Would You Turn in an Illegal Immigrant?

Would you turn in an illegal immigrant

  • Yes!

  • No Way!

  • I'm not sure...


Results are only viewable after voting.
summerrluvv said:
It's hard to mind your own business when people are here illegally and are not contributing to the tax system and living 20 in a home crowding neighborhoods.


How do you know they are not contributing to the tax system? Many illegal immigrants do pay taxes and everyone in the USA is expected to pay taxes whether they are here legally or not. While illegal immigrants do not have social security numbers, they can get a tax payer ID number from the IRS.

A lot of illegal immigrants pay taxes in the hope that doing so will help them should there be immigration reform with the option of letting them stay. And of course illegal immigrants pay the same sales taxes as everyone else.
 
AllyandJack said:
It is my business. This country is our home and these people are coming here illegally. If someone entered your home illegally, wouldn't you think it was your business to report them to the police? Everything that happens here is our business. If we just let random people break random laws, we're headed down the wrong path. Would you turn in someone you know was getting credit cards under someone else's name? If your friend came to you and said lunch was on him because he got a credit card using someone else's name, would you report that or just eat the lunch?

So let me guess when you are speeding you turn yourself in?? I could argue that someone who is speeding is more of a threat to me than an illegal alien or credit card thief.

I'm not going to sit here and play the "would you" game because there are a million different scenarios and I think it all depends on the situation. I'm not going to pretend to be the moral police. I know I'm not and I've done my fair share of less than legal things.

Yes if someone I knew was doing credit card fraud I might turn them in, although I wouldn't know who to call. And yes if someone broke into my home I would call the police. If I knew someone was an illegal immigrant, no I wouldn't call. The fact is "turning in" an illegal immigrant rarely does anything so I just wouldn't bother.
 
Illegal immigrants can NOT get a legal tax ID to pay taxes. If they had the tax ID, they would be LEGAL immigrants and they would be here legally. Then, they wouldn't have to work for $4./hour with no benefits, they would be entitled to work out in the open for normal wages and have leverage to demand benefits and a better work environment.
 
summerrluvv said:
It's hard to mind your own business when people are here illegally and are not contributing to the tax system and living 20 in a home crowding neighborhoods.

How do you know they don't pay any taxes?? Unless you work for the city or the IRS, I don't see how you would know.
 

Free4Life11 said:
So let me guess when you are speeding you turn yourself in?? I could argue that someone who is speeding is more of a threat to me than an illegal alien or credit card thief.

I'm not going to sit here and play the "woulf you" game because there are a million different scenarios and I think it all depends on the situation. I'm not going to pretend to be the moral police. I know I'm not and I've done my fair share of less than legal things.

Yes if someone I knew was doing credit card fraud I might turn them in, although I wouldn't know who to call. The fact is "turning in" an illegal immigrant rarely does anything so I just wouldn't bother.


If I get caught going over the speed limit, I get a ticket and pay higher insurance. If someone calls me in for going over the speed limit, more power to them. I'll pay my ticket and suffer the consequences. It's not being the moral police.....it's knowing someone is committing a crime and doing nothing about it. That's up to you - report it or don't, but it is most certainly all of our business.
 
AllyandJack said:
Illegal immigrants can NOT get a legal tax ID to pay taxes. If they had the tax ID, they would be LEGAL immigrants and they would be here legally.

I saw a story about this on Dateline/Primetime one of those shows and they said they can get a tax ID and pay taxes when they're illegal. I'll try to find a link, maybe someone else has one.
 
I do work for a city government....I know they don't pay taxes.

I too could afford to live on a much lower salary if I didn't pay income tax...didn't have to contribute to social security....didn't have to pay for health insurance but got treatment anyways...or register my vehicle....or pay auto insurance....or pay for a driver's license every 5 years....broke my rental agreement and had 15 people living in 3 bedrooms...etc...etc...etc....
 
palmtreegirl said:
I saw a story about this on Dateline/Primetime one of those shows and they said they can get a tax ID and pay taxes when they're illegal. I'll try to find a link, maybe someone else has one.


