WTH Mel??

[MorganLeFey]

Next town, yes. Other coast, no. She was discussing a crime in Seattle and she is in NY. I could say they same things about the muggings in NYNY and not wanting to walk in Seattle, but IMO that would be a stretch.

My grandmother came to this country in 1920. she left behind her mother and her youngest sister, who were killed in the Holocaust. that is the closest I come to "personal experience" of the Holocaust. yet ...several years ago I took my daughters to see a revivial of "the Sound of Music." in Act 2, there is a scene where the von trapps are on the stage and singing. in this production, the directro shose to unfurl humongous Nazi flags on the stage ... and there was a collective gasp from the audience. the symbol still retains that much power.

you don't think that the lunatic in Seattle has "buddies"? there are over 6 million Jews in NYC and its suburbs, more than in Israel or anywhere else in the world. ir someone hates Jews and wants to randomly kill them...well, here's where he'd find us.

anti Semitism has been on the rise in NYC for years: http://www.house.gov/weiner/report21.htm


this article is about ten years old, but still relevant:

http://www.uscj.org/SocPolBias_Crimes5459.html


but we're being alarmists, aren't we, cardaway?

 

[PolyHereWeCome]

I see the point you are making now, but when you are a part of the group, as she apparently is, that is the object of the hatred, I think you have the right to be concerned no matter what coast you are on. These highly publicized hate crimes have a tendency to embolden others to attempt to do the same. I don't have stats but I did read a study where it was documented that this does occur.

Really well written, eclectics.
A popular public figure spouting prejudice comments provides validation for some who also harbor those prejudice feelings.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Really well written, eclectics.
A popular public figure spouting prejudice comments provides validation for some who also harbor those prejudice feelings.

bingo.

 

[cardaway]

but we're being alarmists, aren't we, cardaway?

Please point out where I said that.

 

[MorganLeFey]

I see the point you are making now, but when you are a part of the group, as she apparently is, that is the object of the hatred, I think you have the right to be concerned no matter what coast you are on. These highly publicized hate crimes have a tendency to embolden others to attempt to do the same. I don't have stats but I did read a study where it was documented that this does occur.

exactly.

you're likely to see a police presense at your local mosque around Ramadan. but you're not likelyto see police around your church at Christmas...unless they're directing traffic. it's abundantly clear why that is.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Please point out where I said that.

well, you didn't use the word "alarmist" this time around. though as I recall, you told me I was an alarmist the last time we had this discussion. but when you satated I shouldn't be concerned about what happened in Seattle because I live in NY...you implied it.

 

[poohandwendy]

Part of me wonders if Mels rant was a angry tirade which reflected things he has heard when growing up? It just seemed too much like what his father would say (from what i have read)

Either way, pretty messed up stuff.

I have said things I did not mean when drunk. Like 'I love you" to someone who thought I was being sincere....I know, that is really bad...it was a really long time ago.

 

[cardaway]

well, you didn't use the word "alarmist" this time around.

Thanks, didn't think so.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Thanks, didn't think so.

you are being very literal, you know.

 

[Goobergal99]

I didn't read all 12 pages however I wanted to add my 2 cents none the less. First of all like it's aleady been expressed, he was drunk and so although he may have made honest statements, I don't think we can really count on that as fact. Secondly, I don't really care what his personal opinions are because he is merely an actor, I happen to like his movies and I am not really interested in his personal feelings.

On the other hand in reference to the comment he made about jews being responsible for all the wars in the world. Um has he forgotten the crusades?? Catholics don't have clean hands themselves and this is from someone who spend thirteen years in catholic school ( I am an italian american for goodness sakes, most of us are catholic)

 

[yeartolate]

Wrong thread

 

[poohandwendy]

Ok, what I do not understand is the total outrage and call for his making right like he is a politician who gave a hate speech. He was under the influence, being arrested...obviously the man was out of control.

I mean, sheesh...he does not owe the world for his reckless and meanspirited words. I think he owes an apology to the people he was ranting at, more than anything. But, his behavior was not aimed at the public....he did not have a microphone in front of him. And he publicly apologized for what he said, that should be enough. Either be ok with that or hold it against him forever. Your choice.

