"Working your way through college"

[ladycollector]

No, I don't think so. I am a junior (will be a senior in the fall) at UCF and I have a part time job, get scholarships, financial aid, and have taken out one loan, and it's still hard. Financially I'm not TOO bad off, but it is very difficult to make good grades and KEEP a scholarship when you have to work.. If I had to work full time, there's no way I'd be able to maintain a 3.5.

 

[DizBelle]

I worked my way through college and graduated in 2003. I had a job with a mandatory 48 hour/6 day workweek and took between 14 and 18 credit hours. I went to school through summers and graduated in 3 years. I paid cash as I went and got no aid or loans so I got out with no debt. My grades weren't bad, I ended with a 3.8 and a degree in Information Systems. It was not easy and especially at the end I had a lot of days that were work, school, labs, homework, 2 hours of sleep and do it again.

If you are determined and smart you can do it but it was not a pleasant 3 year existence.

There is no way the human body can function long term on only 2 hours of sleep per night. If you tried, it would be severely detrimental to your health. It's sad that this is considered a viable option.

 

[englishteacha]

I agree with C.Ann. Most people who are "working" through college should at least apply for aid. You never know what you're going to get! I got a "loan" for future teachers that was repaid by teaching. It covered most of my tuition, and I didn't have to pay it back as long as I taught in Maine one year for each year I received the loan. I got a few small scholarships here and there, and some grants. My husband got nothing but student loans and a small grant. He worked to pay for books, fees, housing, etc. He was lucky to get course credit for some of the work he did, like a paid internship. Even attending a state school, he owed $14,000 in loans. It's paid off now (we paid it off very quickly!) but it was a burden I wish we didn't have to undertake. I worked full time all summer (sometimes on campus, sometimes off), and took courses in the summer, which enabled me to do a semester abroad. Many of the other students who went abroad when I did had to stay in school an extra semester or year because they missed important classes while they were gone. I planned for my time away and graduated on time. A lot of my summer earnings were put towards paying for my semester in the UK.

Here in Maine we have some very good community colleges. I highly recommend to anyone to start their degrees there. All courses at U Maine CCs transfer to the 4 year schools. UMaine also offers a lot of courses online. Several people I work with lived at home, worked full time, and took classes online year round. They finished their degrees in 4 years because they worked consistently on school. They took one or two classes at a time, but because they worked year round they got the required number of credits to graduate in 4 years. One actually finished in 3 years while working as an Ed Tech in our district, and was hired as a teacher as soon as she finished her BS. She was a young teacher but is doing fabulously, and her work ethic is amazing!

I'm now back in school working on my Master's degree. My school district is paying for my degree, thank goodness. I could never afford to do it on my own. It's very hard. I work all day, run the school drama program, and then come home and do my homework. My program is online, but it's still very hard work and very time consuming. I'm glad I didn't have to work full time and go to school for my bachelor's degree. Working part time during the school year was hard enough.

 

[koima]

Similarly, my high school daughter is in a program at school that'll allow her to earn a CNA (Certified Nursing Assitant) license before she completes her high school diploma; she'll be able to work as a low-level nurse during her college years (while working towards a BS-RN degree),

Can you tell me about this program? We have a friend with a high school aged daughter who wants to be a nurse, and I think this would be ideal for her!

 

[MrsPete]

I also don't really see the point because I don't think taking out some loans is the worst thing in the world.

No, it's not the end of the world, but having loans after college WILL seriously impact your life. My first two years out of college -- even with a real paycheck -- were every bit as hard financially as my college years. If I'd had loans to repay, I would've been forced into credit card debt (or a second job). If we'd had loans to repay, we wouldn't have been able to buy a house when we got married, and we'd have had to delay having children. No, borrowing just extends the years of living in quasi-poverty. If there's any way possible, it's better to bite the bullet and do the hard work up front.

If I had to work full time, there's no way I'd be able to maintain a 3.5.

I worked full time and graduated with honors. It took me five years to complete two degrees. Easy? No. Possible? Yes.

Can you tell me about this program? We have a friend with a high school aged daughter who wants to be a nurse, and I think this would be ideal for her!

It's a series of high school classes. She's only a sophomore right now, so her classes are on campus, but when she's a senior she'll spend two periods of one semester "working" at the hospital. I believe she'll have to pass a state test to get the official license, and she said one of the "selling points" is that they only charge high school students $35 for this. This is a fairly common class, and I'm sure your guidance counselor could tell you what's available in your area. It's been great for my daughter. She went into the class thinking, "I think I want to do something in the medical field." Now she KNOWS that this is what she wants, and her feet are firmly set on the path towards that goal.

 

[Handbag Lady]

My niece is doing it now.

She goes to CC for as many units as she can carry per term. During this Summer, she has a full-time job and a part-time job.

But, she does live at home and we all pitch in to feed her from time to time.

She KNOWS she has to finish college. She's going to transfer to either UCLA or another university for her bacherlor's degree. Of course we will all have to pitch in now, but I am so proud of her for getting herself this far.

 

[Northstar]

It's still possible for a few people, but since it requires good luck as well as good planning, it's not possible for most.