Actually, I found it on the LA Times website.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-taxes17apr17,0,2638694.story?coll=la-home-headlines

ETA: It's a loophole. Those IDs were created for people here legally. The government chooses to ignore that to collect taxes. I commend the people who choose to do this, but as the article states, they get refunds and their tax base doesn't make up for the strain on society.

The IRS, which has issued more than 9.2 million tax identification numbers since 1996, does not ask whether immigrants are legal. "Our job is to make sure that everyone who earns income within our borders pays the proper amount of taxes, even if they may not be working here legally," IRS Commissioner Mark W. Everson said in an e-mail.

How much illegal immigrants pay into the system is part of a larger debate over whether they are a drain or a benefit to the U.S. economy. In addition to sales taxes, many pay income taxes, and, in some cases, property taxes. But numerous studies have shown that their presence is a financial strain on hospitals, schools and local services.
 
Not the story I saw but I found another link-

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/14/politics/main549153.shtml

Here Illegally, but Choosing to Pay Taxes
Some undocumented workers hope that by establishing a record of their time in the United States, it will be easier to gain citizenship later.

By Anna Gorman
Times Staff Writer

April 17, 2006

They may be here illegally, but tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants are expected to abide by Uncle Sam's rules by filing tax returns — with the hope of someday becoming U.S. citizens.

Though there is no way of knowing how many people are filing taxes in response to the national debate on immigration, Southern California tax preparers are seeing a steady stream of clients eager to be on record as taxpayers.

"There has definitely been an increase," said Noemi Munoz, a senior tax advisor at H&R Block in Los Angeles. "After whatever they've heard on TV, I guess that's why they want to file taxes."

Some illegal immigrants have long paid taxes through special identification numbers issued by the Internal Revenue Service for people who are not eligible for Social Security numbers — whether out of a sense of duty or hope for eventual citizenship.

But now that the U.S. Senate is considering a broad proposal that could lead to citizenship for migrants who have lived here for at least two years, there is a greater incentive to file a tax return. Some are pulling out their W-2s and heading to the nearest tax office — not just to pay this year's bill but to catch up on back taxes. In interviews, many said they wanted to prove how long they had lived in the United States and that they would be good citizens.

"It's important for all of us to pay our taxes, to have proof that we are working in this country," said Efrain Santa Cruz, 44, an illegal immigrant from Mexico who recently filed his return, "so someday maybe they will give us papers."

Illegal immigrants often live in an underground cash economy and don't have a paper trail establishing their presence, experts said.

"Proving that you have been here is sometimes a challenging task," said Harry Pachon, president of USC's Tomas Rivera Policy Institute, a Latino think tank. "As people start thinking there is a chance for legalization … they are going to be much more conscious of that."

Illegal immigrants can file taxes by applying for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, or ITIN, designed for foreigners living here legally but now widely used by illegal immigrants. Last year, the Internal Revenue Service issued an estimated 1.2 million tax identification numbers — the vast majority of which ended up on tax returns, up from roughly 838,000 issued in 2004.

The IRS, which has issued more than 9.2 million tax identification numbers since 1996, does not ask whether immigrants are legal. "Our job is to make sure that everyone who earns income within our borders pays the proper amount of taxes, even if they may not be working here legally," IRS Commissioner Mark W. Everson said in an e-mail.

How much illegal immigrants pay into the system is part of a larger debate over whether they are a drain or a benefit to the U.S. economy. In addition to sales taxes, many pay income taxes, and, in some cases, property taxes. But numerous studies have shown that their presence is a financial strain on hospitals, schools and local services.

Opponents of illegal immigration said offering illegal immigrants taxpayer identification numbers highlights the federal government's contradictory approach in dealing with the problem. Immigrants who cannot get a Social Security number to work legally can get a taxpayer ID number to pay taxes.

"The issuing of these numbers to people who are here illegally is simply helping them to remain and work in this country, which is part of the federal government's schizophrenia when it comes to illegal immigration," said Rick Oltman, Western field director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

Opponents said the amount of money paid by illegal immigrants in taxes hardly makes up for what they cost this country in services.

