Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[twinklebug]

My guess is that resale prices at the new resorts will crash, Disney will ROFR them at a huge discount, then sell them at their new inflated price.

Bill

This is my guess too.
I'm also wondering what this will do to the image of DVC overall. Clearly the new resorts will take on the impression that they are the cheap seats into DVC to those who watch the resale market and think people have been buying low (not understanding what ROFR means), but how far will that carry? Will it tarnish that Resort as a whole? Will it tarnish DVC as a whole? If so, what will Disney do about it?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This is my guess too.
I'm also wondering what this will do to the image of DVC overall. Clearly the new resorts will take on the impression that they are the cheap seats into DVC to those who watch the resale market and think people have been buying low (not understanding what ROFR means), but how far will that carry? Will it tarnish that Resort as a whole? Will it tarnish DVC as a whole? If so, what will Disney do about it?

I don't think there's a possibility of them crashing although I do suspect the Legacy 14 will hold up far better. It'll be a Disney resort onsite and with Disney's huge penchant for price increases it'll have value in locking in some savings. It will just be an eventual leveling out of the economic benefit of the DVC room there that may be restricted only to that 1 location should the CM information be correct. And at the point of resale it would already be adjusted for the restricted resale aspect so when that buyer went to sell it wouldn't be such a hit. Unless it's a dog of a resort which I doubt.

 

[twinklebug]

I don't think there's a possibility of them crashing although I do suspect the Legacy 14 will hold up far better. It'll be a Disney resort onsite and with Disney's huge penchant for price increases it'll have value in locking in some savings. It will just be an eventual leveling out of the economic benefit of the DVC room there that may be restricted only to that 1 location should the CM information be correct. And at the point of resale it would already be adjusted for the restricted resale aspect so when that buyer went to sell it wouldn't be such a hit. Unless it's a dog of a resort which I doubt.

I think the new developments will be classified closer to being moderates than the magical 14. I suppose that makes sense given the locations of them. The designs certainly don't invoke a special feeling, I will be curious to see what the interiors look like as well as the pool sides. They could up their game on these simply by adding a few jaw dropping features.

 

[skier_pete]

I don't think there's a possibility of them crashing although I do suspect the Legacy 14 will hold up far better. It'll be a Disney resort onsite and with Disney's huge penchant for price increases it'll have value in locking in some savings. It will just be an eventual leveling out of the economic benefit of the DVC room there that may be restricted only to that 1 location should the CM information be correct. And at the point of resale it would already be adjusted for the restricted resale aspect so when that buyer went to sell it wouldn't be such a hit. Unless it's a dog of a resort which I doubt.

The problem really becomes - and this depends a LOT on the point per night rate - that at $200 a point DVC is not really a deal anymore. I mean, I guess slightly lower than deluxes, but your rate of return is 15-20 years. If the points at Riviera are jacked up in the 20-25 point range for a studio you could be talking near $400 per night price point.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The problem really becomes - and this depends a LOT on the point per night rate - that at $200 a point DVC is not really a deal anymore. I mean, I guess slightly lower than deluxes, but your rate of return is 15-20 years. If the points at Riviera are jacked up in the 20-25 point range for a studio you could be talking near $400 per night price point.

Yep - so buy that Riviera resale if you're going to buy it! We're really going to have a better feel for what will happen once Riviera sales info is released.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think the new developments will be classified closer to being moderates than the magical 14. I suppose that makes sense given the locations of them. The designs certainly don't invoke a special feeling, I will be curious to see what the interiors look like as well as the pool sides. They could up their game on these simply by adding a few jaw dropping features.

I like that - it's good marketing! My vote for the new moniker.

 

[wdrl]

I think the new developments will be classified closer to being moderates than the magical 14. I suppose that makes sense given the locations of them.

I'm glad that finally, after all these years, SSR is getting some love by being considered one of the "Magical 14!"

I certainly don't know what the Riviera or the Reflections will be like. But if I had to bet, I'd say they will be as "deluxe" as most anything we currently have in the DVC system.

As for locations, well, reasonable people can have different opinions as to the attractiveness of a particular location. I haven't a clue what locations Disney will pick for the DVC resorts that come after Reflections. It could decide to build a future DVC resort at the Yacht Club, or the Boardwalk Inn. Or tear down the Contemporary Resort's convention space and build a BLT-2 resort. Or finally add another DVC resort at Disneyland. And don't forget the rumors about a DVC resort being built next to the Living Seas that will have direct walk-in access to Epcot. There are some who might like those locations.

I might not know where future DVCs will be located, but we all know they won't be part of the DVC-1 Collection.

 

[skier_pete]

I think the rooms at Riviera and Reflections will be VERY DELUXE to try and make up for their not-so-preferred locations.

