With expansions, Pandora, and Galaxies Edge in the rearview mirror is Disney "tapped out" for competing with Epic Universe?

[Smugpugmug]

While I think Universal is taking a step in the right direction with their new park, I don’t particularly think it worries Disney as much as some may want it to. All 4 Disney World parks typically get more visitors than Universal Orlando, and Hollywood for that matter. I don’t see a 5 year hiatus coming either. Disney is constantly bringing out the next great movie that they can then market and sell at WDW.

If anything I could see a mor solid rotation with all these films being featured more and more. I’d love a 5th gate. But the expenditure is not necessary right now. Even when Epic opens and maybe beats Disney for a year or two on attendance can they beat them in 5 years? 10-15? Like Disney has demonstrated the ability to do. That remains to be seen.

At the end of the day How to train your Dragon and Monsters just aren’t as popular as what Disney has come out almost on a yearly basis. Mario has a lot of popularity but it’s also a lot of nostalgia based popularity. So can those areas with stand years and years of visits? I guess time will tell.

I mostly agree. The Universal park in Japan is getting a Pokemon expansion and I think Pokemon along with Nintendo as a whole (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.) will be enough to sway people away from Disney and to Universal. Pokemon is the highest grossing property of all time. It outsells everything Disney, including Star Wars and Marvel. It appeals to a wide age demographic, specifically young children. Universal was able to grab a decent percentage of tourist attendance from Disney when the Wizarding World opened and Disney tried to play catch up because of it (hence why Pandora was built). I think if Epic Universe got Pokemon along with the already confirmed Super Mario section it'll be a slam dunk for them. Of course this is just speculation and none of that has happened yet. That's just my 2 cents on it.

 

[jelona]

The agreement is that Disney is not allowed to use characters that appear in Universal's Marvel Super Hero Island at parks located on the east of the Mississippi. The big one of those characters being Spiderman so that's why Disneyland can get Web Slingers and WDW cannot. Other characters that I think Disney isn't allowed to use are the Hulk, Wolverine, Iron Man and Captain America.

Ahh.. well that makes sense. I forget that Universal still has those rides.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

I mentioned in another post all the changes Disney did that came after the first section of WWoHP opened. It’s a up and down system. They have respresentatives from all the parks whose job it is to be respectful a nd professional and accept the invites to ride the new rides. Doesn’t matter if it’s sea world or BG or fun spot or Knotts or six flags. Disney and Universal both implement this strategy. Since social media I’ve seen more of the CEOs touring the new lands then I think I ever would have. I distinctly remember Bob Iger Showing Bill and others from Universal around Galaxys Edge just like they toured Bob and others when Diagon Alley opened. It’s a sign of respect for those that created the land and rides. (And a job I personally would love- manifesting this into the world for me to be the representative that rides all the new rides and does everything new first!)
Disney will eventually bring in something new (my guess Encanto and the PATF remounting of SM) which will allow for universal to bring in something new. It’s a never ending ebb and flow, yin and Yang, push and pull.


Also I think with the Wish being delayed Disney might have a focus on cruising for a bit. It’s also the impression I got hearing the audience reaction to Pete on the podcast cruise with recommending cruising over WDW.

 

[john7994]

I mostly agree. The Universal park in Japan is getting a Pokemon expansion and I think Pokemon along with Nintendo as a whole (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.) will be enough to sway people away from Disney and to Universal. Pokemon is the highest grossing property of all time. It outsells everything Disney, including Star Wars and Marvel. It appeals to a wide age demographic, specifically young children. Universal was able to grab a decent percentage of tourist attendance from Disney when the Wizarding World and Disney tried to play catch up because of it (hence why Pandora was built). I think if Epic Universe got Pokemon along with the already confirmed Super Mario section it'll be a slam dunk for them. Of course this is just speculation and none of that has happened yet. That's just my 2 cents on it.

For purely selfish reasons, I hope Universal grabs as much attendance as possible, so that I can enjoy Disney more!

 

[bbeagle]

I mostly agree. The Universal park in Japan is getting a Pokemon expansion and I think Pokemon along with Nintendo as a whole (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.) will be enough to sway people away from Disney and to Universal. Pokemon is the highest grossing property of all time. It outsells everything Disney, including Star Wars and Marvel. It appeals to a wide age demographic, specifically young children.

Yes, Pokemon is huge, but it's not bigger than Disney, Marvel and Star Wars combined. They're over $300 Billion compared to $92 Billion for Pokemon.

This is the list of biggest IPs (from https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...ighest-grossing-media-franchises-of-all-time/)

 

[Smugpugmug]

Yes, Pokemon is huge, but it's not bigger than Disney, Marvel and Star Wars combined. They're over $300 Billion compared to $92 Billion for Pokemon.

