WoW! How does happen? (Booking BWV Standards at 11 mos)

[drusba]

What would you consider it to be if there were a couple of years that Disney CRO had a 2BR concierge villa (or the split of a studio and a 1BR) at AKV to rent during the week of Christmas? It was definitely the DVC villa room. Taking under the table or just getting their allocation to rent out (but I think they'd have to be circumventing the booking system we all use in order to get that villa).

DVD retains ownership of 2% to 4% of the units in each resort. There are also points it controls when members trade out. As far as being able to reserve rooms, the offical documents provide that Disney is subject to the same rules as the members. Thus it cannot intentionally take hold of rooms before other members can also do so, e.g., Disney cannot lock up a room at 11 1/2 months out.

But Disney's being subject to the same reservation rules as members can itself be a serious disadvantage for members. That means Disney can reserve anything exactly 11 months out and undoubtedly do it quickly. Following rules applicabee to members, it is not required to have the identity of those who will actually end up being in the room when the reservation is made, i.e., it does not necessarily have to already have a renter before it reserves rooms. Under the rules applicable to members, Disney, which controls a lot of points, could, if it wanted to, attempt to reserve a lot of the BWV standard view studios, BLT standard rooms, AKV value and club level rooms, and VGF studios for the first week of December or Christmas week at exactly 11 months out. Likely one could argue Disney was not acting reasonably in the interest of members under its fiduciary obligations if Disney went too extreme, but it can still probably do some degree of predatory reserving and get away with it.

 

[mustinjourney]

DVD retains ownership of 2% to 4% of the units in each resort. There are also points it controls when members trade out. As far as being able to reserve rooms, the offical documents provide that Disney is subject to the same rules as the members. Thus it cannot intentionally take hold of rooms before other members can also do so, e.g., Disney cannot lock up a room at 11 1/2 months out.

But Disney's being subject to the same reservation rules as members can itself be a serious disadvantage for members. That means Disney can reserve anything exactly 11 months out and undoubtedly do it quickly. Following rules applicabee to members, it is not required to have the identity of those who will actually end up being in the room when the reservation is made, i.e., it does not necessarily have to already have a renter before it reserves rooms. Under the rules applicable to members, Disney, which controls a lot of points, could, if it wanted to, attempt to reserve a lot of the BWV standard view studios, BLT standard rooms, AKV value and club level rooms, and VGF studios for the first week of December or Christmas week at exactly 11 months out. Likely one could argue Disney was not acting reasonably in the interest of members under its fiduciary obligations if Disney went too extreme, but it can still probably do some degree of predatory reserving and get away with it.

Based on my experience with their websites, if Disney tried to do that, I'm sure their program would end up crashing and going off-line. So we should be safe.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

DVD retains ownership of 2% to 4% of the units in each resort. There are also points it controls when members trade out. As far as being able to reserve rooms, the offical documents provide that Disney is subject to the same rules as the members. Thus it cannot intentionally take hold of rooms before other members can also do so, e.g., Disney cannot lock up a room at 11 1/2 months out.

But Disney's being subject to the same reservation rules as members can itself be a serious disadvantage for members. That means Disney can reserve anything exactly 11 months out and undoubtedly do it quickly. Following rules applicabee to members, it is not required to have the identity of those who will actually end up being in the room when the reservation is made, i.e., it does not necessarily have to already have a renter before it reserves rooms. Under the rules applicable to members, Disney, which controls a lot of points, could, if it wanted to, attempt to reserve a lot of the BWV standard view studios, BLT standard rooms, AKV value and club level rooms, and VGF studios for the first week of December or Christmas week at exactly 11 months out. Likely one could argue Disney was not acting reasonably in the interest of members under its fiduciary obligations if Disney went too extreme, but it can still probably do some degree of predatory reserving and get away with it.