I can't tell you how many people I know who dropped out short of their degree because either the income stream decreased or the expenses increased, despite their best planning. Illness, family responsibilities, and job loss are the big dream-killers. Oh, and just not having enough time... failing courses because you can't stay awake to study after working an 8-hour day, commuting, attending class, and commuting again.

The sad thing is that they feel like failures when they hear about someone who was able to pull it off.

So it's possible, but it's like tryouts for American Idol or the NFL or something like that.... many will try, many will fail, a few will succeed, and one injury can scuttle your dream.

 

[DisneyBlonde]

I agree that if you do a few years at community college and then finish at a 4 year school, you ca do it. But for the average college student, I don't think it's possible without student loans.

 

[FireDancer]

There is no way the human body can function long term on only 2 hours of sleep per night. If you tried, it would be severely detrimental to your health. It's sad that this is considered a viable option.

It wasn't every night, just nights that had labs due the next day that required me to be up doing them at night. My job was pretty cool about it and I would take naps at lunch. I managed to survive and learned a lot of good time-management skills.

 

[ladycollector]

I worked full time and graduated with honors. It took me five years to complete two degrees. Easy? No. Possible? Yes.

I guess you're smarter and have more energy than me, then. Lol.

 

[brerrabbit]

Certainly anything is possible but it is much more difficult today than it once was. When I entered college in 1977 I attended the University of Houston which is a state school and had a job. I lived at home and took full class loads and worked. I made $4 an hour working and paid for my car, insurance, and spending money. I was fortunate enough to have a scholarship for $5,000 that I received $625 a semester. While in today's world that would not get me far, in 1977 for the Fall Semester I took 12 credit hours, bought a parking pass, a yearbook, and a ticket book to all the home football games and my total bill was $225. I graduated in four and a half years with a paid for car, boat, and $10,000 in the bank. Not a bad way to start your life. The same is not possible at all in todays world. The same 12 hours plus extras at a state school in Texas today would cost you $4,000. Thats a 1778% increase while minimum wage has increased maybe 200% ???

 

[disney1990]

My DD worked as a bartender (totally supporting herself) and went to community college. It took her almost 5 years to earn her AA. Last September she quit her job, gave up her apartment, and applied for financial aid. She is now going to school full time (in another state). When she applied, she was told it would take her 2-1/2 more years, but she was tired of trying to do it the hard way and went for it. She will graduate in December 2010.

 

[ead79]

I think it's still possible, though certainly difficult. My best friend worked her way through college (we graduated in 2002). After her freshman year she signed up to be an RA in a dorm, which made her housing cost free. She used the school's dining plan, which was much less expensive than buying food on her own. She worked full time during the summers to save up as much as possible when she wasn't taking classes to help with tuition. She also got a part-time job during the school year working in an office at the school, which helped her pay for her other living costs, books, etc. This was at a major state school (Georgia Tech).

 

[novajeanjellybean]

Certainly anything is possible but it is much more difficult today than it once was. When I entered college in 1977 I attended the University of Houston which is a state school and had a job. I lived at home and took full class loads and worked. I made $4 an hour working and paid for my car, insurance, and spending money. I was fortunate enough to have a scholarship for $5,000 that I received $625 a semester. While in today's world that would not get me far, in 1977 for the Fall Semester I took 12 credit hours, bought a parking pass, a yearbook, and a ticket book to all the home football games and my total bill was $225. I graduated in four and a half years with a paid for car, boat, and $10,000 in the bank. Not a bad way to start your life. The same is not possible at all in todays world. The same 12 hours plus extras at a state school in Texas today would cost you $4,000. Thats a 1778% increase while minimum wage has increased maybe 200% ???

Don't even get me started on U of H!!! I went there for five years and I did get my Bachelor's degree form there but I don't believe it is possible without aid. For example my sophomore year I lived on campus, had 2 grants, and student loans.I also worked 2 jobs. I still received a bill for $700 for one semester. It was about $4000 a semester not including books. It's crazy expensive.

 

[Cindyluwho]

When I went to college eons ago, I spent my summers working in the fish canneries in Alaska. The work lasted 6 weeks and after spending $$, I had about $4k to put towards college. When I returned home in late July I would take a waitressing job or work in a local fish processing plant and bring in another $1K - 2K before heading back to school. I would then work about 8 to 10 hours a week during the school year.

I still have friends from my home town whose kids are doing the same thing, so yes it is possible but it's very hard work. And you'd be hard-pressed to find many kids willing to work in a fish cannery, 16 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6 weeks straight. But yes, it CAN be done. You will smell bad, but it can be done

 

[JoanGirardi]

I did it back in '83, but I don't think it's feasible now. My oldest is finishing his first year of college now, and it was all he could do to work enough to pay for his books. The rest was covered with scholarship and loans. It's all so much more expensive now, and minimum wage has not come close to keeping up with the increase in cost.

 

[missypie]

I've done the math...the minimum wage I would have worked for in the 70s was $3.60 per hour. Now it's what, $6.40? It has not even doubled in 30 years, yet the cost of school has approximately quadrupled.

Let's say a student, starting at age 16, works 20 hours a week during school and 40 during vacations. They could work approximately 1386 hours per year.

