Woman dies on Six Flags Roller Coaster

[skylizard]

I think amusement parks will get more serious about people who are too big to ride. The operators really need to enforce that rule and not just let it slide to avoid a confrontation or embarrassing someone. The guest really should thank the operators for thinking about their safety but I highly doubt that would be the reaction from most people who are told they are too big to ride safely.

I hate to say it, but I wonder if her weight was a contributing factor in this. From the pics I've seen, the lap bar is pretty low and she was a pretty big women. If she didn't have the lap bar all they way down and full secured, could she have slipped out on that first hard banking turn?

 

[bcla]

Height restrictions also take many other things into consideration, such as the body's ability to handle the ride. They do testing at various heights with crash dummies to see which one can handle it. This is going off a vague memory of a tv show about coasters/amusement park ride building. There is a ton of research gone into this stuff long before the ground breaks on building it.
https://disneyland.disney.go.com/attractions/disney-california-adventure/radiator-springs-racers/
According to Disney it's on a 40" height requirement. Sometimes we also forget what it's like being short, it could be that the child isn't tall enough to see out the window. When that happens, parents can take it upon themselves to "fix" it or do other unsafe things to endanger the child. Test Track at Epcot is the same ride, and features the same height requirement.


If you want your short child to ride coasters, then wait till s/he is tall enough without shoes on before planning your vacation. Ohh and give or take an inch on some of those height bars, they're not perfect.

OK - 40". I've also seen a lot of people in line and even a few people who were turned away for one reason or another. For many - that is supposed to be the highlight of their visit, and there are people who take it hard if they're too short or if a CM tells them their FP has expired.

However, I say it's arbitrary since they have shorter riders stand against the marker in shoes. There's a marker at the entrance and another one at the start of the ride, and they may not match exactly. I've heard of riders who looked good at the entrance but didn't at the final marker. Some have figured that they would put their kids in high-rise shoes, and apparently that works - even if the feet won't touch the ride floor. Like I said - it's arbitrary to some degree. I feel my kid could probably safely ride, but they need to set a limit somewhere. The forces of that ride were actually tamer than several roller coasters that my kid has been allowed to ride.

 

[bcla]

I hate to say it, but I wonder if her weight was a contributing factor in this. From the pics I've seen, the lap bar is pretty low and she was a pretty big women. If she didn't have the lap bar all they way down and full secured, could she have slipped out on that first hard banking turn?

Again - a lot of the speculation is that the bar might have stopped around her gut rather than properly securing her by her legs. In that case the restraint could probably have been reset and she could have tried to sit up straighter and get the bar down against her legs. Of course this is only conjecture.

So I'm wondering what the alternative is. Will everyone now need to wear a rock climbing harness and be attached via a carabiner on either side?

 

[CPT Tripss]

ToT used to have a bar, they changed to a seatbelt. Never heard the official reason why. A bar or seatbelt is all that is needed, you can't be thrown out of the car like on a roller coaster.

Probably went to a belt rather than a shared bar because a thin person sitting in the same row as a person similar in size and shaped like this unfortunate woman would not be well restrained by the bar they share.

 

[castlecouture2011]

I know but that's not the point. If a new WDW guest gets seated in a ride that has a lap bar, they're probably going to want that lap bar used. And it's just not professional or Disney like when the operator starts the ride and as your vehicle leaves the loading station he says to pull the lap bar down. Just mho.

It may not be "Disney like," but I don't think this thread was really discussing the show aspect. It's about the safety aspect and this particular incident...Disney like or not the lap bars are not a safely necessity for Splash in terms of keeping people from flying out...that's the point.

 

[skylizard]

Again - a lot of the speculation is that the bar might have stopped around her gut rather than properly securing her by her legs. In that case the restraint could probably have been reset and she could have tried to sit up straighter and get the bar down against her legs. Of course this is only conjecture.

So I'm wondering what the alternative is. Will everyone now need to wear a rock climbing harness and be attached via a carabiner on either side?

I think it's pretty clear now that they need something a bit more than a simple lap belt. Even if they had added a seat belt to the ride it may have saved her life.

