WOW!!! 3rd Ship

[pppiglet]

Maybe they will buy Catalina Island, kick everyone off and make it their own! Hee Hee!

 

[allears]

I don't think many cruise ships, if any are currently being built in the US. It is a shame that for I suppose a number of reasons, we have priced our selves out of the industry.

I do think it's exciting to know that someday, hopefully in the not too distant future, another ship will be launched. Perhaps that will help drive the price of Disnsey crusises down, though probably only a little. They have such a big demand for their product, they just don't have to offer a lot of deals and discounts, like the lines who have multiple ships to fill do.

It will be really fun to see what enhancements, improvements and new magical touches they will add to a new ship. I do hope the over all classic design is kept. I love the old time ocean liner feel of the Disney ships, and they are so distinctive compared to most of the other ships that generally look like large white floating boxes.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

For those of you who think this news article is "cool" or who are "glad they are moving ahead," I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but...

From the article:

"We have the designs for the new ship," Walt Disney World President Al Weiss said. "It's just a matter of waiting for a favorable exchange rate."​

Translation:

"We have the designs for the new ship, but the plans are gathering dust. Although other cruise lines are ordering new ships despite the rising Euro, the top execs at Disney are unwilling to do so. But they don't mind overpaying for broadcast and cable, because that's what they really love."​

Here's more:

• DCL started a planning project in early 2001 to expand their fleet.
• In mid-2001, Disney took on substantial new debt to purchase the Fox Family Network (now ABC Family) for $5.3 billion.
• The DCL fleet expansion project calendar was put on hold by the events of 9/11, according to ships' officers on the Disney Magic in Spring 2002.
• Since 9/11, other cruise lines have taken delivery of new ships and even resumed ordering additional ships.
• The exchange rate between the US Dollar and the Euro has made European goods (including cruise ships) more expensive.
• Several times over the past year or two, there have been news articles in which Disney officials have made statements along the lines of Al Weiss's statement.
• The Euro continues to rise, and there is no reason to believe that the Dollar will strengthen substantially anytime soon.
• Although the Euro exchange rate is the official story, another plausible explanation is that Disney is still paying off a substantial debt load.
• Disney hasn't contracted with a shipyard, and DCL's fleet expansion plans are gathering dust.
• DCL may remain a 2-ship cruise line for many years to come, or Michael Eisner's eventual successor may see a DCL fleet expansion as good way to revive real growth at Disney. Only time will tell.
• There's no reason to get excited about the article.

 

[pdarrah]

I am fairly sure that prior to the 1970's the USA was a producer of luxury type ships and yachts. Then a tax was instituted that was supposed to get lots of money from the rich people who buy yachts and the "luxury" businesses that buy ships. The result was that all those rich folks and corporations took their $$$ overseas and bought their ships and yachts elsewhere. One of the advantages of being rich is that you have a lot of choice on where to spend your money! Rather than making lots of money off of rich folks in taxes, the result was regular, middle class people who worked building those ships and yachts lost their jobs.

Unfortunately, even if the tax laws have changed, we no longer have the skilled workers or shipyards or any other infrastucture for this industry. If you are going to spend millions on a boat, you probably don't want to hire a company that has never built a luxury ship before!

pdarrah

 

[LiserAnn]

If they base a ship out of Cali, will they still have a private island? I wonder if there are any islands Disney has it's eye on?

A friend of ours goes fishing for a particular type of fish down off of the 90 mile bank near the Coronado Islands in Mexico (which is very different than Coronado Island in San Diego). His upcoming trip had to be re-scheduled to another area in Mexico altogether (which means catching a different type of fish) because Disney just bought one of the Islands in the Coronado Islands area. They have made the waters all around that island off limits...to the extent a boat can't even get near it to check it out. The charter he uses said the rumor with the mexican locals is the island is going to be for the cruise line. Mexico is a very hard place to buy land, so it would have to be something worthwhile that would bring $$ to the economy (like a Disney cruise) for the Government to sell it.........It will be interesting to see what it ends up being. :

 

[smchan]

I am fairly sure that prior to the 1970's the USA was a producer of luxury type ships and yachts. Then a tax was instituted that was supposed to get lots of money from the rich people who buy yachts and the "luxury" businesses that buy ships. The result was that all those rich folks and corporations took their $$$ overseas and bought their ships and yachts elsewhere. One of the advantages of being rich is that you have a lot of choice on where to spend your money! Rather than making lots of money off of rich folks in taxes, the result was regular, middle class people who worked building those ships and yachts lost their jobs.

