With expansions, Pandora, and Galaxies Edge in the rearview mirror is Disney "tapped out" for competing with Epic Universe?

[tentaguasu]

I'm not sure of the historical record, but it seems to me that Disney is on a bit of a spending spree. With two full lands - Galaxies Edge and Pandora - some major overhauls (Toy Story land and Epcot spine) - and a set of new rides (e.g. Remy, MMRR, Slinky, Cosmic Rewind, and soon Tron), it feels like Disney has invested a lot in the parks, both big and small over the last 5 years or so.

Though I'd love them to do more (always more!) it seems like a time when they're likely to rest. I can't think of any big IP they can look to or coffers they will want to dig into.

That said, can they really sit still with Epic Universe coming? I mean, they *can*. I understand that they'll be the 800lb gorilla in the Orlando theme park game well after I'm dead and gone (hopefully 50 years + from now). Universal won't be truly competing on anything like an even field with Disney in any way, shape, or form in my lifetime.

But big dogs don't like letting little dogs take anything off their plate. And the little dog of Universal has been snacking on the edges of Disney's plate a bit lately. Universal has shaved a day or two off of many Disney vacations with Wizarding World, and I have to think Epic Universe threatens to peel off a bit more. Disney didn't become rich by a lack of spirit in crushing competition.

Given their recent spending, I can't see Disney spending an more for even more significant expansion... yet it would also seem odd for them to stand pat with Universal investing as much as they are.

What do you all think? Are we in for a sustained pause for Disney (5+ years with no really major projects) or do they keep investing heavily? And if so, in what?

 

[Jennasis]

They'll figure it out. They always do.

 

[BrianL]

Well, their popularity is certainly not waning. The parks are busy - too busy. They need more bandwidth and they're going to have to make some. There is still some room to add some attractions, but I think we are drawing ever closer to the inevitable fifth gate. That's not going to happen overnight, but they are inching closer, and Epic universe will push that along. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Jrb1979]

Well, their popularity is certainly not waning. The parks are busy - too busy. They need more bandwidth and they're going to have to make some. There is still some room to add some attractions, but I think we are drawing ever closer to the inevitable fifth gate. That's not going to happen overnight, but they are inching closer, and Epic universe will push that along. We'll just have to wait and see.

With the speed Disney builds things I doubt there will much for new attractions before Epci Universe is built.

What they need more then a 5th gate is add a lot more to the parks not named MK. They don't all have to be E-ticket attractions.

 

[NickC]

I think WDW put themselves in a position where they actually do have to compete with Universal now. WDW used to be a unique experience that was unrivaled- fueled by customer service and focusing on creating a one-of-a-kind 'magical' getaway for the entire family. Universal couldn't touch that, and, really, they didn't need to. They focused on different things and attracted different clientele. I think that is why WDW used to draw crowds with 40-50 year old rides, while Universal has been investing in new rides.

In my opinion, WDW made a conscious decision to try and 'keep up' with Universal instead of innovating and concentrating on their own unique brand. Now they are in a position where they have to either invest in the magic AND the 'theme park' experience, or pick one and stick with it. They are, no doubt, still drawing in crowds, so it seems like they are doing a good job of keeping up. It's a shift for WDW and time will tell if it is the right business decision, especially when Epic Universe opens. But, I kind of feel that they didn't have a need to react when the magic was flowing.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think WDW put themselves in a position where they actually do have to compete with Universal now. WDW used to be a unique experience that was unrivaled- fueled by customer service and focusing on creating a one-of-a-kind 'magical' getaway for the entire family. Universal couldn't touch that, and, really, they didn't need to. They focused on different things and attracted different clientele. I think that is why WDW used to draw crowds with 40-50 year old rides, while Universal has been investing in new rides.