 

[NotUrsula]

I just can't help but think of how many thousands of obese people (w/ large guts) have ridden these same rides over the years without a problem like this. This lady was pooh sized plus, no doubt, but surely there have been bigger than her; men, especially (meaning taller and wider). Interesting video linked, but maybe this wasn't the problem here?

There could be lots of reasons, but there is a gender difference to some extent. Men with large guts tend to be able to comfortably lift them (witness the concept of the "belt sling"), whereas women really cannot do that easily; we are just built differently, and height contributes as well.

A man with a large gut who was riding this would probably set the bar under his gut, while a woman probably would not, as it would be much more uncomfortable for a woman to do that.

 

[SandrA9810]

OK - 40". I've also seen a lot of people in line and even a few people who were turned away for one reason or another. For many - that is supposed to be the highlight of their visit, and there are people who take it hard if they're too short or if a CM tells them their FP has expired.

However, I say it's arbitrary since they have shorter riders stand against the marker in shoes. There's a marker at the entrance and another one at the start of the ride, and they may not match exactly. I've heard of riders who looked good at the entrance but didn't at the final marker. Some have figured that they would put their kids in high-rise shoes, and apparently that works - even if the feet won't touch the ride floor. Like I said - it's arbitrary to some degree. I feel my kid could probably safely ride, but they need to set a limit somewhere. The forces of that ride were actually tamer than several roller coasters that my kid has been allowed to ride.

Height requirements don't affect just kids. There are many guests that visit that have some sort of dwarfism, and can't ride Thunder, again 40" height requirement. Meanwhile, there are children a 1/3 of their age riding the ride. Don't you think that's kind of annoying?

Yes, parents love to stick their kids in platform shoes just to get them on the ride. Having friends that work in attractions with height restrictions, there could be volumes written on the lame ways parents try to make their kids "grow" an extra 2 inches to get on a ride. They also try to fool the cast member at the gate by adding something to make them taller, but then get caught at the loading dock.
That's why I said, make sure your kid is tall enough without shoes on before planning a vacation to avoid incidents like that. Every theme park has a list of attractions and height requirement. Disney's site will even sort the rides out by height requirement too.

 

[spewey]

For those with patience, there is a detailed discussion here about the possible reasons for the accident:

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/woman-dies-riding-texas-giant-at-six-flags-over-texas

A lot of technical jargon at times, and pretty interesting. I think the consensus there is that the lap bar was in place (the dispatch console would not show green unless it was), and that yes, body type may have been an issue.

There have been several ejections from various rides over the past decade where a certain lap-bar restraint system "held" but due to its design failed to hold riders with a particular "shape" (with the notable exception of a water-ride fatality in Wales). It has been a while since this happened (save for the tragic instance where a man without legs was allowed on a coaster); I assume the industry believed that this was an issue that had been dealth with and was unlikely to occur again.

To me wading through that thread was worthwhile if only for the comments by Dave Althoff (RideMan) who probably knows more about this stuff than any layperson in the world. He relays a couple of fears, most notably that the forces of some newer rides demand 100% reliance on the restraint systems to ensure the safety of the occupants.

 

[ChrisFL]

As a coaster enthusiast and who follows trips from another review site about theme parks....who do trips all over the world, I do believe that "extreme" coasters that meet certain g-forces, whether they go upside down or not, should have over the shoulder restraints(aka OTSR's) on them.

I know some coaster fanatics hate them as they like to feel more "free" but to me, the more secure I feel the better.

 

[bcla]

As a coaster enthusiast and who follows trips from another review site about theme parks....who do trips all over the world, I do believe that "extreme" coasters that meet certain g-forces, whether they go upside down or not, should have over the shoulder restraints(aka OTSR's) on them.

I know some coaster fanatics hate them as they like to feel more "free" but to me, the more secure I feel the better.

I remember seeing photos of the original looping coasters. I don't believe they even had any restraints. However, their issue was with lots of neck injuries because the forces pressed riders so hard into their seats that people got injured.

