Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[bobbiwoz]

I have drafted a letter to Terri Schulz and will mail it. I want her to know how I feel about the whole episode. We wrote her before, we spoke to someone in her office, and if nothing else, this is our follow up. We are happy the 2020 points are along the line of 2019, and we hope that future changes will be better understood by members to be in their interests.

Everyone has to decide what they will do. I need to get it off my chest! ( I keep telling them about how I feel about walking!)

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I cannot thank the folks on this thread enough, especially Zavandor, and I do credit this thread with the rollback to 2019 point charts. I am being a bit dramatic, but this is a real win for the individual and how important it is for individuals to speak up in a thoughtful and respectful way. On the flip side, it took an individual within the Disney corporation to care enough to listen. I know it is in Disney's interest to listen, but still. This also does reaffirm my respect for Disney to some extent, that they are willing to revisit and reassess decisions. I hope Disney realizes the value of the member community in acting as a check and balance. The member community is not in an antagonistic relationship with dvc but is similarly interested in protecting the product. Thank you again, Zavandor.

 

[DisneyisaBLAST]

I'm glad they've reversed the changes to the 2020 point chart. The whole reallocation ordeal, along with changes to the resale market, has made me reluctant to recommend DVC to friends and family. I no longer feel confident about the product they are selling where I can comfortably recommend it. I'm also reconsidering adding on points in the future.

This was a blatant cash grab. I wish they would make changes to the point charts consistent with the demand of specific room types. Lowering 'value' room costs and raising 1BRs were about the dumbest things they could have done from a demand perspective. I echo those calling for much more transparency in this process in the future. There's no reason members should be in the dark about this sort of thing. I hope we don't find ourselves in a similar situation for 2021.

 

[DizneyLizzy]

As a relatively recent buyer and a studio/1 bedroom family, I’ve been following along closely. Just wanted to echo the words of appreciation for the people who voiced their/our concerns to DVC.

Also big props to the DVC disboards
community as a whole for being the best one on here! Ive generally found the discussions here in the DVC threads to be the most respectful and helpful on the DIS.

 

[nkosiek]

Whoever will be at the World when they hold the annual meeting needs to bring this situation up. I am sure management will be hoping this is forgotten by then but I sure hope anyone down there brings this up if possible.

I am a studio user and this was going to hurt me personally and so I was mad about that. That said I am okay with studios going up, especially during certain seasons. We have been able to move to BVC from BLT at 7 months for the summer and my in-laws have been able to book standard BLT studios during the same period at 7 months

I I would be okay with a reallocation where studios go up but make it nuanced to when they are MOST in demand. I think DVCs seasons were set to mirror WDEs and that now needs to change if we are talking about balancing demand. Summer has been a slower time for DVC for at least the 6 years I have been a member, so why did points go up then?

Also, when is demand calculated? Is it at 11 months, 7 months, 3 months out? Is demand based on filling a resort when it is only open to Home Resort booking? I know timeshsres are suppose to operate at al.ost 100% booking, but when Disney talks about demand, when and to whom are they referring? I see plenty of people complaining they can't switch at certain times 7 months out. Is that demand or should that be more of a , "Oh well, you don't own there, suck it up"? People complain they can't book certain things at 5 months, again, demand or you just don't understand how the system works?

These are just some things I would like to see addressed/answered but ad Dean has rightly pointed out, they aren't too open with the members.

 

[Wakey]

I think if you book studios, you've got to expect them to go up 1 or 2 points with the 1 beds being reduced. That would be balancing demand, and it may happen.
Also if you go October to December, save Xmas week when the points are very high and demand seems to slow, you could expect that season to become a bit more expensive and another season (probably summer) to go down a bit.
Experienced DVC owners wouldn't have a problem with this from a points balancing exercise I don't think- as long as every point up was met with one down.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

If that had been in the paperwork for the last 26 years, and that is what the guides clearly communicated to all potential buyers, we may not have been happy, but most of us would have accepted this as a reality and within what was communicated to us.

Agreed. There's a difference between being unhappy with them changing things to our detriment but that are within their right vs a change that is questionable when reasonably considered where the largest benefactor is not whom it is written that they are supposed to watch out for but rather themselves.

Either way it doesn't paint them very well. Whether it was the right thing done poorly or the wrong thing either way the questions will still remain. My hope, something we've addressed previously but hasn't happened, is they'll be more proactive and forthcoming on changes in general whether it be refurbishment planning, reallocation or valet parking type issues.

That is something that is to be hoped for. I did feel we got a more upfront communication style after the removal of Jim Lewis starting with their "fixer" Claire Bilby and that it was somewhat continued since that time. The present management gave all appearances of doing a 180 so we'll see if that is something they take away from this episode.

 

[JGINPL]

Very good job everyone. I'm a recent resale buyer from last year. And it was very interesting keeping up on all of this. I suggest that people that have any research or any of their original POS they share them all with the group to keep as many people as possible with the information for any future changes that might take place.

Thank you again everyone!

 

[aoconnor]

Outstanding outcome. Thank you to all those who took the time to contact people at Disney and raise our collective concerns.

Hopefully for the 2021 charts they are more transparent about the data driving the adjustments, even if we don't like the outcome.