In my opinion, WDW made a conscious decision to try and 'keep up' with Universal instead of innovating and concentrating on their own unique brand. Now they are in a position where they have to either invest in the magic AND the 'theme park' experience, or pick one and stick with it. They are, no doubt, still drawing in crowds, so it seems like they are doing a good job of keeping up. It's a shift for WDW and time will tell if it is the right business decision, especially when Epic Universe opens. But, I kind of feel that they didn't have a need to react when the magic was flowing.

With the speed Disney builds things now Epic Universe will be long open before any major additions are added. The thing Disney will always win out with families with littles. I do see many that pick Disney over other parks mainly for the fact they can ride most of the attractions without getting motion sickness.

 

[john7994]

I presume (with no internal knowledge), Disney likely has plans A, B, and C already figured out. This includes having line of site into construction labor, sourcing/supply chains, local infrastructure along with competitive analysis in place before making announcements. By the looks of it, Tron should be wrapping (soonish), the Moana venue at Epcot is moving along, and they just launched GoTG, and plans for the Poly Tower - no small set of construction projects. I would expect and hope, they complete what they have on their plate, focus on resort rehabs, rotate some much needed ride refurb into the mix without sacrificing capacity too much, and get their entertainment / dining / staffing stabilized - essentially the "experience" components.

I don't think they will take away from their 50th Celebration in progress, but possibly a good way to close this milestone is with a big announcement for the "next 50 years". Whether that's expansion on a larger scale - (i.e. Adding countries/rides in World Showcase, expanding the ride portfolio at AK, button-up the hodge-podge identity of HS along with a respectable expansion) or a full-fledged "5th" gate remains to be seen.

There are a lot of headwinds to contend with not least of which are the costs of goods, materials, and labor. I think Disney likely has done the calculous on the impact of Epic - not sure they need to be in emergency mode right now heading into a recession. Just because Universal has set a 2025 target doesn't necessarily mean they will meet it either - lots of variables at play right now.

 

[Gabby01]

Well put, Tentaguasu. I do think having “the big new thing” counts for a lot in this game of being the must-do destination of the moment. And I agree it’s not like Disney to shy away from a contest of innovation.

But they’ve been through Harry Potter, Star Wars, Marvel . . . what other comparable franchises are left? Epic Universe is supposed to have a Nintendo land, so I wonder if they’ll move into the realm of video games. I, for one, would love to see a Final Fantasy or Tomb Raider themed land.

It’s also possible Disney is pursuing a strategy of integrating new technology into their existing parks (like Magicband+).

 

[jsbowl16]

We may not see any new projects until the Reedy Creek issue gets figured out.

 

[bbeagle]

We may not see any new projects until the Reedy Creek issue gets figured out.

Disney has announced MANY projects since this whole DeSantis crap started. They announced new Epcot world showcase details, new Blizzard Beach improvements, more Splash Mountain refurb details, Poly Tower details.... Reedy Creek, whether it stays or goes, doesn't matter.

It's looking like all the major projects (Guardians, Tron, Epcot) will be done by Spring 2023. At that time, Universal's new park is still over 2 years away. Disney has plenty of time to add more. Mary Poppins? Add a Cars land to Disney World? Encanto? Lots of IP to work with.

The ONLY thing I'm looking forward to at Epic Universe is Nintendo land. More Harry Potter? Meh. Monsters? Meh. Training your Dragon? Might be cool. We'll see.

 

[glocon]

Disney has announced MANY projects since this whole DeSantis crap started. They announced new Epcot world showcase details, new Blizzard Beach improvements, more Splash Mountain refurb details, Poly Tower details.... Reedy Creek, whether it stays or goes, doesn't matter.

It's looking like all the major projects (Guardians, Tron, Epcot) will be done by Spring 2023. At that time, Universal's new park is still over 2 years away. Disney has plenty of time to add more. Mary Poppins? Add a Cars land to Disney World? Encanto? Lots of IP to work with.

The ONLY thing I'm looking forward to at Epic Universe is Nintendo land. More Harry Potter? Meh. Monsters? Meh. Training your Dragon? Might be cool. We'll see.

