WWYD? DD's Friends and Their Lack of Education.

[luvsJack]

DD is very good friends with two sisters. One is her age, 11 and the other is a bit older, 13 or 14. They all became close friends when the 11 year old was in dd's class at school. After our girls had been friends about a year, their mother came to me and said that she had decided to home school her girls. Her reasons were that there was "too much going on at that school". That was 2 years ago. FF to now: the girls are getting NO education. The spend 0 time doing any type of school work whatsoever. They are supposed to be doing their work by computer but never do any of it, at all. They stay up all night and sleep all day and will tell me that they do this. Dd will be talking about things she has learned in school and neither of these girls have a clue what she is talking about.

I feel so sorry for these girls. The oldest should be entering high school soon and she is so far behind that even if she went back to school she wouldn't be able to be in the class she should be in. She won't interact with the other kids her age as it is. I pick them up to go to church with dd and the older girl should be in the youth group and the younger girls still in the children's (well actually its called "merge") group. She always asks to go with the younger group.
And the younger girl is starting to stay home more and more, many times it is only the older girl that will go with us; this is the only interaction they get with other kids.

I am seriously considering contacting the correct authorities but not sure who that is. I personally consider this child neglect but realize it may not fall under those laws. Would I contact the truant officer? Should I do that?

I know our state doesn't have very strict home school laws, but this is ridiculous. These girls have 0 chance of getting anywhere in life. The youngest wants to be a veterinarian and I wonder if her mother realizes she is ruining this child's dreams.

 

[MsLeFever]

I bet the principal at your DD's school could give you some advice - or might even want to handle it herself.

I think you are right to step in.

 

[npmommie]

DD is very good friends with two sisters. One is her age, 11 and the other is a bit older, 13 or 14. They all became close friends when the 11 year old was in dd's class at school. After our girls had been friends about a year, their mother came to me and said that she had decided to home school her girls. Her reasons were that there was "too much going on at that school". That was 2 years ago. FF to now: the girls are getting NO education. The spend 0 time doing any type of school work whatsoever. They are supposed to be doing their work by computer but never do any of it, at all. They stay up all night and sleep all day and will tell me that they do this. Dd will be talking about things she has learned in school and neither of these girls have a clue what she is talking about.

I feel so sorry for these girls. The oldest should be entering high school soon and she is so far behind that even if she went back to school she wouldn't be able to be in the class she should be in. She won't interact with the other kids her age as it is. I pick them up to go to church with dd and the older girl should be in the youth group and the younger girls still in the children's (well actually its called "merge") group. She always asks to go with the younger group.
And the younger girl is starting to stay home more and more, many times it is only the older girl that will go with us; this is the only interaction they get with other kids.

I am seriously considering contacting the correct authorities but not sure who that is. I personally consider this child neglect but realize it may not fall under those laws. Would I contact the truant officer? Should I do that?

I know our state doesn't have very strict home school laws, but this is ridiculous. These girls have 0 chance of getting anywhere in life. The youngest wants to be a veterinarian and I wonder if her mother realizes she is ruining this child's dreams.

well how do you know they do no school work at all? how do you know they do 0 work?
just because they didn't know what your kids are doing in class doesn't necessarily mean they are not being educated. homeschoolers do not have to follow the public school curriculum.
so they could be working on something completely different.

as far as the interaction, how do you know that is the only interaction they get at sunday school? do you know what they do all week?
if the mother is only providing that one outing with other kids each week then yes I agree that is wrong.
since you don't live with this family, and really don't know exactly what they are doing for their homeschool, I would not be calling anyone.
your state only requires a notification.........they don't require anything else. so they are unlikely to do anything about this. i don't think they oversee home educators and their programs there

 

[npmommie]

I was going to add, what you could do if you are on friendly terms with the mom, you could strike up a conversation just out of curiosity to see what she is using for curriculum.
that may give you an idea of what they are doing.

