WWYD??? Parenting related...

[LuvLDM]

you should have kept your nose out of it
I don't know what you think you did but it wasn't to help the child, who probably caught H when he got home again cause now the Aunt has to go to court for yelling at the officer.

She didn't get arrested for child abuse unless child welfare came and got the child or they took the child with the police. If the kid and his dad just went home then she is getting charged with something else and now everyone will be mad at the kid.

I don't understand who you think gave you the power to determine everyone should parent as you do?


Forgot to add have you ever seen real child abuse? If you have you will know it and it isn't getting yelled at.

Agreed.
Sorry OP but you sound like a busy body.

 

[walden]

This is exactly what went through my mind as I walked closer to this woman, that she is bullying him and killing his spirit.

I have seen enough parents that have a "bark is bigger than their bite" mentality to keep their children in line, heck my Mom only had to give "the look" but going over board was what I witnessed yesterday.

The woman will have to appear in court and explain her actions that occurred in front of the police and were aimed at the police. She will probably be fine since part of her tirade was that her husband is a sergeant. He was there too and was initially in the camp of "everything was fine, that I should not have jumped in" But after a few minutes apart with her transport to the police station, suddenly they both were singing different tunes. The woman and her husband both agreed that she has a bad temper and that she went over board with correcting her nephew for something that happened 2 days prior.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and of course people have different comfort levels with what they are willing to do in a situation like this but I will admit that I am surprised there are so many people who took the position of "mind my own business." I made it very clear from the first post that this was more than a quick correction out in public but more of a verbal assault that went on for several minutes prior to me speaking up.

I think you absolutely did the right thing given your description of the incident. I might, as a matter of personal caution, have called the police or notified security before I attempted to intervene myself but I almost certainly would have also intervened. I think you know you did the right thing because the woman did end up being arrested, but you must have been shaken up by the attitude of the rest of the people there in blaming you.

I think that we take "minding our own business" way too far these days. It is called "Bystander Syndrome." Someday someone is going to be held criminally responsible for minding their own business when criminal activity or child abuse is occuring right infront of them. If no-one ever wanted to get involved in reporting abusive behaviors and crimes in progress to the proper authorities then the world would be a horrible place.

 

[ols386]

I would be concerned if I witnessed and heard what the op did. I probably wouldn't walk up to the kid and the woman and man who were yelling at him, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to call security. If a parent is disciplining a child and even yelling at a child, that's one thing, if they are cursing at the child, that's verbal abuse.

It's fine to discipline your kids even out in public (except that the woman yelling at the kid wasn't even his mother, from what I gather), but don't do it in a verbally or physically abusive manner.

 

[ols386]

well, if you were being followed around the store by someone who was watching my every move, wouldn't you think that was creepy ?

If I was the one who had been yelling at the kid, I think I would have been so embarrassed that I would have immediately left the store or wherever I was.

 

[horseshowmom]

I'd have called the cops.

I generally consider myself pretty good at telling the difference between "parent disciplining/correcting child for bad public behavior" and "parent killing child's psyche because they are an abusive freak".

This thread brought something back to my mind that I haven't thought about for a long time. My daughter is 23 now, but when she was about 5 or 6, we were on our way to Florida when we stopped at a rest area in south Alabama. When we went in the restroom, there was a woman (I assumed the mother) who was in the face of a little girl about my daughter's age (maybe a little younger). She was screaming at her about having wet her pants.

This screaming continued while we were in the restroom and continued as we left. It was very hostile and demeaning. I was very concerned for the child's welfare and wondered what I should do (and whether if I did say anything it would just make it worse for the child later). I wound up doing nothing (other than giving the woman - who apparently didn't care - several long looks).

I was quiet and upset the rest of the drive to Orlando.

What I saw was uncalled for and should be considered emotional abuse. I certainly didn't help the child in any way. I am a firm believer in disciplining your child, but what I saw was wrong, and it was months before I didn't think about it on a regular basis. I wondered about that little girl's life for a long time...

 

[chloelovesdisney]

This is exactly what went through my mind as I walked closer to this woman, that she is bullying him and killing his spirit.

