Wow....

[perdidobay]

I'm all for providing healthcare to everyone for free if you can cut tax waste elsewhere to pay for it.
That said............

Where do you draw the line and say enough is enough?
Isn't 35% of a persons earned money enough??

And loop holes for that bracket??? I guess not many people are aware that
deductions for many line items are phased out as you earn more.

Someone making the top bracket in income is already paying more in taxes than most becasue they are earning more. What's so fair about penalizing them for being productive by upping their tax rate?

I'd say everyone who pays taxes is doing their civic duty. Those that earn alot more are doing more of it.

 

[mickeyfan2]

So you would rather have better roads than healthier Americans?

I'm sure all the poeple who died in the recent bridge collapse would rather see more going to health care and less to roads. The best health care system in the world will not save theirs lives. If the bridge was well maintained they would be alive today.

 

[ducklite]

If you are insured and getting preventative care it is more likely that the cancer would still be caught in time to give you a good outcome if possible even if you had to wait two weeks longer than you do now. What about those who currently do not have insurance and wait too long to be seen because they can't afford it and their cancer is caught a year later than it would have been if they had insurance? With UHC these lives could be saved as well as yours. Does that really not count for anything with you?

When I didn't have insurance (my employer didn't offer it and I was looking for another job the whole time I worked there) I went to a community health clinic. It took about two weeks from the time you called to make the appointment until you were seen. You paid based on a sliding income scale, anything from $0 to 25. There are ways to see a doctor without relying on the ER. The clinic wasn't in a good part of town, they hours weren't all that convenient (I had to take off from work), it wasn't plush, and you got whatever doctor was on rotation. But it was valid health care.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

So what you are saying is that you would rather her go on welfare then to take part in a universal healthcare system,(If I wasn't paying it that would be her only choice) so that you would not have an increased wait to see a doctor? However you are ok with several people going without so you can have yours?


I don't get it. If we all bend a little we can all benefit.

What does welfare have to do with it? I never said that.

I do hope that just like with the current system, doctors will be able to accept the insurance plans that they choose, and based on that I'm sure some doctors will continue to only accept the best (the "luxury") plans. My current doctor is picky about the plans they accept already, so frankly it probably won't matter much.

Anne

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

I'm sure all the poeple who died in the recent bridge collapse would rather see more going to health care and less to roads. The best health care system in the world will not save theirs lives. If the bridge was well maintained they would be alive today.

How many people died, 12? How many thousands die every year due to inadequate health care?

 

[mickeyfan2]

I can assure you that my girlfriend cannot get insurance. She has a good job, works for a small business. No it does not provide healthcare, however simply changing jobs is not the answer.

She could get coverage if she just chose to not work. She has applied many times for insurance and is denied every time due to pre existing conditions. She make to much money to use the state health insurance. We pay all of her medical bills out of pocket. This year it was almost 3 times her salary. Yes we take vacations, I pay for them. I also pay for my sister in laws health insurance as well as her 2 sons schooling as she works over an hour away from home and cannot put them in local schools. I am not saying this to toot my own horn I am saying this so you know I am willing to put my money where my mouth and beliefs are. Many , to many, are just lip service.

And as for the people who are taking vacations and running around in expensive cars, well we must run in very different circles. The majority of my friends are holding down 2 to 3 jobs just trying to make ends meet, many uninsured.

What job to you hold? That is an impressive amount of money you make.

Also if you SO spend 3 times her salary on health care in a year then maybe she should stop working and let the government pay.

 

[wvjules]

What does welfare have to do with it? I never said that.

I do hope that just like with the current system, doctors will be able to accept the insurance plans that they choose, and based on that I'm sure some doctors will continue to only accept the best (the "luxury") plans. My current doctor is picky about the plans they accept already, so frankly it probably won't matter much.

Anne

Well thank goodness you doctor doesn't want to associate with the riff-raff either. Heaven forbid you sit next to one in the waiting room. The more you post the more of an elitist ***** you sound like.

 

[dansamy]

I busted my behind and made sacrifices, some of them very dire sacrifices, to put my husband through school and then he worked while I went to school. Along the way, we ruined our credit, missed a lot of those "first steps" moments with our kids, almost ruined our marriage, and did without a lot of things most people consider "basics". My point is, we sacrificed a lot in order to build a better future for ourselves and our children. Yes, people can make wrong choices early in life, but that doesn't stop them from going back to school and making a better choice, if they are willing to make those sacrifices. I'm all for government programs to help the people help themselves to a better life. Educational programs, grants/scholarships/loan repayments, rehab services, things like that. I'm not a supporter of siphoning money off the wallets of hard-working people who pay for their own health-care (and some people do work two jobs to afford their health insurance and still have an income to live on) so the goevernment can set up a UHC system. We already have programs for the elderly and disabled for their healthcare. The rest of the folks are able-bodied who need to get a little ingenuity, perseverance and budgeting skills. Nobody said it was gonna be easy, but you make the choices in life that are important to you.

*puts on kevlar flame-proof jumpsuit* I know my opinion isn't popular. That doesn't make it wrong.

 

[Crankyshank]

I live in the state ranked the worst in bridge repair. We also have seriously crappy roads because of the money earmarked for roads is going into the hwy relocation project. I would much rather money go towards bridge, dam, and road repair than state health insurance.

