ME DH DSS 11 DD 6 ds 2

 

[exDS vet]

My husband and I had made plans to bring our 3 children 2,6 & 11 to WDW. We had planned and saved for a long time before we made our reservations for May 26 - June 2 . Just last month I saw something Gay Days. I will not be changing my plans. I will not be "scheduling" so not to be in the same park. We are going to do our thing and you all do yours. If our paths cross, which I hope they do, say hi. Everyone deserves to go to WDW and have a good time.

You are right! Everybody DOES deserve to go to WDW and have a good time. That being said, I am in the major minority here, but I don't think we need to have Gay Days to have fun and be ourselves at WDW or anywhere. I don't flaunt my lifestyle wherever I go. I also don't use PDA's with my partner. But at the same time, we don't hide who, or what we are. I don't care if it's WDW, Hawaii, Vegas or any of the many places we have been to in our 6+ years together.

I think anyone can and should be proud of who they are. I also understand the need for acceptance. But I don't need somebody throwing their viewpoints in my face. I am the first person to speak out if and when I hear anti-gay comments or jokes. But I won't give someone cause to voice their intolorance. I feel sorry for those who hate. But I don't let their ignorance bother me. Nobody in our community should. We should all enjoy life and live in harmony with others. Point out ignorance when we have to, but don't give people reason to compare us to teenagers, cheerleaders, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.

I wish more people would take the high road on this issue, and not give the right, or whoever reason to hate us. For the most part, we are better-off financially, more educated and just plain better people than those who spout off their ignorance. Be happy that you are better. Be proud.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Point out ignorance when we have to, but don't give people reason to compare us to teenagers, cheerleaders, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.

I wish more people would take the high road on this issue, and not give the right, or whoever reason to hate us. For the most part, we are better-off financially, more educated and just plain better people than those who spout off their ignorance. Be happy that you are better. Be proud.

I don't understand how gay people have given anyone reason to compare us to anything. And I don't understand what the "high road" on this issue is supposed to be.

Also, even if it is true that gay people as a group are financially better off and better educated* I have no idea what that has to do with the issues discussed in this thread--double standards for gay people regarding PDAs, stereotyping all gay people as the same, homophobia, etc. Money can't make up for hatred.

This sounds way too much like blaming the victim to me.


* The truth of this common claim is disputed.

From the National Gay and Lesbian Taskforce:

"The stereotype of gay or lesbian couples as ‘DINKS’ (‘dual-income-no-kids’) involves two assumptions," wrote "Income Inflation" author M.V. Lee Badgett, an economist at the University of Massachusetts. "First, that same-sex couples will have higher incomes than married couples, and second, that lesbian and gay men have no children."

Further research on household incomes of same-sex couples by Badgett has demonstrated that heterosexual-couple households and male same-sex-couple households have roughly equal household incomes, while female same-sex couples bring home 18 to 20 percent less income. The economic picture for female same-sex households becomes more grim considering that at least 22 percent of lesbian couples living together have children, as reported by the "Demography" article.

 

[mamaprincess]

For the love of that which made gays and all things!!!

If a gay man was dressed in a tinkerbell outfit, smoking meth in between swigs of a bottle of tequilla while engaged in PDA's of the most blatant variety that has nothing to do with any other gay man. Why should anyone be made to feel ashamed of himself based on what one person does or even a group of persons that have no relation to him other than the fact that they are both gay.

Trust me I know all to well about being judged based on one persons behavior. I'm black and we have flavor flav among others. But one thing I do know is that if anyone thinks they can compare me or my entire race to or judge us by the few high profile fools in my race then they are more of an idiot than Flavor flav and that is an issue all their own. Clearly there are extremes in any group. Anyone with a family knows that.

Those who want to know you will make an effort. Those who want to dismiss you will use any excuse to do it.

I have gone to many a gay pride event with my wonderful, beautiful sister. There are those that are out there celebrating in a very flamboyant way. I look at them like my mothers dreadlocks, it's a statement to everyone looking that I am who I am and I'm not even remotely ashamed plus there are flamboyant members in every group why shouldn't gays have there flamboyant members. There are those that are not at all flamboyant because that is not their personality or way of self expression. There are those that are drunk and high. This happens at any party where there are tons of people this is not a gay thing, this is a drunk and drug user thing. When we go to pride events, we play cards barbecue, catch up with old friends, listen to good music and people watch.

Don't let anyone put their issues and hang ups on you. Don't let anyone make you ashamed or embarassed about who you are. You know who you are. Those who refuse to see you have issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with you.

 

[Viki]

For the love of that which made gays and all things!!!

If a gay man was dressed in a tinkerbell outfit, smoking meth in between swigs of a bottle of tequilla while engaged in PDA's of the most blatant variety that has nothing to do with any other gay man.
.

Wow, who you been hanging out with???

Mike, you been holding back on me, baby!

Or, has Uncle Remus been running around again?

I clearly need some new friends! Oooh, la, la!

 

[Twingle]

For the love of that which made gays and all things!!!