I have seen enough parents that have a "bark is bigger than their bite" mentality to keep their children in line, heck my Mom only had to give "the look" but going over board was what I witnessed yesterday.

The woman will have to appear in court and explain her actions that occurred in front of the police and were aimed at the police. She will probably be fine since part of her tirade was that her husband is a sergeant. He was there too and was initially in the camp of "everything was fine, that I should not have jumped in" But after a few minutes apart with her transport to the police station, suddenly they both were singing different tunes. The woman and her husband both agreed that she has a bad temper and that she went over board with correcting her nephew for something that happened 2 days prior.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and of course people have different comfort levels with what they are willing to do in a situation like this but I will admit that I am surprised there are so many people who took the position of "mind my own business." I made it very clear from the first post that this was more than a quick correction out in public but more of a verbal assault that went on for several minutes prior to me speaking up.

I am surprised that so many people think it was fine for a woman (not even his parent) to scream and curse in a child's face. She was obviously out of control because she couldn't even calm herself down when the police came as evidenced by her arrest. Sorry, being arrested for out of control behavior is NOT normal. If I was the mom, I would file a restraining order against the aunt. Punishing kids is fine and necessary when they misbehave, screaming and cursing in their face is not. Who screams and curses in a child's face when it isn't even their child? Wow, I really can't believe anyone thinks that's okay. If the child did something wrong, his father should have removed him from the game and taken him home and punished him.

The father should have stepped in on behalf of his son, I feel very badly for that child.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

This thread brought something back to my mind that I haven't thought about for a long time. My daughter is 23 now, but when she was about 5 or 6, we were on our way to Florida when we stopped at a rest area in south Alabama. When we went in the restroom, there was a woman (I assumed the mother) who was in the face of a little girl about my daughter's age (maybe a little younger). She was screaming at her about having wet her pants.

This screaming continued while we were in the restroom and continued as we left. It was very hostile and demeaning. I was very concerned for the child's welfare and wondered what I should do (and whether if I did say anything it would just make it worse for the child later). I wound up doing nothing (other than giving the woman - who apparently didn't care - several long looks).

I was quiet and upset the rest of the drive to Orlando.

What I saw was uncalled for and should be considered emotional abuse. I certainly didn't help the child in any way. I am a firm believer in disciplining your child, but what I saw was wrong, and it was months before I didn't think about it on a regular basis. I wondered about that little girl's life for a long time...

It's hard when something happens suddenly and you aren't prepared for it. I once witnessed a man speak to woman (his wife or girlfriend) in a very nasty way and then push her hard (she stumbled several feet) and then he basically shoved her out of the area. The couple looked to be in their 30's or so, well dressed, well spoken, etc.. I was a teenager and working in a store at the time, and just completely froze. I will never forget the look on the woman's face when it happened, but she just went with him willingly. Now I wish I had thrown something at him, screamed for security, just done something. She just didn't seem up to standing up for herself. I also wonder what happened to that lady.

 

[FireDancer]

I would mind my own business.

^^ This. It isn't my kid so it isn't my responsibility. They weren't beating the kid up (and I don't mean slapping or spanking them) so I would just go about my business.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am surprised that so many people think it was fine for a woman (not even his parent) to scream and curse in a child's face. She was obviously out of control because she couldn't even calm herself down when the police came as evidenced by her arrest. Sorry, being arrested for out of control behavior is NOT normal. If I was the mom, I would file a restraining order against the aunt. Punishing kids is fine and necessary when they misbehave, screaming and cursing in their face is not. Who screams and curses in a child's face when it isn't even their child? Wow, I really can't believe anyone thinks that's okay. If the child did something wrong, his father should have removed him from the game and taken him home and punished him.

The father should have stepped in on behalf of his son, I feel very badly for that child.

I can't speak for the other posters on this thread but as for myself, I do NOT think it was"fine" for a woman to scream in a child's face. I think it is not good for a child to be treated like that and I do wish the father had intervened. However, I still do not believe it is illegal nor is it the kind of thing I get to control about other people's children.