This is the list of biggest IPs (from https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...ighest-grossing-media-franchises-of-all-time/)

I realize that if you combine them there's no contest. I think when I said that I was putting them in separate categories. Like Pokemon beats Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Marvel and Star Wars if you were to break them up. Also not all Disney fans enjoy all of these properties. Like there are plenty of people that love Star Wars and Marvel but don't care about classic Disney films and vice versa.

I still think Pokemon could be massively successful for Universal Orlando but I think they'll want to wait for the expansion to open in Osaka before doing anything.

 

[Dcgc28]

I mostly agree. The Universal park in Japan is getting a Pokemon expansion and I think Pokemon along with Nintendo as a whole (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.) will be enough to sway people away from Disney and to Universal. Pokemon is the highest grossing property of all time. It outsells everything Disney, including Star Wars and Marvel. It appeals to a wide age demographic, specifically young children. Universal was able to grab a decent percentage of tourist attendance from Disney when the Wizarding World opened and Disney tried to play catch up because of it (hence why Pandora was built). I think if Epic Universe got Pokemon along with the already confirmed Super Mario section it'll be a slam dunk for them. Of course this is just speculation and none of that has happened yet. That's just my 2 cents on it.

I don’t disagree, and HP definitely helped UO attendance but just as a point of how far behind they were, they’re still behind at least 3 of the 4 WDW parks most years. So we’ll see, I’m all for competition Disney needs to be pushed harder than what they’ve been push on a few fronts in Florida.

But I’m still skeptical what the long term draw will be. Pokémon would definitely help a lot.

 

[glocon]

If universal has Pokémon and hello kitty, I wonder why they are not doing more with those IPs.

 

[jelona]

I mostly agree. The Universal park in Japan is getting a Pokemon expansion and I think Pokemon along with Nintendo as a whole (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.) will be enough to sway people away from Disney and to Universal. Pokemon is the highest grossing property of all time. It outsells everything Disney, including Star Wars and Marvel. It appeals to a wide age demographic, specifically young children. Universal was able to grab a decent percentage of tourist attendance from Disney when the Wizarding World opened and Disney tried to play catch up because of it (hence why Pandora was built). I think if Epic Universe got Pokemon along with the already confirmed Super Mario section it'll be a slam dunk for them. Of course this is just speculation and none of that has happened yet. That's just my 2 cents on it.

I definitely agree. Pokémon is huge. Universal is definitely in some need of more Character experiences and slow rides like Disney has. We thought about adding a Universal day to our vacation this year, but like I said early, my son HATES thrill rides (me and my husband are huge rollercoaster junkies... so this hurts). We decided against it or that reason. There is just more to do at Disney for kids like him. If they added Pokémon, there would be more opportunities to attract the younger crowd and the non-thrill seekers. I think that's where Disney still beats Universal. Its still more Family Oriented, but can still appeal to those who don't have kids.

 

[Smugpugmug]

If universal has Pokémon and hello kitty, I wonder why they are not doing more with those IPs.

Universal's agreement with the Pokemon Company is still very new. I believe the partnership was made late 2021/early 2022. I bet in the next few years we will see more Pokemon inclusion into Universal parks. The deal right now is for Universal Japan only but there's a pretty high chance it'll reach the US parks in a few years.

 

[Chumpieboy]

So what is the reason based on?

From Disney's perspective - why should they? The parks are crowded. People are still coming back in droves despite the dropping customer service and park experience. They can take the existing resources/parks and double charge for after hours parties, exclusive tours, etc. instead of a 5th park.

I don't agree with that reasoning as a frequent guest, but that seems to be the thinking behind not planning a 5th park. Every 10 years a new park has opened since MK. It's been 20+ since DAK opened.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don’t disagree, and HP definitely helped UO attendance but just as a point of how far behind they were, they’re still behind at least 3 of the 4 WDW parks most years. So we’ll see, I’m all for competition Disney needs to be pushed harder than what they’ve been push on a few fronts in Florida.

But I’m still skeptical what the long term draw will be. Pokémon would definitely help a lot.

I think Super Mario is going to be a huge draw. I can see it being as big of a draw as HP was for IOA. Disney will continue to do well for families with smaller children. I think young adults who grew up with Mario will definitely opt for Universal when it opens.

 

[john7994]

From Disney's perspective - why should they? The parks are crowded. People are still coming back in droves despite the dropping customer service and park experience. They can take the existing resources/parks and double charge for after hours parties, exclusive tours, etc. instead of a 5th park.

I don't agree with that reasoning as a frequent guest, but that seems to be the thinking behind not planning a 5th park. Every 10 years a new park has opened since MK. It's been 20+ since DAK opened.