 

[teacups]

DD is very good friends with two sisters. One is her age, 11 and the other is a bit older, 13 or 14. They all became close friends when the 11 year old was in dd's class at school. After our girls had been friends about a year, their mother came to me and said that she had decided to home school her girls. Her reasons were that there was "too much going on at that school". That was 2 years ago. FF to now: the girls are getting NO education. The spend 0 time doing any type of school work whatsoever. They are supposed to be doing their work by computer but never do any of it, at all. They stay up all night and sleep all day and will tell me that they do this. Dd will be talking about things she has learned in school and neither of these girls have a clue what she is talking about.

I feel so sorry for these girls. The oldest should be entering high school soon and she is so far behind that even if she went back to school she wouldn't be able to be in the class she should be in. She won't interact with the other kids her age as it is. I pick them up to go to church with dd and the older girl should be in the youth group and the younger girls still in the children's (well actually its called "merge") group. She always asks to go with the younger group.
And the younger girl is starting to stay home more and more, many times it is only the older girl that will go with us; this is the only interaction they get with other kids.

I am seriously considering contacting the correct authorities but not sure who that is. I personally consider this child neglect but realize it may not fall under those laws. Would I contact the truant officer? Should I do that?

I know our state doesn't have very strict home school laws, but this is ridiculous. These girls have 0 chance of getting anywhere in life. The youngest wants to be a veterinarian and I wonder if her mother realizes she is ruining this child's dreams.

UG! I homeschool... and could not imagine this! Oh, it happens and I have seen it, too. Why in the world do people homeschool if they are not willing to put the time in? It's a LOT of hard work, and I'll tell you, it takes nearly 100% of my time. Planning, shopping (for curriculum and supplies) teaching, grading, field trips, special classes.... it never ends. But, I love it! My kids love it!
Ok, to your daughters friend. They do online schooling, which in my state would mean they are actually public schooled from home (in many cases) and working with a public school teacher. Do you know if this is the case? I wish I could give you more details so you would know, but I dont use an online program, I really homeschool the nitty gritty way .
In her defense: Many times homeschoolers will teach at odd times and even in odd ways. Do they know other things that maybe your girls dont know, becasue they are learning different curriculum? I mean, that could be the case.
If it were any other poster I'd wonder if they were being nosy and anti homeschool (many are), but since it's you I know you really think this is a problem and that these girls are not getting the proper help.
Another homeschool friend of mine met someone last week who didnt want her 11 year dd old to go back to public school because she does all the dishes and laundry! My friend wanted to slap her!
I have to add that some of my neighbors think I am a crappy mom because they see my homeshooled kids outside during the school day. My kids get a recess from 10:30-11:00 . What? They homeschool so they shouldnt get play time? You'd think maybe those nosy biddies would stop and wonder why it's the exact same time everyday. Just plain stupid.
Luvsjack, I hope you can figure something out. Do what your heart tells you.
If these were public schooled kids would you consider stepping in?

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

You could always contact protective services......

 

[teacups]

You could always contact protective services......

And possibly get these kids hauled away while they investigate?
I dont think thats fair. If it were physical abuse it would be different, but in this case nothing is known for sure. It could very well be explained. But no matter what I dont think the kids deserve to be put through THAT. If the mom is really doing NOTHING then she needs to put them back into public school or actually homeschool them...
The local school district would be a better choice.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

And possibly get these kids hauled away while they investigate?
I dont think thats fair. If it were physical abuse it would be different, but in this case nothing is known for sure. It could very well be explained. But no matter what I dont think the kids deserve to be put through THAT. If the mom is really doing NOTHING then she needs to put them back into public school or actually homeschool them...
The local school district would be a better choice.

Investigations are done first~
If there is nothing to hide than the kids stay where they are....

Abuse comes in many forms & not all forms leave bruises.
What isn't fair is for children to be refused an education. What the kids deserve is a fair chance in the world.

