Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[Dean]

Just a thought but is it possible that once Disney creates this new trading company that they could lure current owners to join it and effectively leave the current club? Obviously they need a significant number of us on board to trade with Riviera because Disney doesn’t own enough of the current resorts to effectively allow Riviera owners to trade out. They need our points in order to facilitate trades if Riviera isn’t part of the original trading company. However if they really want to kill the resale market could they force us to choose between trading options. IE we’d leave the current club to join this new “VIP” club? I’m just curious how inventory will work with essentially 2 clubs accessing inventory. Could Disney do something like this or does the POS for the multi site prevent them from taking owners out of the current club without it totally being dissolved?

I don't think they can annex the old points they own for the new system but they can make them qualified without the restrictions. They could also allow owners to trade them in and give them points at a new resort in exchange.

 

[zavandor]

Does anyone know how many points have been declared for the THV at SSR? I have only an older POS, so THV weren't declared yet. Also, I couldn't find the original points charts. Thanks

 

[wdrl]

The 60 Treehouse Villas brought about 905,250 points into the SSR Condo Association.

 

[zavandor]

The 60 Treehouse Villas brought about 905,250 points into the SSR Condo Association.

Thanks a lot!

 

[bobbiwoz]

A person from Terry Schultz office called and frankly stated that new points cannot be added and none were added to the total points of and DVC Resort.

 

[Madame]

A person from Terry Schultz office called and frankly stated that new points cannot be added and none were added to the total points of and DVC Resort.

And did you ? I think I can't talk to anyone from that office without losing my mind and my temper, so it's best that I don't...

 

[crvetter]

A person from Terry Schultz office called and frankly stated that new points cannot be added and none were added to the total points of and DVC Resort.

I would specifically ask about the maximum reallocation language. That "Is there a maximum average nightly point cost for a given Vacation Home Type?" They seemed to have suggested this when announcing resorts. I'm focusing in on this as my main complaint because it limits Lockoff Premiums (which frankly always existed) and limits the reshuffling of points. Everytime I get a call they state points can move from one Vacation Home Type to another then I let them know that isn't my question. Explain the maximum reallocation section of the POS then I get "Oh we aren't sure about that we will need to have someone else call you"

I personally think going after the lockoff premium and moving points from Vacation Home Type to another is a lost cause as it does explicitly state in some POS (for different resorts) that they can do this. The other resorts just are less direct but I think the language still allows it. However, each POS has a maximum reallocation section.

 

[Chuck S]

Well, I know that OKWs maximum reallocation allows for 230 points to book 10 days in a studio...that is assuming ALL days are equal throughout the year...no more seasons...so the maximum reallocation would, mathematically be 23 points per night for a studio at OKW. The only Studio nights over that 23 point threshold are Friday and Saturdays during Premier season, so overall they ae a long way from that. It never says that some seasons can't go above the maximum allocation, as long there are other lower pont night to offset the overall total.

 

[crvetter]

Well, I know that OKWs maximum reallocation allows for 230 points to book 10 days in a studio...that is assuming ALL days are equal throughout the year...no more seasons...so the maximum reallocation would, mathematically be 23 points per night for a studio at OKW. The only Studio nights over that 23 point threshold are Friday and Saturdays during Premier season, so overall they ae a long way from that. It never says that some seasons can't go above the maximum allocation, as long there are other lower pont night to offset the overall total.

I should note the OKW maximum reallocation is 15, 30, 40, and 65 for a studio, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, and grand villa respectively. Thus under maximum reallocation, which is dictated as all seasons and days of week treated equally you must be able to reserve a Vacation Home Type for at least that cost. This is by definition an "average" So the way I took it to mean when purchasing is that if you took the total cost to book a vacation home for the entire year then divided that by the number of days (in the Base Year of course) you couldn't exceed those dictated amounts. You can actually reserve a studio for 15 days with 230 points.

I should be clear that when I purchased direct I talked to Quality Assurance who brought in compliance (legal) and they did agree with my interpretation. Many of the resorts are not in violation however some resorts appear to be in violation. What I'm trying to get DVCMC to admit is either Quality Assurance and Compliance stated incorrectly when I purchased, I'm missing something not knowing the Base Year, or they need to correct some resort allocations.

I should not OKW is one of the resorts that is definitely in compliance if the above interpretation is correct. Of the ones I checked CCV/BRV (studios, 1 Beds), PVB (lake view), BWV (Standard and Preferred Studios) seem out of line. However, BWV is only marginally so out of line thus could be contributed to the base year issue. CCV/BRV and PVB are much more so 1/2% or more.