The process of paying taxes, for illegal immigrants, essentially involves owning up to their undocumented status. Many have gotten jobs with fake Social Security numbers. Their employers make deductions based on those numbers. So these immigrants file returns using legitimate taxpayer ID numbers, but the tax preparer must attach a W-2 showing the fake Social Security number so that the IRS knows how much is due or owed, according to H&R Block tax advisors.

When taxpayer ID numbers were first issued, tax preparers said, illegal immigrants were afraid to apply. But now there is less fear because tax preparers assure them that the IRS is prohibited from reporting the data to immigration authorities.

Many illegal immigrants earn so little that they don't owe any income taxes. If they support children or parents in the U.S. or in Mexico, they can claim them as dependents, further reducing their taxable income. Some are entitled to refunds.

Illegal immigrants who are paid under the table have not had any taxes withheld by their employers, so they may owe the government money. But since there is no record of how much they earned, they may underreport their income.

On the other hand, many illegal immigrants have Social Security taxes withheld from their paychecks but are not entitled to collect any benefits. The Social Security Administration said $7 billion in payroll taxes had been credited to its trust fund from Social Security numbers that were either invalid or didn't match names in the agency's records. Undocumented workers are believed to make up a large portion of these contributors.

Income tax businesses are catering to this burgeoning clientele.

Outside H&R Block on Western Avenue in Los Angeles, signs read in Spanish, "Hablamos taxes" (We speak taxes) and "Solicita tu ITIN aqui" (Apply for your ITIN here).

Inside the office last week, Carmelo Santiago Hernandez signed his tax return and learned he would receive a $15 refund. Hernandez, an illegal immigrant, arrived from Mexico four years ago and works as a janitor. Last year, he said he earned just over $11,000. He paid about $700 toward Social Security and $160 to Medicare.

Hernandez, 28, decided to apply for an ITIN and file taxes after an uncle suggested it might increase his chances to become a legal resident someday. "You never lose hope," said Hernandez, who is married with three children.

Others say they are bound by a sense of duty.

Luis Vazquez, 26, was paid under the table as a day laborer most of last year. Last week, he arrived at H&R Block with documentation that he had earned about $3,500 — not much, he said, but he still wanted to comply with tax laws. He didn't have the means to pay the government anything, so he was relieved to discover he was owed a refund: $4.

"I want to do things how they should be done," said Vazquez, who crossed the border two years ago. "I'm here. The least I can do is demonstrate that I have good intentions … that I came to work."

Unlike Hernandez and Vazquez, who both filed for the first time this year, Santa Cruz, a dishwasher, has been filing tax returns for nearly a decade. He earned about $11,600 last year, paying roughly $720 toward Social Security and $170 to Medicare. He claimed his three children here as dependents and will receive a refund of about $890.

"Every year I have done them, and this year I did them too," he said. "I have the hope that by paying taxes, I will have the right to become legal."
 
AllyandJack said:
If I get caught going over the speed limit, I get a ticket and pay higher insurance. If someone calls me in for going over the speed limit, more power to them. I'll pay my ticket and suffer the consequences. It's not being the moral police.....it's knowing someone is committing a crime and doing nothing about it. That's up to you - report it or don't, but it is most certainly all of our business.

Oh come on not all crimes have the same severity. Murder and illegal immigrant are not the same in my eyes. I don't think there's anyone who has never broken the law. It's just not efficient for citizens to report anything and everything; I certainly don't want to tie up our police with reporting nonsense "crimes." I suppose if it makes you feel better, report them all you want. Just know that odds are it won't make any difference.
 
No I would not. I've known of some who were hard workers just supporting families. I'm not going to turn them in and ruin their lives because our country couldn't get a grip on this problem. I don't blame the individual, if I was in a poor country and could make a better life for my family here, I'd come here too. Luckily, I don't have that problem.

I blame the government for not cracking down on the businesses who are hiring them.
 