To be fair, its been 20+ years for a Universal park to be opened as well in Orlando. I don't have any inside knowledge to the reasoning for it either. Now, Universal has something on the calendar for 2025, whether Disney responds with a 5th gate, expands existing or stands pat - remains to be seen I guess. Already shared my thoughts in the thread - so I know what I would like to see.

 

[mom2rtk]

Over and over I see people talking about a 5th gate. I don't see that as possible any time in the near future. Or maybe into the far future.
Disney is currently unable to staff the four parks they have now. They can't staff the restaurants, hotels or transportation. How are they going to meet the personnel needs of a 5th gate and all that encompasses?

Even if staffing was readily available, Disney doesn’t have any appetite for staffing another park.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think Super Mario is going to be a huge draw. I can see it being as big of a draw as HP was for IOA. Disney will continue to do well for families with smaller children. I think young adults who grew up with Mario will definitely opt for Universal when it opens.

Many younger adults now have more nostalgia for Nintendo than they do for Disney. This could be every bit as table turning in the Orlando them park business as Harry Potter has been.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Many younger adults now have more nostalgia for Nintendo than they do for Disney. This could be every bit as table turning in the Orlando them park business as Harry Potter has been.

Consider me one of those people. I have never seen Star Wars and I don't care about Marvel but I absolutely love Nintendo and so do a lot of my friends (we are all in our mid 20s). I am super excited for the Nintendo themed areas that are coming to Hollywood and Orlando.

 

[Dcgc28]

I think Super Mario is going to be a huge draw. I can see it being as big of a draw as HP was for IOA. Disney will continue to do well for families with smaller children. I think young adults who grew up with Mario will definitely opt for Universal when it opens.

I tend to agree, some what. A lot of young adults now days have kids. I think if anything you might see even more 50/50 trips which would benefit UO for sure.

 

[jelona]

Consider me one of those people. I have never seen Star Wars and I don't care about Marvel but I absolutely love Nintendo and so do a lot of my friends (we are all in our mid 20s). I am super excited for the Nintendo themed areas that are coming to Hollywood and Orlando.

I'm in my Early 30s, so I still have Nostolgia for Disney, since I grew up in the Disney Renaissance period, but I also grew up with Nintendo. Not sure if it's because I have a 9 yr. old boy, (maybe it will be different with my 2 yr. old daughter when she's older) But I can not get him into Classic Disney Movies. Last October when we went to Disney World, we started to watch a classic movie each weekend leading up to our trip. It just would not hold his interest. I think Disney is trying to bring back that Nostolgia with live action Remakes.. Just not sure if its working. He's mainly into Marvel and Star wars, and really only the New Star Wars shows like Mandalorian.
Nintendo on the other hand, he is very much into and i think that is the same for the majority of his age group, regardless of gender. We grew up on Super Mario Bros, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. and now with the introduction of the switch (awesome console) He is playing these games also. So the Nostolgia for Nintendo will stick around for awhile. Same goes for Pokémon, kids are still taking Pokémon cards and trading them with their friends. My son stashes them in his pockets to take and trade at Recess.

 

[OppR2nist]

It's maybe a question for another thread, but what would a 5th gate even be?

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'm in my Early 30s, so I still have Nostolgia for Disney, since I grew up in the Disney Renaissance period, but I also grew up with Nintendo. Not sure if it's because I have a 9 yr. old boy, (maybe it will be different with my 2 yr. old daughter when she's older) But I can not get him into Classic Disney Movies. Last October when we went to Disney World, we started to watch a classic movie each weekend leading up to our trip. It just would not hold his interest. I think Disney is trying to bring back that Nostolgia with live action Remakes.. Just not sure if its working. He's mainly into Marvel and Star wars, and really only the New Star Wars shows like Mandalorian.
Nintendo on the other hand, he is very much into and i think that is the same for the majority of his age group, regardless of gender. We grew up on Super Mario Bros, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. and now with the introduction of the switch (awesome console) He is playing these games also. So the Nostolgia for Nintendo will stick around for awhile. Same goes for Pokémon, kids are still taking Pokémon cards and trading them with their friends. My son stashes them in his pockets to take and trade at Recess.

I think kids like your son are who both Universal and Disney are trying to appeal to with their IP acquisitions. Disney with Star Wars and Marvel and Universal with Nintendo. I say kids because I don't think it's just boys. When I was your sons age, EVERY kid loved Mario and Pokemon regardless of gender. I played the newest releases on my Gameboy Advance and Gamecube. I have little cousins your sons age and younger that are obsessed with Nintendo and play the newest releases on their Switch. My youngest cousin is 6 and he is more interested in Mario games and Pokemon cards than Disney movies. Nintendo has the nostalgia factor that Disney has as well and I think that's going to be a driving force in people visiting Universal Hollywood and Orlando in the future.

In terms of what Disney could do to compete, personally I would want more rides in any park except MK to help increase capacity more than anything else.