 

[luvsJack]

well how do you know they do no school work at all? how do you know they do 0 work? and the staying up all night, when do you see the kids for them to tell you this if they sleep all day?
and just because they didn't know what your kids are doing in class doesn't necessarily mean they are not being educated. homeschoolers do not have to follow the public school curriculum.
so they could be working on something completely different.

as far as the interaction, how do you know that is the only interaction they get at sunday school? do you know what they do all week?
if the mother is only providing that one outing with other kids each week then yes I agree that is wrong.
its not neglect but its wrong.

since you don't live with this family, and really don't know exactly what they are doing for their homeschool, I would not be calling anyone.
your state only requires a notification.........they don't require anything else. so they are unlikely to do anything about this.

I see them in the late afternoon and evenings, my daughter attends school and I go to work so we wouldn't see them in the middle of the day anyway. DD gets texts from these girls at 2 or 3 in the morning (time of the text showing on her phone, her phone is in the kitchen so she doesn't get the text till the next morning) almost every night. DD has spent the night with the girls and calls me the next day to come get her because no one will get up (including mom) and when they spend the night here they will tell me they are not used to going to bed at night because they don't have to go to bed at any certain time anymore. Even their mom will say that they sleep all day.

How many 13 year olds do you know that would prefer to be in a children's group at church instead of the youth group? Dd can't wait until next year when she moves up, but this girl won't go with the kids her age. And both girls have told me that if it wasn't for dd, they wouldn't ever see any other kids or have anyone to talk to. They get no social interaction--that is a big part of education whether you are home schooled, attend private school or public school. Their mother isn't "providing" this outing or any other, I do. A few times when she was supposed to pick the girls up from church, she was an hour late! I don't allow dd to ride home with them anymore.

As for the school work, they TELL me and dd that they don't do the work. They are not doing different work, they are doing no work at all. Their mom has complained several times that "she can never get them to do anything". They brag about getting around their mom and not doing their work.

They live about 5 minutes from me and talk to dd daily, she knows 99.9% of what they do and don't do.

I don't expect a child that is home schooled to follow the same curriculum as the public school; but I would hope that they would be at the same (or above) reading level and math level (and most home school kids I know are above grade level). It is embarrassing the things that the younger girl doesn't understand. Things she should have learned a year or two ago. These girls are extremely behind. They are planning to attend the same high school as dd--but they are going to be so far behind I am afraid they will just drop out.

I don't have anything against home school. This is not home school this is NO-school.

If the state requires nothing else, then maybe the place to start is with the school systems that need to change these laws.

 

[teacups]

Investigations are done first~
If there is nothing to hide than the kids stay where they are....

Abuse comes in many forms & not all forms leave bruises.
What isn't fair is for children to be refused an education. What the kids deserve is a fair chance in the world.

Well Im no expert by any means, but I know someone who had her kids removed first then they investigated. The kids came home 3 weeks later when it found nothing was wrong. That was not a school issue though... and maybe that had something to do with it. Ever since that, I've been against calling them unless it was needed. It's so unfair to the kids.

 

[redlight]

What's your assessment of the mother? Do you think she would listen to you if you had a "I'm concerned about your daughters" talk?

 

[luvsJack]

UG! I homeschool... and could not imagine this! Oh, it happens and I have seen it, too. Why in the world do people homeschool if they are not willing to put the time in? It's a LOT of hard work, and I'll tell you, it takes nearly 100% of my time. Planning, shopping (for curriculum and supplies) teaching, grading, field trips, special classes.... it never ends. But, I love it! My kids love it!
Ok, to your daughters friend. They do online schooling, which in my state would mean they are actually public schooled from home (in many cases) and working with a public school teacher. Do you know if this is the case? I wish I could give you more details so you would know, but I dont use an online program, I really homeschool the nitty gritty way .
In her defense: Many times homeschoolers will teach at odd times and even in odd ways. Do they know other things that maybe your girls dont know, becasue they are learning different curriculum? I mean, that could be the case.
If it were any other poster I'd wonder if they were being nosy and anti homeschool (many are), but since it's you I know you really think this is a problem and that these girls are not getting the proper help.
Another homeschool friend of mine met someone last week who didnt want her 11 year dd old to go back to public school because she does all the dishes and laundry! My friend wanted to slap her!
I have to add that some of my neighbors think I am a crappy mom because they see my homeshooled kids outside during the school day. My kids get a recess from 10:30-11:00 . What? They homeschool so they shouldnt get play time? You'd think maybe those nosy biddies would stop and wonder why it's the exact same time everyday. Just plain stupid.
Luvsjack, I hope you can figure something out. Do what your heart tells you.
If these were public schooled kids would you consider stepping in?