***I am not saying that there should be no money put towards health care. I am saying I would not sacrifice any amount of infrastructure budget to pay for it ****

 

[mickeyfan2]

I still want to believe that people object because they see too much fraud and waste and fear more of the same, not because they don't think people deserve to have health care.

There is far too much waste and fraud now. I don't want to help the government and those individuals to even more money to waste and get in a fraudulant way. Way to many in my mother's side of the family who do this and ALL could hold down a job.

We're never going to make anything fraud proof, someone will always figure out a way to beat the system-but we really do need to do better. If we could eliminate much of the fraud and get rid of the loopholes in the tax system that allow people to hide their money from the IRS-we might not need to raise taxes to provide for people at all.

True and also kick people who are getting money from the government off if they could get employment.

 

[ducklite]

Well thank goodness you doctor doesn't want to associate with the riff-raff either. Heaven forbid you sit next to one in the waiting room. The more you post the more of an elitist ***** you sound like.

Wrong again. I want to get the best possible health care I can, and am willing to pay for it. My doctor only accepts the plans that pays the most. It has nothing to do with "riff-raff." My next door neighbor has no US health insurance (Brit) and uses the same doctor--she pays cash, which the practice is quite happy to accept.

Whether or not you realize it--or agree with it--doctors pick and choose their patients based on the ability to pay--or the health insurance they do or don't have. Many doctors won't accept un or under-insured patients. Many doctors only accept patients with certain insurance companies--because they know they'll get paid, and get paid enough to stay in business.

I pay a higher premium to get better insurance coverage. It's how I choose to spend my money. If I go McDonalds, I expect to have my food slapped together into a bag. If I go to Coq Au Vin I expect artful presentation and attentive service. I pay a lot more for the latter. It's the same thing with health care.

Anne

 

[hydster]

I busted my behind and made sacrifices, some of them very dire sacrifices, to put my husband through school and then he worked while I went to school. Along the way, we ruined our credit, missed a lot of those "first steps" moments with our kids, almost ruined our marriage, and did without a lot of things most people consider "basics".

Yes because we all KNOW that none of those who don't have health care never did anything as wonderful or sacrificed as much as you right? Give me a break!

 

[PghLybrt]

What job to you hold? That is an impressive amount of money you make.

Also if you SO spend 3 times her salary on health care in a year then maybe she should stop working and let the government pay.

I do make a good deal of money( I also work 7 days a week for about a 7 month stretch and then go down to 6 days , so there are defiantly downsides. I do not live in a huge home have only 1 car, and a practical one at that. I do however like to go to Disney and vacation once a year). Three times is not the norm but it was what her bills were this year(and she only makes about 24k a year). She also could sit around and be a non productive member of society but she has a thing we call pride and drive.

Funny though we have been together 13 years, and if laws would change we could just get married and she could be on my insurance....but that is a completely different thread.

 

[connorlevismom]

And as to the subsided daycare. My sister in law spend 600 a week on day care (so that the children are watched after school) and she receives 125 a week in subsidy.

How many kids does your SIL have and where does she send them to daycare? Surely she could find something cheaper. $600.00 a week seems a bit excessive.

Kristine

 

[aprilgail2]

Ok, I'll jump into the fire

Is it selfish of me to expect the fruits of my labor to be... well... mine? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to take responsibility for their own lives? If it is, then call me selfish. Is it selfish of me to expect people to live with the consequences of their decisions? If it is, then call me selfish.

From my perspective, expecting others to take care of me is far more selfish.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "

-- Thomas Jefferson

I agree 100 percent!!!!!!

 

[mickeyfan2]

We pay between 10 and 15 percent of our income to insurance ($4500 per year). There are alot of people who say they can't afford insurance, but they can drive new cars. What is really more important?

I don't know what the answer is, but I can't imagine the govenment being in charge of my health. Heck, they can't even balance the budget!

Sadly many think the new car and then will cry foul when they need medical care and cannot pay for it. By that time the nice car is in the junk yard.

You are doing the right thing.

 

[mickeyfan2]

This is the problem with arguing about this. People don't actually read the proposals being put out there. Clinton's proposal says people WILL have the option to stay with what they have. If you like your insurance, you keep it and your company will be given tax breaks for offering such good insurance. Nobody will be forced into anything. Obama's was the same. Nobody wants to tell you what you can or can't do, they just want everyone to have access to what you are so happy with.

But I buy mine privately so I will not get a corporate tax break and will pay higher taxes. Seems extremely unfair to me.

 

[PghLybrt]

How many kids does your SIL have and where does she send them to daycare? Surely she could find something cheaper. $600.00 a week seems a bit excessive.

Kristine

That's what I thought until I looked into it for her. In order for her to keep her job she must show up on time. SO she take s the kids to daycare, they take the kids to school and pick them up. She would not be able to work without them. She has 2 kids, but in the area where she works where an average home goes for 300-400 k she is getting off cheap. It works out to 300 a week per child. Friends where I live are paying $250 and absolutley no transportation is offered.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

How many kids does your SIL have and where does she send them to daycare? Surely she could find something cheaper. $600.00 a week seems a bit excessive.

Kristine

I have one child and it is $203 per week. That is for one of the less expensive ones in town. Kindercare and New Horizons can be as much as 400-500 per kid per week.

 

[mickeyfan2]

How many people died, 12? How many thousands die every year due to inadequate health care?

But bridges all over will be collapsing. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul is not the answer. Personal responsiblity is.