 

[skier_pete]

I think if you book studios, you've got to expect them to go up 1 or 2 points with the 1 beds being reduced. That would be balancing demand, and it may happen.
Also if you go October to December, save Xmas week when the points are very high and demand seems to slow, you could expect that season to become a bit more expensive and another season (probably summer) to go down a bit.
Experienced DVC owners wouldn't have a problem with this from a points balancing exercise I don't think- as long as every point up was met with one down.

Yes - neither of these would benefit me (since we like to travel in the fall and only book studios) but I am in agreement, if they balanced the seasons a little more and also raised studios while reducing 1-beds I would not be thrilled but I would not suspect any devious plan in doing that, because the data shows that this is the appropriate. (We probably shouldn't be proposing these ideas though.)

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

. (We probably shouldn't be proposing these ideas though.)

However if they don't already recognize that then their "data gathering" can't really be based on much.

 

[nkosiek]

Yes - neither of these would benefit me (since we like to travel in the fall and only book studios) but I am in agreement, if they balanced the seasons a little more and also raised studios while reducing 1-beds I would not be thrilled but I would not suspect any devious plan in doing that, because the data shows that this is the appropriate. (We probably shouldn't be proposing these ideas though.)

In your mind, since you've done the research, could they realistically lower studios during the summer for many properties or no? I know they should up them from say September, through the end of December, but just wondering what you thought about the fact that most were also raised during the summer.

 

[freediverdude]

I am surprised they back pedaled this quickly. The speed of it may have had to do with the first 2020 reservations being able to be made today? Is it? But yes they had to make a decision fast if they wanted to roll it back without affecting any reservations in the system.

I bet it went down something like, a person even higher up saying "has this happened before? Are we allowed to do this?" And the others saying "yes we think we are allowed, but we have never done it before on this scale." And the higher up person saying "well we are getting a lot of complaints and discussions about going to arbitration about it, let's roll it back for now and analyze more and make more gradual changes in the future."

But, all of this doesn't answer the question of why it was done in the first place, which I would be very curious about.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I am fine with them adjusting things but only if overall points in the system remain the same. I am not onboard with point inflation.

 

[skier_pete]

In your mind, since you've done the research, could they realistically lower studios during the summer for many properties or no? I know they should up them from say September, through the end of December, but just wondering what you thought about the fact that most were also raised during the summer.

They don't fill up as fast in the summer either - but of course most studios everywhere fill up shortly after the 7 month mark.

Anyways, I'm just saying that that shift (points lowered is summer and raised in fall) are within the rules and ones that I believe we ALL agree on - and certainly there would be no talk of what legal action

 

[Marionnette]

I am surprised they back pedaled this quickly. The speed of it may have had to do with the first 2020 reservations being able to be made today? Is it? But yes they had to make a decision fast if they wanted to roll it back without affecting any reservations in the system.

I bet it went down something like, a person even higher up saying "has this happened before? Are we allowed to do this?" And the others saying "yes we think we are allowed, but we have never done it before on this scale." And the higher up person saying "well we are getting a lot of complaints and discussions about going to arbitration about it, let's roll it back for now and analyze more and make more gradual changes in the future."

But, all of this doesn't answer the question of why it was done in the first place, which I would be very curious about.

I'm in total agreement with this. I don't regard the reversal of the points charts to be so much a 180 as it is a retreat and regroup move. They had too little time to assess their position before that first 2020 reservation could be made, so they rolled the charts back to 2019 levels. I have no doubt that come Monday, they will be sitting around a boardroom table with legal representatives to take a hard look at where they can and cannot make changes. The 2021 charts will undoubtedly be changed compared to 2020. But this time, they will make sure they have all of their ducks in a row (Donald, Daisy, Huey, Dewey, Louie and the rest).

A huge THANK YOU to all of those who worked so tirelessly to get answers. Round #1 goes to you! Let's hope that there isn't a Round #2.

 

[nkosiek]

They don't fill up as fast in the summer either - but of course most studios everywhere fill up shortly after the 7 day mark.

I'll assume you mean 7 month, not day. So this points to another question: that means they are filling up when anyone across the "club" can get them, not necessarily those who own there. Does DVC have to consider cross-property demand versus just same property?

 

[Dean]

That is something that is to be hoped for. I did feel we got a more upfront communication style after the removal of Jim Lewis starting with their "fixer" Claire Bilby and that it was somewhat continued since that time. The present management gave all appearances of doing a 180 so we'll see if that is something they take away from this episode.

I don't recall any good examples of being proactive in terms of communication. I recall a number of examples the other way including at least 3 refurbishment issues (BWV BW view & 2 AKV include Concierge) plus the valet parking and 2010/11 reallocation. As I've said a number of times over the last few years, I feel they would be better off if they did so but were firm in their commitment.

 

[skier_pete]

I'll assume you mean 7 month, not day. So this points to another question: that means they are filling up when anyone across the "club" can get them, not necessarily those who own there. Does DVC have to consider cross-property demand versus just same property?

Yup month - I fixed it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I’v been following this thread from the beginning and just wanted to thank everyone for their knowledge, wisdom, resolve, and hard work. Looks like it paid off. I especially want to acknowledge and thank:
Zavandor
crvetter
Skier_pete
Dean
tjkraz
miTnosnhor
mustinjourney
Webmasterdoc

To name a few.
Thank you!!!

I've not been following this thread, just came across it. Thank you all! Great job!