I agree what he said it out of line and truly awful, but he is not a public official paid for with our tax dollars. I do not understand why people think he owes the world some sort of restitution.

 

[Goobergal99]

God put Gay people on this Earth - he wants them to couple and marry. His actions prevent abortions, We should probably stop interfering with his plan.

not sure what this is in reference to or what it has to do with the topic, but god also created the doctors who perform abortions... so lets not interfere with his plan

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL...and he created murderers and kids born with defects...where are we going with this?

 

[eclectics]

A popular public figure spouting prejudice comments provides validation for some who also harbor those prejudice feelings.

Exactly why I believe all people in the public arena should have a responsibility to be doubly careful of what they say and do. There are a lot of impressionable people who are just looking for some sort of justification to do and say bad things. When they hear hate from the songs they listen to and the celebrities they look up to, that might just be enough to give them the little "push" they are looking for to act things out rather than keeping it to themselves.

 

[poohandwendy]

Exactly why I believe all people in the public arena should have a responsibility to be doubly careful of what they say and do. There are a lot of impressionable people who are just looking for some sort of justification to do and say bad things. When they hear hate from the songs they listen to and the celebrities they look up to, that might just be enough to give them the little "push" they are looking for to act things out rather than keeping it to themselves.

OMG, I cannot agree with passing the buck onto public figures when a citizen commits a wrong. Why do we expect a higher level of responsibility from celebrities that everyday people? That is just wrong, IMO.

If we published what everyday people have said during a drunken arrest, we would heard all sorts of hateful things.

 

[eclectics]

Why do we expect a higher level of responsibility from celebrities that everyday people? That is just wrong, IMO.

Because, like it or not, they have the public ear, so to speak. Acting a fool or other harmless behavior that only hurts themselves is one thing, but when a celebrity or a public figure spouts hate or indirectly condones it, they do have a responsibility to realize that a lot of people are going to hear them. A lot of sports figures have openly said they realize a lot of impressionable young folk hang on their every word and action and they accept the responsibility of having to adjust their behavior and speech accordingly. Of course, sadly, some don't.

 

[MorganLeFey]

Ok, what I do not understand is the total outrage and call for his making right like he is a politician who gave a hate speech. He was under the influence, being arrested...obviously the man was out of control.

I mean, sheesh...he does not owe the world for his reckless and meanspirited words. I think he owes an apology to the people he was ranting at, more than anything. But, his behavior was not aimed at the public....he did not have a microphone in front of him. And he publicly apologized for what he said, that should be enough. Either be ok with that or hold it against him forever. Your choice.

I agree what he said it out of line and truly awful, but he is not a public official paid for with our tax dollars. I do not understand why people think he owes the world some sort of restitution.

no, he's not a politician. but he makes movies with the power to influence. and if he wants to continue to make movies he has to satisfy the public who will go to see those movies. acting and directing are service industries, after all.

 

[poohandwendy]

Because, like it or not, they have the public ear, so to speak. Acting a fool or other harmless behavior that only hurts themselves is one thing, but when a celebrity or a public figure spouts hate or indirectly condones it, they do have a responsibility to realize that a lot of people are going to hear them. A lot of sports figures have openly said they realize a lot of impressionable young folk hang on their every word and action and they accept the responsibility of having to adjust their behavior and speech accordingly. Of course, sadly, some don't.

I think they should be held accountable for what they say publicly, but not what they say privately.

This country places far too much emphasis on glorifying celebrities and placing them on pedestals. Maybe it is a good thing for kids to see that they are not superheros, that they are human beings and should not be idolized as individuals...but only for the talents they have? Because humans are imperfect. Every one of us. Jmho.

 

[poohandwendy]

no, he's not a politician. but he makes movies with the power to influence. and if he wants to continue to make movies he has to satisfy the public who will go to see those movies. acting and directing are service industries, after all.

I total agree with people choosing not to see his movies if they do not like him. I do not agree that he has to satisfy people with his personal life. His influence is not based on power he holds, but power the public GIVES him.