What was particularly interesting I thought is that it was fairly rare to find them offering the club level villas (at least) - but I found them over Christmas the 2 years I took the time to look and the one Easter I looked at. In looking now I see they have both a value studio and a value 1Br available starting Oct 29th-Nov 2nd along with a Savanna view studio but nothing else. It actually is one area where I haven't been convinced that they follow the same rules as the rest of the owners for booking - ie a little head start on the day perhaps - but at most resorts it isn't obvious.

 

[jekjones1558]

Just wanted to state that I am in awe of the detective work that some of our DISers conduct and share. Way to go!

 

[Dean]

What would you consider it to be if there were a couple of years that Disney CRO had a 2BR concierge villa (or the split of a studio and a 1BR) at AKV to rent during the week of Christmas? It was definitely the DVC villa room. Taking under the table or just getting their allocation to rent out (but I think they'd have to be circumventing the booking system we all use in order to get that villa).

It wouldn't be that difficult for them to legitimately secure such items with a direct high speed tie in to the system. IMO using this much points for a cash rental would be doing members there a favor. If I though they were holding the villas ahead of time that were legally in the club, I wouldn't participate or would seek legal action.

 

[CarolMN]

It wouldn't be that difficult for them to legitimately secure such items with a direct high speed tie in to the system. IMO using this much points for a cash rental would be doing members there a favor. If I though they were holding the villas ahead of time that were legally in the club, I wouldn't participate or would seek legal action.

I have to agree. Those rooms go for big $$. Members who like to use points to cruise or for non-DVC resort stays should be happy they do this on occasion. If DVC sent only the less desirable seasons and villa types "in trade" for Members' non-DVC choices, those non-DVC choices would cost even more points than they already do.

Obviously, there will be members who are disappointed that they couldn't book those rooms for points. But without this system, there would be no non-DVC options for members other than exchanges like those through RCI, So for example, no cruising on points and no points stays at the DLH or PP.

 

[Dean]

I have to agree. Those rooms go for big $$. Members who like to use points to cruise or for non-DVC resort stays should be happy they do this on occasion. If DVC sent only the less desirable seasons and villa types "in trade" for Members' non-DVC choices, those non-DVC choices would cost even more points than they already do.

Obviously, there will be members who are disappointed that they couldn't book those rooms for points. But without this system, there would be no non-DVC options for members other than exchanges like those through RCI, So for example, no cruising on points and no points stays at the DLH or PP.

In addition, using for a concierge 2 BR would take up the points that would otherwise take out more like two 2BR villas otherwise.

 

[n2mm]

Yep, I go through this every November when booking my October reservation during F&W. Last year I got shut out the first night, so waited until the next day and tried again and got it and added the first day later. Always on the site at Exactly 8:00. Usually by 8:01 that first day is gone. This year I was lucky enough to get it my first try, then added 3 nights later at the end to get my 10 night reservation. I've never had to walk yet. Btw, it's just as hard to get a standard 2 bedroom because it takes that standard studio to make the 2 bedrooms. I feel like I won the lottery when I manage to get my October reservation.

 

[Andyman33]

That's why I just walk now. Only have to win that lottery once and have many tries lol

 

[pmaurer74]

Some people walk a reservations months out.

 

[mustinjourney]

Some people walk a reservations months out.

wow -- I had no idea you had to walk that far out. Almost seems like for an early December ressie you'd have to start walking in September.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have to agree. Those rooms go for big $$. Members who like to use points to cruise or for non-DVC resort stays should be happy they do this on occasion. If DVC sent only the less desirable seasons and villa types "in trade" for Members' non-DVC choices, those non-DVC choices would cost even more points than they already do.

Obviously, there will be members who are disappointed that they couldn't book those rooms for points. But without this system, there would be no non-DVC options for members other than exchanges like those through RCI, So for example, no cruising on points and no points stays at the DLH or PP.

I'm not convinced of that as most often you find the values offered in CRO along with standard and savannah views and very rarely (but as I said I've only seen it at busy DVC times where people are really scrambling to get one of the 5 rooms). If there was a larger inventory of Concierge then I could agree but with 5 lock-offs I can't. It would be just a very tiny fraction of any income to secure and rent those over the other villas. And I'd question why the values are often there too as that brings in less than the standard view or savanna view when they could just use take fewer rooms out of inventory by using standard and savannah views.