Thanks, Teacups.

Your method of homeschooling is what it is supposed to be and is what makes home school children excel. I wish I was wrong about these girls, but I know that I am not.

You know, your last question really has me thinking. If a teacher in our school was doing as little teaching as these girls are getting--I would complain loud and clear. I think I may at least contact the district superintendent and discuss it with her.

Again, thanks.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Well Im no expert by any means, but I know someone who had her kids removed first then they investigated. The kids came home 3 weeks later when it found nothing was wrong. That was not a school issue though... and maybe that had something to do with it. Ever since that, I've been against calling them unless it was needed. It's so unfair to the kids.

IMHO it's unfair to turn your back when a child might be in a very unhealthy environment.

 

[teacups]

And both girls have told me that if it wasn't for dd, they wouldn't ever see any other kids or have anyone to talk to. They get no social interaction--that is a big part of education whether you are home schooled, attend private school or public school. Their mother isn't "providing" this outing or any other, I do. A few times when she was supposed to pick the girls up from church, she was an hour late! I don't allow dd to ride home with them anymore.


If the state requires nothing else, then maybe the place to start is with the school systems that need to change these laws.

They dont take a PE, music, swim, gymnastics, horseback or any other lesson????

I personally am against too many homeschool laws. I am against testing simply because in public school they teach-to-the-test. In homeschool we do not. We teach a wide variety but not exactly (usually) what they test to. That isnt fair. And I dont want them telling me what curriculum to use, because my kids get a better education my way than they did at the public school. When someone comes up with a fair way to do it.. I'd be all for it.

No matter how many laws, you cant teach a stupid lazy parent not to be stupid and lazy.

 

[hereyago]

There may be a couple things that are going on. 1.The mom has stated she can't get the girls to do anything. 2. the mom have maybe just given up because she lacks disciplining them and they act a fool. 3. Are these girls and your girls the only ones in the neighborhood, because if they can call and do the things they are doing, they can go out in the neighborhood and play with other kids.
I would talk to the Mom and tell her what all is going on with the texting and what her girls are saying. They say it takes a village to raise a child. And sometimes you have to help raise.guide an adult as well.

 

[redlight]

IMHO it's unfair to turn your back when a child might be in a very unhealthy environment.

I agree, but there's a range of actions between doing nothing and calling CPS. Given that the children are not in immediate danger, calling CPS should be the last resort, used only if other options fail.

 

[teacups]

IMHO it's unfair to turn your back when a child might be in a very unhealthy environment.

I never said to turn her back on these kids. But the school district is the proper way. Your way is just

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I never said to turn her back on these kids. But the school district is the proper way. Your way is just

Yes, it's proactive.


Redlight, if the OP had a relationship with the Mom I'm sure she would know what was actually going on but it doesn't seem that way. I could be wrong.

If the Mom is not teaching the kids I don't know how one would make her get on the ball~

 

[redlight]

Redlight, if the OP had a relationship with the Mom I'm sure she would know what was actually going on but it doesn't seem that way. I could be wrong.

It's still worth a shot. And even if the mother doesn't respond to the OP, there's no need to call in CPS immediately. A teacher or other professional could get involved. You said you could be wrong. Given that, it makes sense not to escalate the situation without trying to defuse it first.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

It's still worth a shot. And even if the mother doesn't respond to the OP, there's no need to call in CPS immediately. A teacher or other professional could get involved. You said you could be wrong. Given that, it makes sense not to escalate the situation without trying to defuse it first.

Your right, I would just hope the OP would keep CPS in the front of her mind if needed.