 

[Madame]

I think the rooms at Riviera and Reflections will be VERY DELUXE to try and make up for their not-so-preferred locations.

I don’t know that that will be enough for many. We love AKV, especially the 5 sleeping surfaces and 2 baths in a 1bd. The pool, tranquility etc. But after staying there for 3 nights last week we were relieved to head to SSR. Everything just felt so far away!

 

[DizDaD7]

I was about to say, You guys are talkin about the 2 new ones and it not being very close, or ideal locations. But what about AKV's?

Isn't that the biggest gripe about that resort? Along with the dark drab colors and blaghness to them...?
And even though it's a 6 min. ride to AK it's 21 mins. to MK and 11 mins to HS and maybe 13 or so min.s to EP that this is what draws people away from this resort...

Now I know I'm in the minority here but, I kind like the idea of it kinda off the beaten path...Because once I return It's also like a vacation from a vacation...And the CM's there are truly the best.

At least with the new ones they will have other modes of transportation rather than only the Buses...(Which I actually like ) They'll have at the very least, a boatride, and the gondola system...

 

[RRB]

Finally we got the last piece of the puzzle, everything is clear now.
To make the new resale restrictions work, they'll have to create a new exchange system. Currently, the 14 LegacyDVC resorts exchange freely at 7 months, the only limit being room availability. New resorts will not be part of the same club anymore. There will have to be a regulated exchange system between them so they can give access to that new system only to whoever they want (i.e. only direct buyers and older grandfathered members). But such a system to work needs points to be deposited so members can start exchanging reservations between the clubs. Disney could provide those, keeping ownership of many hundred thousand points. But why should they, when there is a method to create points out of thin air? Every time a lockoff will be booked as studio + 1BR, the excess points could go into the exchange system.
They weren't after the breakage inventory, that is peanuts, they were after a way to make the new exchange system work.

I called and spoke to my salesperson (Doug Rapp) today and asked a few questions.
1) regarding "previous DVC direct buyers" and booking the 2 new resorts - the booking process will not change at all (according to Doug). The new resorts will be listed on the DVC website just like the current 14 resorts and you can click to check availability and can book online or by phone just like the current 14, no complicated booking procedure.
2) confirmed the Jan 19 change to the restrictions of resale owners but emphasized two things. First, must have closed the resale contract by 1/19 (no pending sales or being under contract will meet the criteria) and secondly, DVC direct sales of the sold out legacy resorts (at the really high prices) will not carry any restrictions.
3) There is an in-house DVC meeting on Friday to discuss the 2020 re-allocation point issue. He does not know what the purpose of the meeting is for, maybe just an explanation to the sales force on the subject. Doug said that he has not personally heard any negativity yet about the re-allocation.
4) Doug had no idea when point costs, booking dates or other information about the Riviera Resort would be available

 

[aoconnor]

I called and spoke to my salesperson (Doug Rapp) today and asked a few questions.
1) regarding "previous DVC direct buyers" and booking the 2 new resorts - the booking process will not change at all (according to Doug). The new resorts will be listed on the DVC website just like the current 14 resorts and you can click to check availability and can book online or by phone just like the current 14, no complicated booking procedure.
2) confirmed the Jan 19 change to the restrictions of resale owners but emphasized two things. First, must have closed the resale contract by 1/19 (no pending sales or being under contract will meet the criteria) and secondly, DVC direct sales of the sold out legacy resorts (at the really high prices) will not carry any restrictions.
3) There is an in-house DVC meeting on Friday to discuss the 2020 re-allocation point issue. He does not know what the purpose of the meeting is for, maybe just an explanation to the sales force on the subject. Doug said that he has not personally heard any negativity yet about the re-allocation.

Guides are notorious for giving misinformation, whether purposeful or out of ignorance. #2 is not true, it was confirmed by Disney to the major resale companies that the contracts have to be submitted to ROFR by that date, not closed. It's not surprising that a guide would mislead about that to scare people away from resale (which is the whole intent of this new restriction to begin with).

As for #1 I highly doubt that salespeople have any idea how the yet-to-be-announced second exchange will work.

 

[skier_pete]

I was about to say, You guys are talkin about the 2 new ones and it not being very close, or ideal locations. But what about AKV's?

Isn't that the biggest gripe about that resort? Along with the dark drab colors and blaghness to them...?
And even though it's a 6 min. ride to AK it's 21 mins. to MK and 11 mins to HS and maybe 13 or so min.s to EP that this is what draws people away from this resort....