Also all prior charts that I checked (2010 forward for the above resorts, while applicable) seemed to follow the guidelines above. Another thing to note this also seems to be their basis for selling Guaranteed Weeks, the guaranteed weeks on average flushed out to this number.

If I'm interpreting incorrectly the worse allocation for a resort would be to set 12/24-12/31 to the limits supplied in the POS of a given resort. Then each day of the year would be set equal across all Vacation Homes while limiting the total number of Points to book the entire resort constant. I say they would set them equal because a 1 Bed can't economically go above a 2 Bed and so forth.

I really hope the interpretation I have is correct because it will help control everything in the end.

 

[crvetter]

Well, I know that OKWs maximum reallocation allows for 230 points to book 10 days in a studio...that is assuming ALL days are equal throughout the year...no more seasons...so the maximum reallocation would, mathematically be 23 points per night for a studio at OKW. The only Studio nights over that 23 point threshold are Friday and Saturdays during Premier season, so overall they ae a long way from that. It never says that some seasons can't go above the maximum allocation, as long there are other lower pont night to offset the overall total.

I want to be clear I'm saying the average nightly point cost across the entire year. Of course if this number is 15 for a given Vacation Home Type 364 nights of the year could be 1 points while 1 night could be 5,111 points. Thus to book the Home for the entire year it is still 5,475 which averages to 15 points a night.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I really hope the interpretation I have is correct because it will help control everything in the end.

Yes, it would be nice to have some assurances and at the very least know which resorts have topped out and at the very least will only be able to have points moved within the vacation home type and which still have room to have more points passed on to the studios and 1BR's.

 

[wdrl]

I should note the OKW maximum reallocation is 15, 30, 40, and 65 for a studio, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, and grand villa respectively. Thus under maximum reallocation, which is dictated as all seasons and days of week treated equally you must be able to reserve a Vacation Home Type for at least that cost. This is by definition an "average" So the way I took it to mean when purchasing is that if you took the total cost to book a vacation home for the entire year then divided that by the number of days (in the Base Year of course) you couldn't exceed those dictated amounts. You can actually reserve a studio for 15 days with 230 points.

I think you are misreading the meaning and purpose of the point numbers you cite. They don't represent the number of points allotted to a vacation home type, nor do they represent an "averaging" of costs over a year. Instead, they simply serve as a "guarantee" (that is my word and not in the POS) that each vacation home type will have at least one Use Day that can be booked at the specified point amount.

The Multi-Site Public Offering Statement states "With respect to each DVC resort, each Club Member will always be eligible to reserve least one (1) Use Day in the different Vacation Home types at his or her Home Resort, subject to availability, for the following number of Home Resort Vacation Points:" Following this statement is a chart showing every DVC resort and the number of points required to book each vacation home type at each resort. For example, it shows that OKW will always have at least one Use Day when a studio can be booked for 15 points, a one-bedroom for 30 points, a two-bedroom for 40 nights, and a Grand Villa for 65 points.

What this means is that the OKW point chart will always have at least one Use Day where a studio can be reserved for 15 points. It could have some days higher than that, but at a minimum there must be one Use Day in the year when a studio is available for 15 points or less. Of course, it also means that an OKW point chart is in compliance if it has 364 days at 16 or more points and only one day at 15 points.

If you look at the point charts for each resort, they are all in compliance, They all have at least one Season where each vacation home type can be booked for equal to or less than the number of points specified in the POS. For example, the 2020 OKW point chart shows that a night in a studio can be booked for 15 points or less throughout the Adventure and Choice Seasons, and for weekdays in the Dream and Magic Seasons.

 

[Dean]

A person from Terry Schultz office called and frankly stated that new points cannot be added and none were added to the total points of and DVC Resort.

Technically and legally that's accurate as I read it since lockoffs are counted as the whole unit. The only issue in question is wether they can rebalance across the resort, I vote yes but some disagree.

 

[Jerry5788]

Technically and legally that's accurate as I read it since lockoffs are counted as the whole unit. The only issue in question is wether they can rebalance across the resort, I vote yes but some disagree.

Agreed

 

[zavandor]

Technically and legally that's accurate as I read it since lockoffs are counted as the whole unit. The only issue in question is wether they can rebalance across the resort, I vote yes but some disagree.

It is clear that the lockoff units are counted only as the whole unit in DVC calculations. There is a question about the legitimacy of this too.