I also do not think it is fine for some kids to eat junk food all the time. It is not healthy for them and their parents shouldn't feed it to them. I think it is very unhealthy for a parent to smoke in the same room/car as their child. I think it is truly bad for a child to encourage a him/her to believe s/he is better than everyone else by constantly praising the child and never discipling. I think little kids can be seriously emotionally scarred by listening to their parents have heated arguments, or by watching too much violent programming on TV. In short, there are LOTS of things that other parents do with and to their children that I think is wrong and at times even pretty harmful.

On the other hand, I am sure there are plenty of things I do in raising my children that other people think are wrong or even harmful.

At the end of the day there are some lines that cannot legally, and should not ever, be crossed (beating a child, not feeding the child, etc) and everything else is just an interpretation by parents/family as to what is okay and what is not and it is not my business to get involved or get the law involved.

Now, I simply cannot see how yelling (even bad words and in the face yelling that goes on for several minutes) with no physical violence and no threat of violence is enough to call the police for abuse (now if you want to call and say she is disturbing the other people at the park and will not quiet down--IF you have asked her to respect other park goers without interjecting your opinions into the childrearing matter--okay fine.

Anyway, the point is that you can disagree with what the aunt and still not think OP should have involved herself or police.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Screaming and berating can be as bad or worse than hitting. I wasn't there so I'll just have to take the OP's word that it rose to the level of needing intervention. She was not even the child's parent, I don't know anyone that would curse at someone else's child much less scream in their face. That lady sounds unstable to me and my guess is that she looked it.

 

[WeCantWait]

OP I'm glad you didn't MYOB. That child was being verbally abused and children that are being abused need somebody to protect them.

To the poster that was called creepy. I wouldn't worry about it. I find it pretty creepy when adults feel the need to scream, curse, intimidate or smack their children.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

OP I'm glad you didn't MYOB. That child was being verbally abused and children that are being abused need somebody to protect them.

To the poster that was called creepy. I wouldn't worry about it. I find it pretty creepy when adults feel the need to scream, curse, intimidate or smack their children.

Agreed.

 

[DMRick]

Wow, I really can't believe anyone thinks that's okay. If the child did something wrong, his father should have removed him from the game and taken him home and punished him.

I didn't say I thought it was OK the boy was being yelled at using curse words. No child should be cursed at (yelled at, well, my kids have been yelled at a time or five). I doubt the woman would have been arrested for that reason. Now, if she was yelling curse words at the police, that may have been what got her arrested. I hope the boy doesn't pay for her being arrested with more than curse words. Unless the police called child services, that child went home with someone in that family. He still wasn't protected, from what I read. Apparently the police didn't think he needed to be.
We have a really rough section in our city. If the kids in that neighborhood were taken away every time their parents screamed and cursed at them, we'd have to bring back our orphanages. There aren't enough people in our city to take them all in. Spend some time outside of a mission that feeds families nightly and just listen to how the poor kids are talked to. It's really sad, but not against the law. The kids would prefer us to not say anything, because they don't want to pay for it later.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Yelling is one thing, screaming and cursing in a child's face is another story. I find it strange that screaming and cursing in the child's face results in nothing, but doing the same to a grown police officer gets her arrested. I feel very badly for that child as I'm sure he is not being treated well or his father would have put a stop to it right away. There's no way of knowing if the police have asked children's services to become involved or not at this point. Hopefully since the aunt will be going to court soon they will all be on their best behavior for the time being.

 

[Dee77]

OP here again, to clarify one thing and provide an update:

I did not call the police because she was yelling at the child and cursing, I called them only after I reached out to her and asked if they were OK and it was obvious that she was not in the frame of mind to adjust what she was doing. I did give her the benefit of the doubt but then again, all of us who were in her path ended up on the receiving end of her verbal attacks, first the child, then me and finally the officers.

The update that I have is that I was not the only one to call the police, actually I wasn't even the first one to call. A woman who lives nearby called because she thought she saw the woman hit the child, this explains why the officers were there so quickly.