If a gay man was dressed in a tinkerbell outfit, smoking meth in between swigs of a bottle of tequilla while engaged in PDA's of the most blatant variety that has nothing to do with any other gay man. QUOTE]

That made me spit coffee all over my keyboard -

Just wanted to let you know that there are lots of us that are teaching our children to do onto others. All three of our kids realize that you can't choose who you love, and love in and of itself is an amazing thing.

As far as that other thread, the one where the daughter was concerned about her mother freaking out at gay days, I have proof postive that you CAN "teach an old dog new tricks". My dad is a retired military officer, very grunt-grunt, if you know what I mean. We were in Disney last June (in GAY DAYS! and my kids eyeballs were NOT burned out of their heads!), and were waiting for Illuminations to start. There was a couple sitting by the fountains at American Adventure, and my son started talking to them about their pins. Of course, my daughters go everywhere my son goes, and start talking to these nice men about their stuffed animals that they have (that would be my daughters stuffed animals, not the couples!), and these guys were so nice, they started making the animals dance around to the music. Of course, my daughters are then dancing too, and my one LOUD girl, Ella, is asking them to dance with them. Well, one of the guys looks at my dad, who I'll admit is giving this couple the ole' hairy eyeball. And this nice man says "well, WE'RE GAY". Like, is it okay for your kids to dance with us, because of this? And my dad says "LET's ALL BE GAY!" because he wants to show my kids how cool and hip he is to be HAPPY.

I have great pics, and it was a great memory for my kids to have with these new friends they made at Epcot, and to see that their grandpa is just as friendly to same sex couples as he is to hetro couples.

So, just wanted to share, hopefully in the near future there will be LOTS more posts on the DIS about positive stories than the hateful ones.

 

[Tinkerboy00]

My husband and I had made plans to bring our 3 children 2,6 & 11 to WDW. We had planned and saved for a long time before we made our reservations for May 26 - June 2 . Just last month I saw something Gay Days. I will not be changing my plans. I will not be "scheduling" so not to be in the same park. We are going to do our thing and you all do yours. If our paths cross, which I hope they do, say hi. Everyone deserves to go to WDW and have a good time.

You all have a great time!


All Star Music Family Suite 05/2007




Gotta Love our COLTS!!

ME DH DSS 11 DD 6 ds 2

You have a great attitude about it.

My partner and I are professionals, in a committed long term relationship. We usually dont even go to gay bars.

Our idea of fun is strolling through Disney. And we dont hold hands, or kiss or anything like that. Occasionally Ill hold on to him, or rub his back. But we are not obvious about displaying our affection.

I dont want to ruin anyones vacation, and I would hope people would respect others enough to not ruin mine.

 

[mamaprincess]

Wow, who you been hanging out with???

Ted Haggard.

 

[Kellyscrapbooks]

Okay, I admit it...this thread made me go all carnival-ape crazy.

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1324919

If I get banned from the boards for taking the webmaster to task for being a self-hating homophobe, it was lovely knowing you all.

I had to take a moment to seek you out tampaguys.
I saw your post and wanted to take a moment and let you know that you did not go psycho, you were well spoken and eloquent, you made your points clearly and concisely. I'm sorry that ignorance, prejudice and bigotry still run rampant, even here on the DIS.
Not everyone thinks that way, I'm sure you know that, but I could sense your frustration and felt the need to drop you a post of support.

Frankly, I am hopeful that someday there will be no need for there to be "gay days", that love for another human being will be cherished without regards to gender, color, religion or other.

Until then, I know that in my family, that's what we are teaching. Pass it on.

 

[gabbysmom04]

I just can't keep myself off these GAY DAYS threads! I just love to get myself fired up. I want my children to do to WDW for gay days. I want them to see people who love each other, people who are proud of who they are. If I can turn to my DH and kiss him or hold his hand in WDW then everyone else should be able to do that also.

I pray that my kids will grow up knowing that everyone is equal, that everyone on this earth deserves the same respect no matter who they love!

I am so sick of people asking these same stupid questions, if you don't like it don't go. If you have to go they look the other way. Maybe gay people should start some threads about how to deal on straight days!

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

No kidding, right? Eeesh.

Some people don't seem to understand that some of us find public displays of straight affection as unsettling and disturbing as they find gay displays. Quite frankly it makes me a little queasy and I always turn my head away.

 

[hematite153]

I just can't keep myself off these GAY DAYS threads! I just love to get myself fired up. I want my children to do to WDW for gay days. I want them to see people who love each other, people who are proud of who they are. If I can turn to my DH and kiss him or hold his hand in WDW then everyone else should be able to do that also.

I pray that my kids will grow up knowing that everyone is equal, that everyone on this earth deserves the same respect no matter who they love!

I am so sick of people asking these same stupid questions, if you don't like it don't go. If you have to go they look the other way. Maybe gay people should start some threads about how to deal on straight days!

I appreciate your attitude and support. I agree with your basic statement and generally refuse to accept the concept of "straight days". If you and your DH can hold hands, touch and kiss then so can I and my DW. Yes, there are places where I think that any PDA is inappropriate and I think that some straight couples take things too far in public (I mean, do you really need to feel up your girlfriend in the queue for SOARIN'?) but I'm married and I am not prepared to let prejudice deny me those rights. However, after one brief period of responding to the gay days threads, I've learned my lesson and stay away. I get too irritated. Thanks for engaging the battle.