I love AKV - and I own there and I love staying there, and I am fine with booking there at busy times. I don't mind MOST of the bus rides - though it IS too long to MK. That said, I would probably consider it differently if I knew I could ONLY book at AKV EVER. I think Riviera will not be as bad as AKV because of the gondola, but honestly Reflections will be. Sure it will be fairly quick to MK, but Epcot, DHS and AK will be long - and that's if they don't share buses, which they might well do.

3) There is an in-house DVC meeting on Friday to discuss the 2020 re-allocation point issue. He does not know what the purpose of the meeting is for, maybe just an explanation to the sales force on the subject. Doug said that he has not personally heard any negativity yet about the re-allocation.

Did you point him at this thread or bring up the issues we are seeing? Though I wouldn't be surprised if 99.9% of membership has no clue about the re-allocation and therefore of course has no complaints.

 

[RRB]

Guides are notorious for giving misinformation, whether purposeful or out of ignorance. #2 is not true, it was confirmed by Disney to the major resale companies that the contracts have to be submitted to ROFR by that date, not closed. It's not surprising that a guide would mislead about that to scare people away from resale (which is the whole intent of this new restriction to begin with).

As for #1 I highly doubt that salespeople have any idea how the yet-to-be-announced second exchange will work.

If this is true, it's pretty bad that the front line of DVC representation is either unknowing or falsely reporting information.

 

[RRB]

I love AKV - and I own there and I love staying there, and I am fine with booking there at busy times. I don't mind MOST of the bus rides - though it IS too long to MK. That said, I would probably consider it differently if I knew I could ONLY book at AKV EVER. I think Riviera will not be as bad as AKV because of the gondola, but honestly Reflections will be. Sure it will be fairly quick to MK, but Epcot, DHS and AK will be long - and that's if they don't share buses, which they might well do.



Did you point him at this thread or bring up the issues we are seeing? Though I wouldn't be surprised if 99.9% of membership has no clue about the re-allocation and therefore of course has no complaints.

Yes I did. He said that "forums" are notorious for speculation and incorrect information. I agree with you that 99.9% of members has no clue about this issue. What are there, 200,000 members or so? How many are writing in on this forum?

 

[OKW Lover]

4) Dough had no idea when point costs, booking dates or other information about the Riviera Resort would be available

Until the resort has been declared for sale none of this information can be released.

 

[skier_pete]

Until the resort has been declared for sale none of this information can be released.

IF the resort is really opening in the fall - we can expect to see this going to sale in maybe March-April, right? CCV is 86% declared, so it's not like they have to hold back on Riviera to get that sold out. I think this news coming out indicates we are not far away from hearing when it's going on sale.

 

[aoconnor]

IF the resort is really opening in the fall - we can expect to see this going to sale in maybe March-April, right? CCV is 86% declared, so it's not like they have to hold back on Riviera to get that sold out. I think this news coming out indicates we are not far away from hearing when it's going on sale.

I believe the resort is actually only 65% sold, but 86% has been declared (per today's DVC News article). They said it's on track to sell out in about 8 months.

Copper Creek went on sale just over 4 months before its opening date. With Riviera opening in "fall" it's hard to say- Disney tends to be liberal with those descriptions, i.e. some things in the recent past have opened in "fall" in late November/ early December. Theoretically we could be 6 months away from info on Riviera, though I'm hoping it's much sooner

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

2) confirmed the Jan 19 change to the restrictions of resale owners but emphasized two things. First, must have closed the resale contract by 1/19 (no pending sales or being under contract will meet the criteria) and secondly, DVC direct sales of the sold out legacy resorts (at the really high prices) will not carry any restrictions.

They tried this with the last change in resale restrictions and there was push back even from people who weren't buying. Then they reversed. If they've already forgotten that it's pretty sad. But I'd hope it's a misunderstanding he has. In the grand scheme of things it's not a ton of contracts and there's got to be some point at which they aren't completely scummy about this change.

I love AKV - and I own there and I love staying there, and I am fine with booking there at busy times. I don't mind MOST of the bus rides - though it IS too long to MK. That said, I would probably consider it differently if I knew I could ONLY book at AKV EVER. I think Riviera will not be as bad as AKV because of the gondola, but honestly Reflections will be. Sure it will be fairly quick to MK, but Epcot, DHS and AK will be long - and that's if they don't share buses, which they might well do.



Did you point him at this thread or bring up the issues we are seeing? Though I wouldn't be surprised if 99.9% of membership has no clue about the re-allocation and therefore of course has no complaints.

Reflections will actually be a pretty short bus ride to both Epcot and DHS. Not quite as centrally located as OKW and SSR but still pretty close to those those two. And of course MK.

 

[ckb_nc]

I think the rooms at Riviera and Reflections will be VERY DELUXE to try and make up for their not-so-preferred locations.

That's what I was told in October - very high end.