What would be the most secure would be an over the shoulder restraint with a contoured seat and crotch support. Maybe even a belt that locks into the restraint like they have on some suspended coasters where the feet hang. Even with a failure of the locking mechanism, the restraint won't fly off.

 

[RockAndRollBallerina]

Back when I lived in the Midwest and Six Flags Great America was the go to theme park during the summer. Both Viper and American Eagle had seat belts installed in the coaster vehicles in addition to the individual L shaped lap bar. This way there was a back up in the event the lap bar failed. Either way you weren't going to fall out. Would this of prevented the woman from being launched out of the coaster?

 

[castlecouture2011]

As a coaster enthusiast and who follows trips from another review site about theme parks....who do trips all over the world, I do believe that "extreme" coasters that meet certain g-forces, whether they go upside down or not, should have over the shoulder restraints(aka OTSR's) on them.

I know some coaster fanatics hate them as they like to feel more "free" but to me, the more secure I feel the better.

I am a pretty big coaster enthusiast also (although being young and having a DH who doesn't love them means I haven't gotten to experience NEAR enough), but I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable riding a coaster that went upside down and didn't have OTS restraints. Something like Tower of Terror is one thing, I love the free fall feeling...but when you're out in the open and have those G forces and the jostling...safety is definitely a priority. The accidents are so rare but it's just not fun to ride something and feel legitimately concerned.

 

[bcla]

I remember the shuttle loop rides made by Anton Schwarzkopf. I rode on the ones at Marriott's Great America in Santa Clara as well as Montezooma's Revenge at Knott's Berry Farm. No over the shoulder restraint, but I seem to recall a combination of a T-bar and a non-retracting seat belt that had to be manually tightened.

Here's a photo of one of the versions of this ride still operating. Obviously no over the shoulder restraint. The train itself could be a new one (the ride designer went out of business), but I don't recall the original ones having a shoulder restraint.

 

[spewey]

That's one of RideMan's points - the engineering of a ride should mesh seamlessly with the restraints. The Shwarzkopfs mentioned, for example, can be ridden safely with NO restraints. They are there to prevent (or make it difficult) for the rider to do something really stupid, like try to stand up.

 

[bcla]

That's one of RideMan's points - the engineering of a ride should mesh seamlessly with the restraints. The Shwarzkopfs mentioned, for example, can be ridden safely with NO restraints. They are there to prevent (or make it difficult) for the rider to do something really stupid, like try to stand up.

The seatbelts were completely manual to the best of my recollection.

And someone did manually unbuckle at the Matterhorn back in the 60s and stood up which led to getting thrown off.

As for the shuttle loops, I have an interesting story about the ride in Santa Clara. In HS I went there one of the "Physics Days" that they had for high school students on a weekday. Before we got to check out the park, we all joined in on a presentation from one of the senior ride operations engineers at the park. I think his experience goes back to when they were originally owned by Marriott. They installed the ride a year after they opened, and I think this may have been the first installation anywhere of this type of ride. Once they had it installed in place, it was time for their test runs. They asked the German designer what they should do and apparently he said it would be OK to fully load it with sandbags. Apparently the bearings were loaded with super heavy-weight grease from the manufacturer, because the first time they did it they loaded the ride with sandbags, the train stalled at the top of the loop, and the sandbags fell out from the train and landed on the track below with lots of loose sand all over the track. With the bags unloaded, it proceeded to move backwards and ground the sand into the track with sand contaminating the bearings of the wheels.

So they ended up having to clean up this mess and doing what they could to get rid of all that sand. That included repacking the bearings, and they just used the standard stuff they had on hand. So they did this all over again (I think they might have used sealed bags this time) and tried it again. This time it proceeded to go nicely through the loop, but so fast that it kept on going past the end where it broke off the dead end barrier.

So when they say that the ride forces should keep people in their seats, I'm sort of wary if there's any kind of inversion or any drop greater than 60°. I know lots of rides have different safety segments and automatic braking systems. I've heard of cases where a ride made an emergency stop because the safety systems were designed to stop in case of wheel failure, and some of the riders were left in an inverted position or at least where they'd slide out without being secured by a harness or belt. The harnesses or seat belts better hold in place if that happens.