 

[crvetter]

I think you are misreading the meaning and purpose of the point numbers you cite. They don't represent the number of points allotted to a vacation home type, nor do they represent an "averaging" of costs over a year. Instead, they simply serve as a "guarantee" (that is my word and not in the POS) that each vacation home type will have at least one Use Day that can be booked at the specified point amount.

The Multi-Site Public Offering Statement states "With respect to each DVC resort, each Club Member will always be eligible to reserve least one (1) Use Day in the different Vacation Home types at his or her Home Resort, subject to availability, for the following number of Home Resort Vacation Points:" Following this statement is a chart showing every DVC resort and the number of points required to book each vacation home type at each resort. For example, it shows that OKW will always have at least one Use Day when a studio can be booked for 15 points, a one-bedroom for 30 points, a two-bedroom for 40 nights, and a Grand Villa for 65 points.

What this means is that the OKW point chart will always have at least one Use Day where a studio can be reserved for 15 points. It could have some days higher than that, but at a minimum there must be one Use Day in the year when a studio is available for 15 points or less. Of course, it also means that an OKW point chart is in compliance if it has 364 days at 16 or more points and only one day at 15 points.

If you look at the point charts for each resort, they are all in compliance, They all have at least one Season where each vacation home type can be booked for equal to or less than the number of points specified in the POS. For example, the 2020 OKW point chart shows that a night in a studio can be booked for 15 points or less throughout the Adventure and Choice Seasons, and for weekdays in the Dream and Magic Seasons.

There would be little use to add that section in there if it was meant to define a single day only. Look at the case where they could in theory set for the Grand Floridian at 500 points a night for a studio then define only use day to be the limit defined in Grand Floridian's POS. They could do that over X years. However, when I ask this exact scenario to Compliance and Contract they admit they aren't really sure if the maximum reallocation language really allows this. It just is odd to me that it is something they can't give a definitive answer on. Based on your reading I would assume you say yes; however, DVC still can't confirm if it be allowed. Either they don't want to because it will scare off people or they haven't even thought about the implications yet.

Also I should not plenty of the DVC news sits have always interpreted the maximum reallocation as exactly my interpretation when looking at the POS for a resort before officially releasing the Point Charts. Even the original POS for hints at it this way.

 

[Jerry5788]

There would be little use to add that section in there if it was meant to define a single day only. Look at the case where they could in theory set for the Grand Floridian at 500 points a night for a studio then define only use day to be the limit defined in Grand Floridian's POS. They could do that over X years. However, when I ask this exact scenario to Compliance and Contract they admit they aren't really sure if the maximum reallocation language really allows this. It just is odd to me that it is something they can't give a definitive answer on. Based on your reading you say yes; however, DVC still can't confirm that to be true. Either they don't want to because it will scare off people or they haven't even thought about the implications yet.

No one is going to give a definitive answer until they talk to the lawyers first. If it’s not spelled out to them in their FAQ sheet better safe than sorry.

 

[crvetter]

No one is going to give a definitive answer until they talk to the lawyers first. If it’s not spelled out to them in their FAQ sheet better safe than sorry.

Agreed; however, the issue is Compliance and Contract are legal departments. I think they thought I keep asking about transferring points between Vacation Home Types but my question isn't that but entirely different. So when I explain my question all I get back is "We need to talk to our manager" to which they call me and they say "We can move points between home types" Then the circle starts over and I go up higher.

However, today I sent a certified letter to DVCMC specifically asking this question so hopefully that will get a proper response. As suggested by compliance today.

 

[Jerry5788]

Agreed; however, the issue is Compliance and Contract are legal departments. I think they thought I keep asking about transferring points between Vacation Home Types but my question isn't that but entirely different. So when I explain my question all I get back is "We need to talk to our manager" to which they call me and they say "We can move points between home types" Then the circle starts over and I go up higher.

However, today I sent a certified letter to DVCMC specifically asking this question so hopefully that will get a proper response. As suggested by compliance today.

Yeah I’m just saying at most corporations even the compliance department is just following a manuel. Even when issues get complex they consult outside counsel. So my guess is Disney doesn’t know if they are right or wrong lol. And even if they think they are right they will want to get verified.

 

[crvetter]

Yeah I’m just saying at most corporations even the compliance department is just following a manuel. Even when issues get complex they consult outside counsel. So my guess is Disney doesn’t know if they are right or wrong lol. And even if they think they are right they will want to get verified.

Agreed. I honestly believe that Disney probably doesn't know for sure. Perhaps that was why I was suggested to write the letter. Though this is something they should know in my opinion and should be in the manual of canned responses. I'm surprised it isn't