Perhaps you're thinking of the luxury tax that George Bush (the first one) signed into law in the early 90's? That one reportedly killed the boat building business, but I suspect that had little to do American shipyards not building cruise ships. The tax also applied to jewelry, fur coats and expensive cars. Furthermore, the boat building industry was hurt because buyers staged a boycott. It had nothing to do with these folks taking their business overseas. (Didn't matter if you bought a Ferrari or a Cadillac - you paid the tax.) Anyways, until a few years ago, the last cruise ships built in the US was back in the 50s, so this tax has nothing to do with the demise of cruise ship building in the US.

More recently, NCL's Pride of America was partially built in Mississippi having been commissioned by American Classic Voyages. ACV went bankrupt and NCL bought the unfinished ship but it was finished out overseas.

You can read more about Congress' attempt to jump start the cruise ship building industry at this link. The US knows how to build ships but according to this article, we've been too busy focused on Navy contracts to worry about building cruise ships.

Sam

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I am fairly sure that prior to the 1970's the USA was a producer of luxury type ships and yachts.

There are still luxury yachts being built in the United States for rich individuals. But comparing a yacht with a modern cruise ship is like comparing a mountain cabin with a mega-highrise building.

The S.S. Brasil and the S.S. Argentina (both launched 1958) were the last large passenger ships built in the United States. They were built as luxury ocean liners, and later became cruise ships. At around 15 thousand GRT, they were small compared to the 85 thousand GRT Disney ships. But that was the end of the passenger ship building era in the United States.

More than 40 years later, there was an unsuccessful attempt to revive the American passenger ship business. American Classic Voyages contracted with Litton Ingalls Shipbuilding of Pascagoula, Mississippi, for two modern "Project America" cruise ships, with an option for a third. Construction began, but ran behind schedule and over budget. American Classic Voyages folded, and NCL bought the hulls. NCL had the hulls towed to Germany for completion. The NCL-America Pride of America will begin service this year and the Pride of Hawaii will begin service next year. They'll be U.S.-flagged, even though primarily German-built.

See The Strange Story of the Ship that Died Twice.

 

[Donalds_best_pal]

That news story is the same old thing I have been hearing for a while. lol I got more information from my friend Tom McAlpin then that news article.

Matt

 

[pppiglet]

So if DCL has it's own island someday off of Mexico, what do you think they should or would call it? Can you think of any names?

 

[ivanova]

Logically you would think they'd sign a contract now, before the dollar-euro gets even worse. Oh well. I'm not holding my breath for a 3rd DCL ship any time soon.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Logically you would think they'd sign a contract now, before the dollar-euro gets even worse. Oh well. I'm not holding my breath for a 3rd DCL ship any time soon.

As recently as 2002, the Euro and the Dollar were at parity -- US$1 would buy €1. Now, it takes around US$1.30 to buy €1.

Without taking any other factors in account, a €400 million cruise ship that would have cost US$400 million in 2002 would now cost $520 million.

Take a look the excdange rate over the past two years at http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=EUR&to=USD&amt=1&t=2y

Why didn't Disney order new ships in 2002?

I'm not holding my breath either.

 

[LiserAnn]

And the euro keeps getting stronger and stronger. My mom is Greek, living here in America for the last 45 years and had planned to retire to Greece. Well, the euro has blown her plan out of the water because it doesn't make economic sense. And, at least in Greece, they're not happy about the euro situation because things have gotten more expensive for them to buy although their personal economic situation has stayed the same (salaries, etc) or even gotten worse and they've seen a drop in tourism because Americans aren't interesting in make their vacation costs higher to come to Europe. And even if Americans do travel to Europe, they spend less than they used to on purchases because it's so much more expensive. So, I can't see Disney forking out so much more money to build a new ship, not in Europe anyway. But then it does beg the question as to why Disney purchased that island in Mexico anyway...why make the expensive if it will many years before they'll build a new ship (if the Island really is for DCL).

Lisa

 

[ivanova]

Lisa,

Assuming the really did buy an island it could be that the opportunity was too good to pass up (i.e. dirt cheap). The thinking might be, buy the island and worse case if we don't use it we turn around and sell it. Where I doubt ships appreciate it in value over time, land almost always does appreciate.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

But then it does beg the question as to why Disney purchased that island in Mexico anyway...why make the expensive if it will many years before they'll build a new ship (if the Island really is for DCL).