 

[SandrA9810]

For those with patience, there is a detailed discussion here about the possible reasons for the accident:

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/woman-dies-riding-texas-giant-at-six-flags-over-texas

A lot of technical jargon at times, and pretty interesting. I think the consensus there is that the lap bar was in place (the dispatch console would not show green unless it was), and that yes, body type may have been an issue.

To me wading through that thread was worthwhile if only for the comments by Dave Althoff (RideMan) who probably knows more about this stuff than any layperson in the world. He relays a couple of fears, most notably that the forces of some newer rides demand 100% reliance on the restraint systems to ensure the safety of the occupants.

Do you know what they mean when they say "stapled in?" I'm assuming when one or more employee has to push on the restraints to secure the guest, but is there any particular way they do this?

 

[spewey]

"Stapled" is a coaster enthusiast's term for the restraint pushing down tight, usually "too tight" to allow what they call airtime, or the feeling of floating out of the seat during a drop.

Usually this is a result simply of the ride op going down the line, pushing on a lap bar to ensure a snug fit. Some riders have tricks to avoid this - i.e. pushing their leg up when the restraint is being checked - in order to keep some space between them and the bar, leading to a more thrilling ride. This is why on "enthusiast" nights (i.e. hosting an ACE gathering) ride ops are extra vigilant. And, yes, with larger riders stapling may occur on the "first click", and you may have to exert a bit of force to get it there.

Ironically stapling is not possible on some of the coasters with the most airtime - the Phoenix at Knoebels and the Jackrabbit at Kennywood come to mind - as they have fixed or single-position bars that cannot be lowered anywhere near one's legs. My five-year-old daughter rode the Phoenix with me last summer and seeing how much she came out of her seat was actually a little freaky. She was never in any danger of flying out, and she loved the ride, but still ... I think we may wait until she's a little older to try that again.

 

[DizBelle]

Back when I lived in the Midwest and Six Flags Great America was the go to theme park during the summer. Both Viper and American Eagle had seat belts installed in the coaster vehicles in addition to the individual L shaped lap bar. This way there was a back up in the event the lap bar failed. Either way you weren't going to fall out. Would this of prevented the woman from being launched out of the coaster?

FTR, as I understand it, she was not "launched" out of the coaster. She fell (one witness said she "tumbled") out as it crested and started coming down the first 79 degree hill. The car was nearlly vertical - 90 degrees would be vertical. And I don't think it was going at any high speed at all at this point.

 

[JLTraveling]

I haven't read the entire thread, but this accident brings back haunting memories for me. I grew up in Central Florida and worked for both Disney and Universal as a teen and young adult. I moved to New Orleans in 2001. In early 2003, I was hired as a ride supervisor for Six Flags New Orleans. Six Flags had just taken over the park, which was previously a local operation known as Jazzland and infamous for its poor customer service and dangerous practices. When I was hired, I was told that part of my job would be to look over training practices and help them improve both customer service and, more importantly, safety.

My first day was a joke, and it never got any better. We (ride supervisors and attendants) started training a week before opening. The training procedures were appalling---in what world does it make sense to push the GO button five dozen times in a row to make sure you have it, but only do one brief walk-around of the safety restraints? Anyway, I tried and tried to make suggestions on how to improve, and I was shut down at every step. I finally said, "If you don't make some changes around here, someone's going to die and it's going to be entirely the park's fault. I'm not willing to have that on my hands." And I walked out the door, never to return.

That was April 2003, just before the park opened. In July, a woman was killed on the Joker's Jukebox, one of the rides that had been under my purview and one of the ones I said they desperately needed to change the procedures for. She was standing on the platform buckling a child into the ride when the attendant started it. She was hit and killed by one of the cars.

I'm not going to presume to say that it's an institutional thing on the part of Six Flags. The New Orleans park was located in the worst part of town, and most of the employees were local teenagers from that neighborhood, some of whom had worked at Jazzland. But I do know what happened, and I do know that Six Flags was ultimately responsible.