I still do not understand why people think that physical violence is the defining variable before they would do something. Physical violence is usually precipitated by verbal abuse.

It's also interesting to see how many people think someone should mind their own business when an adult is screaming and cursing at a child

 

[abdmom]

OP, I give a big thumbs up to you for getting involved. I was a mandated reporter when I lived in the U.S. Emotional abuse is right up there with physical abuse in the child abuse legislation. My license would have required that I call the authorities.

Just because child services didn't appear then and there, doesn't mean that they won't be appearing at the child's home sometime later.

 

[DMRick]

As the story gets added to, and now the child might have been hit (I assume, which might be wrong, not a spanking type of hit) then perhaps just being yelled at, my opinion might be different. To get the police there sooner, it must have been a lot more than a spanking, or at least the first person who called them must have indicated that.
For myself, since (at least in my city) yelling at your child does not indicate in the police eyes that physical violence is taking place, as I said, I would not have called, and I doubt the police would have come if I told them a child was being yelled at in the park (or even cursed at). If they did come, because (as you now said in your update) they thought there was violence, the child would not have gone home with someone who allowed abuse to take place. The child protective services would have been called immediately, so maybe you'll find out that the child didn't go home, but CPS took him instead.
I do believe it is considered different when you yell and curse at the police, than a child from your family. It's good as you have now found out from the other person that called that she called the police because she saw the child being hit. For me the difference was that you called because you saw the child being yelled at (cursed at), and you asked in the original post, under those circumstances, what would we do. I would not have called the cops. Since someone saw the child actually being hit, that's now a different scenerio, IMO.

Physical violence is usually precipitated by verbal abuse.

But not always. I would say prob not even often. Lots of parents yell at their kids, and yet don't physically abuse them.

 

[Dee77]

As the story gets added to, and now the child might have been hit (I assume, which might be wrong, not a spanking type of hit) then perhaps just being yelled at, my opinion might be different. To get the police there sooner, it must have been a lot more than a spanking, or at least the first person who called them must have indicated that.
For myself, since (at least in my city) yelling at your child does not indicate in the police eyes that physical violence is taking place, as I said, I would not have called, and I doubt the police would have come if I told them a child was being yelled at in the park (or even cursed at). If they did come, because (as you now said in your update) they thought there was violence, the child would not have gone home with someone who allowed abuse to take place. The child protective services would have been called immediately, so maybe you'll find out that the child didn't go home, but CPS took him instead.
I do believe it is considered different when you yell and curse at the police, than a child from your family. It's good as you have now found out from the other person that called that she called the police because she saw the child being hit. For me the difference was that you called because you saw the child being yelled at (cursed at), and you asked in the original post, under those circumstances, what would we do. I would not have called the cops. Since someone saw the child actually being hit, that's now a different scenerio, IMO.



But not always. I would say prob not even often. Lots of parents yell at their kids, and yet don't physically abuse them.

The child went home with his father, I never said the woman actually saw the child get hit, she thought she did. I have every confidence that the officers would not have let the child go home with his Dad if they believed he was hit. The woman was arrested because of her actions and threats towards the cops, resisting arrest etc.

Yelling leading to physical violence is not the point I was trying to make, again there is a big difference between yelling as a correction and the screaming, cursing and not having control that I witnessed.

 

[bettymae1121]

There is yelling, there is losing your temper, and then there is coming completely unglued. It sounds like the woman the OP is talking about was in the "unglued" catagory, and I would have done something had I witnessed something like that. Everyone probably loses their temper with their kid at some point, but there is a difference between just being more mad than the situation calls for and being truely verbally abusive. I would guess that the angry woman was giving off vibes that she was about to beat the snot out that kid (and it sounds like she had already struck the child at least once, according to the OP's later update).

It's hard to convey that type of rage in a post on an internet site, but if the OP witnessed the kind rage I'm thinking of, she was 100% right to intervine. Those of you that say they'd walk away from that may not just be comprehending the kind of behavior I think the OP is indicating, and I hope if you ever witness it, you'll change your mind and do something about it.

 

[happygirl]

Myob