In 1976, 1386 hours x $3.60 min wage = $4989, or approximately one year of tuition, room and board at a state school.

In 2009, 1386 hours x $6.4 min wage = $8870, or slightly over one semester of tuition, room and board at a state school.

If a student worked for three years back in the 70s, they could have saved enough for 3 years of school (w/o any aid.) If a student works for three years now, they can save enough for three and a half semesters at school.(Of course, in this economy, it's very difficult for a student to find a 40 hour work week...my son is getting 12 hours a week.)

Edited to add: The student who has to pay 100% of his way to college would probably not be able to save 100% of his earnings because he is likely to have to pay for transportation to work, meals, etc.

One more thought: My niece's evil stepmother kicked her out of the house when she turned 18 (and still had a semester of HS to go.) She managed to combine need-based and merit aid and get a degree from a prestigious university in 4 years, even including a semester abroad, with ZERO contribution from her parents.

 

[MrsPete]

I've done the math...the minimum wage I would have worked for in the 70s was $3.60 per hour. Now it's what, $6.40? It has not even doubled in 30 years, yet the cost of school has approximately quadrupled.

Nope, minimum wage in the 70s ranged from 1.60 -2.90. Here's a link: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html. I looked it up because I was pretty sure minimum wage was 3.35 in the mid-80s when I was a college student.

So let's do the math again, using your 1386 hours/year:
1970s student, assuming mid-point minimum wage of $2/hour = $2772
2008 student, making today's minimum wage of $7.25/hour = $9980

You said that in the 70s a year of school was about $4989 (that sounds a little high to me because I paid about $5000/year in the mid-80s, but things vary by state). I don't have any way to verify what college cost in the 1970s.
Here's a link for today's NC state schools: http://www.soicc.state.nc.us/soicc/planning/c2c.htm
According to this, a student could attend Ap-State for $9042/year or NC State for $12,157/year or UNC-Wilmington for $10,859 -- that's room, board, tuition -- all of these are fine schools, and I'd be pleased for my daughters to attend them.

So here's how it looks:
The 1970s student earns $2772 and needs $4989 (again, this $4989 isn't something I can confirm or deny).
The 2009 student earns $9980 and needs $9042-$12,157 (these figures CAN be confirmed with the above links).

It's not looking like things are worse today.

A student who's working his way through school is going to have to work more than 20 hours/week during the school year AND he's going to need a better-than-minimum wage job.

In the real world, the student who's working his way through school probably isn't going to make it if he's piddling along at a minimum wage job. BUT most of my high school students earn more than minimum, so I don't see why college students shouldn't do as well. For example, my recent student teacher took a pay cut when she stopped working as a cocktail waitress and started teaching school (she did it, of course, for the benefits, but her pay went down!).

One huge difference, of course, is that today's students haven't learned to economize. Those of us who grew up in the 1970s were used to fewer clothes in our closet, we didn't necessarily have a personal car when we went away to college, and we had to use the phone on the wall down the hall. Today's college student has much higher expectations for material luxuries.

 

[SamRoc]

I was so lucky that my company paid for my college education back in the 80s. Don't know of too many companies that still do that. I worked 8-4 in NYC then went to school from 6-9pm 4 nights a week and all day saturday. Have no idea where i got all that energy from! DS and DD are both in college now and they have loans and both work to pay for their college.

 

[Caradana]

It isn't fun. I'm blessed and grateful that I didn't have to do it, thanks to a fantastic college financial aid policy, but I literally feel so strongly about paying for college for my kids that my DH and I contribute to a 529 every month, and we don't have kids yet, with none on the immediate horizon.

"But Dana, it's the kids who work like slaves at minimum wage to get through college who really APPRECIATE it."

Not true. The brutal truth is that you can tell which kids are going to graduate from college on time by the time they're in 9th or 10th grade. You can look at your kid's friends now and tell. The kids with internal fire and drive and inquisitiveness succeed. The kids who don't, don't. It has remarkably little to do with how tuition is paid, though there is a correlation between family income and graduation rates, and that probably speaks to a correlation between expectations ("it's not if you're going ... it's where") and the education levels and jobs of the parents.

"But Dana, the kids whose parents just paid for everything all turned into massive alcoholic slackers who failed out of their pottery major."

Not true. The college I went to has about 2,500 kids who qualify for no financial aid whatsoever, with annual tuition, mandatory room/board and fees exceeding $50,000. The university's four-year graduation rate is 97%.

"But Dana, it's just not achievable for most people to pay for this anymore."

Maybe. Maybe not. We're not going to sell and upgrade from this house, which I would love - LOVE - to do - I have fantasies of living on a golf course and getting enough bedrooms to host family Christmas - we could totally afford to do it, but we stay put. We could totally take a year off and travel the world, but we both work extra freelance jobs instead. We drive used Hyundais. We put off kids. We don't get pets so we don't have to worry about working late at night and weekends, whenever we need to. And we invest in the 529s. These are our choices. Others make the choices that are right for them. But I will be * sure that when college time comes, and when its time to launch my kids into the world, tuition will be there, and they will have a tsunami of advantages as their tailwind.