For AKV, though they have the same right to the values and concierge, because the categories are so small I tend to think they should just stay away from them. By taking values they are going to use up MORE inventory for the trade outs and they almost always have those sent to CRO. Taking the Concierge at holiday times is more or less a kick in the pants to members - IMO.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

wow -- I had no idea you had to walk that far out. Almost seems like for an early December ressie you'd have to start walking in September.

I think there are some people who think that and do that and tie up inventory for a period but I don't happen to believe it is necessity.

 

[DanenRox]

Yep, I go through this every November when booking my October reservation during F&W. Last year I got shut out the first night, so waited until the next day and tried again and got it and added the first day later. Always on the site at Exactly 8:00. Usually by 8:01 that first day is gone.

I have secured 95% of my desired reservation (not bad since it's multiple standard view rooms) and expect I will be finished tomorrow but I've never worked so hard to book rooms. Checking every 8 am and closed out every time- just as you described. I have to try to book another BWV room if possible at the 7 month mark. Would walking help at 7 mos? I don't know why I can't fully grasp this "walking" thing but I'm intent on learning how to do it because this last week has been super frustrating and time consuming.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have secured 95% of my desired reservation (not bad since it's multiple standard view rooms) and expect I will be finished tomorrow but I've never worked so hard to book rooms. Checking every 8 am and closed out every time- just as you described. I have to try to book another BWV room if possible at the 7 month mark. Would walking help at 7 mos? I don't know why I can't fully grasp this "walking" thing but I'm intent on learning how to do it because this last week has been super frustrating and time consuming.

Walking is not as workable at 7 months as at 11 months because a gap in the days available ends the walk. And for BWV it is almost certain there will be gaps. You'll likely be waitlisting - booking up at 8am at 11 months does not make 7 month openings very likely.

 

[CarolMN]

Again,let's remember that this is only an issue for standard view & Boardwalk view studio & 2 bedroom villas. All nights in October & November (so far) are still available for those booking Pool/Garden view villas (studio, 1 bedroom & 2 bedroom).

It's very probable that there will be at least some G/P villas available when the 7 month windows open.

 

[n2mm]

I have secured 95% of my desired reservation (not bad since it's multiple standard view rooms) and expect I will be finished tomorrow but I've never worked so hard to book rooms. Checking every 8 am and closed out every time- just as you described. I have to try to book another BWV room if possible at the 7 month mark. Would walking help at 7 mos? I don't know why I can't fully grasp this "walking" thing but I'm intent on learning how to do it because this last week has been super frustrating and time consuming.

I've never really walked successfully.....one year I wanted a Friday checkin, but got up 2 days earlier and noticed the room was available as I was testing availability, so at exactly 8:00 I hit the button and it showed available so I selected. Thought I would book it then drop the first two days later....well I never dropped the days so that trip started on Wednesday because I couldn't let those extra days go.....that's pretty much how walking starts, but I'm a walking failure, but got a longer trip..... As for 7 months, you may luck out with the preferred pool room. But they go fast. As a general rule, standard and boardwalk view rooms go very quickly, and one bedrooms are the easiest category to get here.

 

[DanenRox]

As always, great information from everyone. I will be pleased with a one bedroom garden/pool at 7 months so if I can get that, I'll be happy. Now back to dvcmember.com There's one elusive date I'm still hunting. Ugh!

 

[disneynutz]

Talking to a CM at BWV, cash reservations for the villas average about 20 to 25% of the occupancy. That seems really high.

 

[Brian Noble]

It depends on how many Members are using their points for internal "exchanges"---ABD, DCL, and the Disney Collection. Inventory backing all of those is turned over to CRO to monetize and pay for the trip, cruise, or hotel stay. Does DVC ever publish the rates of those uses? I think Dean used to publish the worldwide exchange traffic (to II or maybe even RCI), but can't remember.