Free4Life11 said:
Oh come on not all crimes have the same severity. Murder and illegal immigrant are not the same in my eyes. I don't think there's anyone who has never broken the law. It's just not efficient for citizens to report anything and everything; I certainly don't want to tie up our police with reporting nonsense "crimes." I suppose if it makes you feel better, report them all you want. Just know that odds are it won't make any difference.


I never equated an illegal immigrant to a murderer. It's definitely not the same thing.
 
AllyandJack said:
Illegal immigrants can NOT get a legal tax ID to pay taxes. If they had the tax ID, they would be LEGAL immigrants and they would be here legally. Then, they wouldn't have to work for $4./hour with no benefits, they would be entitled to work out in the open for normal wages and have leverage to demand benefits and a better work environment.

YES, they can get a legal tax ID and they do. A tax ID is simply that---an ID to let you pay taxes. It is not a resident permit or a work permit. A dear friend of mine is here on an expired visa and I helped him to get the tax ID paperwork from the IRS so that he could pay taxes. He filled it out and a few weeks later the tax ID arrived, no questions asked.

And before anyone flames me about having a friend who is here illegally, I did not help him come to the USA and I did not know he was here illegally until long after I met him. He is someone who loves America and what we stand for and I wish him the very best. I have no regrets about helping someone obey the tax laws of this country.
 
I said no I wouldn't, but if they did not behave properly I would turn them in with no regrets. I figure we all came here as immigrants at one point so I am not one to judge them. I would hope they are trying to become legal though.
 
AllyandJack said:
I never equated an illegal immigrant to a murderer. It's definitely not the same thing.

My point was, not all crimes are the same and I do not feel an obligation to make a phone call every time I see someone breaking the law.
 
LukenDC said:
YES, they can get a legal tax ID and they do. A tax ID is simply that---an ID to let you pay taxes. It is not a resident permit or a work permit. A dear friend of mine is here on an expired visa and I helped him to get the tax ID paperwork from the IRS so that he could pay taxes. He filled it out and a few weeks later the tax ID arrived, no questions asked.

And before anyone flames me about having a friend who is here illegally, I did not help him come to the USA and I did not know he was here illegally until long after I met him. He is someone who loves America and what we stand for and I wish him the very best. I have no regrets about helping someone obey the tax laws of this country.


That's right....no questions asked. As the article states, the government doesn't care if the worker is here legally or illegally - even though the Tax ID was created for LEGAL workers. The government doesn't care. They should change the law instead of breaking it.
 
For what it's worth, in my mind, if someone is here with a Tax ID, they are here "legally". I think the government should stop issuing Tax IDs to people here illegally - in fact, it's a bit scary that they don't do any sort of check on someone coming into the country, but if they have paperwork, to me, they're here legally.

I guess that's the point I was trying to make and it didn't come out right until I had a chance to think about it. :)
 
AllyandJack said:
I think the government should stop issuing Tax IDs to people here illegally

But I thought that was one of the complaints -- that illegals don't pay taxes. Odds are most illegals are going to be here for a while, so they might as well pay taxes while they're here.
 
Free4Life11 said:
But I thought that was one of the complaints -- that illegals don't pay taxes. Odds are most illegals are going to be here for a while, so they might as well pay taxes while they're here.


I would agree, but my problem is that they just hand them out. There is no check of who they are. Other countries require medical tests and employer sponsors and criminal background checks and we just hand out Tax IDs so we can collect some money from people and we have no idea who they are. It's more of a security thing. It's a bit worrisome that they just hand out paperwork allowing people to come here and stay here.
 
I think you are confusing immigration and IRS. The two agencies have little to do with eachother. All legal citizens have a tax ID (their SS#) but having a tax ID doesn't necessarily make you a legal citizen, it's just a number the IRS uses to process your return. Immigration still requires sponsors, medical, etc. to become a legal citizen.

Now why the two agencies don't communicate is another story. The IRS could furnish a list of people who have requested an ITIN to immigration, who could then check their records. Now whether that is legal or not I don't know.
 


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