The story that "Disney purchased that island in Mexico" is a rumor, at best. And it's a rumor that I personally don't believe.

There are a vast number of small islands in the Bahamas, and when DCL was formed, Disney intended to call on such an island 4 times each week. (Remember, the Wonder and Magic both originally did only 3- and 4-night cruises.) So there was availability and a need.

In contrast, there are very few islands off of Baja California, whether in the Pacific Ocean or the Gulf of California. These islands tend to be larger, and protected by the government of Mexico as ecological preserves. With steep, rocky coasts, they're not at all like Castaway Cay.

Yes, I suppose it's possible that there's an appropriate island that Disney could purchase (or more likely lease). But such an international transaction would be international news if it had already happened.

Finally, a Disney Cruise does not require a private island. The Disney Magic won't call on a private isalnd this summer, and none of the other cruise lines that operate out of California call on private islands.

Actually a private beach might make more sense than a private island. Baja California has a long, largely undeveloped coast.

 

[Mickeyhugger]

Thank you Horace Horsecollar. (Are you a Disney advisor? They should hire you! )

 

[invaderzim]

Maybe they will consider two itineraries like they have out of Florida. But instead of every other week, they could do summers in Alaska and winters in the Mexican Riviera. All they'd have to do is add retractable roofs over the pools and Topsiders (or whatever they'll call it on the new ship). That would definitely be an excuse to take cruises out of California for at least two tours!

 

[GenieDana]

Maybe they will consider two itineraries like they have out of Florida. But instead of every other week, they could do summers in Alaska and winters in the Mexican Riviera. All they'd have to do is add retractable roofs over the pools and Topsiders (or whatever they'll call it on the new ship). That would definitely be an excuse to take cruises out of California for at least two tours!

...and butress the hulls (Magic and Wonder were designed for Caribbean cruising - calmer seas, and slower speeds in rough water); and if Alaska, refit the engines with smokeless replacements...

If Disney wants a permanent presence in the Pacific, it makes more sense to build a ship for it. If the other unfounded rumor of the Magic sailing left-coast when a new ship comes on-line to replace the Caribbean market, the Magic might only sail warm-water Pacific.

 

[seaulater]

Just bumping up.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

...and butress the hulls (Magic and Wonder were designed for Caribbean cruising - calmer seas, and slower speeds in rough water); and if Alaska, refit the engines with smokeless replacements...

Are you saying that the Disney Wonder and Disney Magic somehow have hulls with thinner steel plates than other cruise ships that sail in both Caribbean and Alaska waters?

And are you saying that the diesel-electric motors in the Disney Wonder and Disney Magic are incapable of operating as cleanly as the diesel-electric motors of other cruise ships?

What is the basis for these statements?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I never read or heard anything that would lead me to believe that the Disney ships were built to lower standards, or that they are incapable of operating anywhere but the Caribbean (or other warm water). In fact, the Disney ships were built to Panamax standards so that they would not be confined.

If Disney wants a permanent presence in the Pacific, it makes more sense to build a ship for it. If the other unfounded rumor of the Magic sailing left-coast when a new ship comes on-line to replace the Caribbean market, the Magic might only sail warm-water Pacific.

It's common for cruise lines to introduce new ships in established markets such as Florida ports and to reposition older ships to newer markets like California -- where those older ships are "new." There are exceptions, such as the recent Mitsubishi-built Princess ships.

My guess is that DCL would like to be able to attract return passengers in Florida by having at least one brand new ship at Port Canaveral, and that DCL would like to expand to the West Coast with an existing ship that would be "new" to most West Coast passengers.

As far as summer DCL cruises in Alaska are concerned, it's a question of what it would take to retrofit an existing ship. I have no doubt some open areas could be enclosed and heated, including retractable covers over one or more pools. I don't think that an existing ship would require a new hull and new engines (the cost of which would be prohibitive). But I would be very interested if somebody had some authoritative information that would either substantiate GenieDana's remarks or my speculation.

 

[JimmyJackJunior]

It's too bad they wouldn't consider building it here. There are so many shipyards that have the space necessary, the people with the skills, and this country needs the work! There is enought room to build in San Pedro, Norfolk, Bath, Portsmouth, and in Alabama/Mississippi. They have already dry docked in Norfolk, so they are familiar with that ship yard. I think it's a shame that they don't try to spend the money at home. Our economy could use the teeny boost.

European shipyards really produce a far better product than anything in North American. Hope they do go there.