Lol- see to me more Harry Potter and Monsters are what I’m looking forward to. And maybe Nintendo land- depends on what they do with it. Training a Dragon… Meh. So many different types of people out there.
I’m just hoping all of it is as greatly themed as the current HP lands are (which I think they will be).
Personally I agree that WDW doesn’t necessarily need a fifth gate, (although I would love that) if they just added new lands to the current parks it would be great! There is so much potential if they focused on the WDW parks, not more resorts.

 

[Stratman50th]

Over and over I see people talking about a 5th gate. I don't see that as possible any time in the near future. Or maybe into the far future.
Disney is currently unable to staff the four parks they have now. They can't staff the restaurants, hotels or transportation. How are they going to meet the personnel needs of a 5th gate and all that encompasses?

 

[Marionnette]

Over and over I see people talking about a 5th gate. I don't see that as possible any time in the near future. Or maybe into the far future.
Disney is currently unable to staff the four parks they have now. They can't staff the restaurants, hotels or transportation. How are they going to meet the personnel needs of a 5th gate and all that encompasses?

It would take years to build a 5th gate. Staffing shortages are not going to last forever. If Universal can go forward with Epic Universe with little concern for staffing needs, Disney could build another park as well. They won't do it, but the reason isn't based on 2022 hiring difficulties.

 

[john7994]

It would take years to build a 5th gate. Staffing shortages are not going to last forever. If Universal can go forward with Epic Universe with little concern for staffing needs, Disney could build another park as well. They won't do it, but the reason isn't based on 2022 hiring difficulties.

So what is the reason based on?

 

[kanerf]

Universal has never had a Reedy Creek style agreement and gets everything done just fine. It will be the same for WDW if some other agreement is not made. Things will take longer of course, but everything will work out in the end.

 

[jelona]

I'm wondering if there would be anything made Marvel related at Disney world. I would think that would be their next big thing, like Avengers Campus in California. But where would they put it? I would think HS would be the most likely, but now with Cosmic Rewind, would it be put in Epcot? that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but neither did Cosmic Rewind being at Epcot (Not complaining... I think it's awesome epcot has a big thrill ride) I honestly figured Rock n Rollercoaster would have been transformed to a Guardians ride before i heard they got their own.
I will say that Universal Studios is definitely right there with Disney. My son is Almost 9 and we are surprising him a trip with Disney... but if Nintendo world was already open... that is where we would have gone. The only problem with him is he is not a thrill seeker, so There isn't much for him to ride at Universal. I do hear a lot from other kids his age saying they prefer Universal over Disney. Nintendo World will definitely take away some of the days that people would have spent at Disney. Its huge with kids 5 and up and major Nostolgia with their parents.

 

[john7994]

I'm wondering if there would be anything made Marvel related at Disney world. I would think that would be their next big thing, like Avengers Campus in California. But where would they put it? I would think HS would be the most likely, but now with Cosmic Rewind, would it be put in Epcot? that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but neither did Cosmic Rewind being at Epcot (Not complaining... I think it's awesome epcot has a big thrill ride) I honestly figured Rock n Rollercoaster would have been transformed to a Guardians ride before i heard they got their own.
I will say that Universal Studios is definitely right there with Disney. My son is Almost 9 and we are surprising him a trip with Disney... but if Nintendo world was already open... that is where we would have gone. The only problem with him is he is not a thrill seeker, so There isn't much for him to ride at Universal. I do hear a lot from other kids his age saying they prefer Universal over Disney. Nintendo World will definitely take away some of the days that people would have spent at Disney. Its huge with kids 5 and up and major Nostolgia with their parents.

I think certain Marvel IP placement is problematic in WDW based on current agreements - I don't know all the details -

 

[Smugpugmug]

I think certain Marvel IP placement is problematic in WDW based on current agreements - I don't know all the details -

The agreement is that Disney is not allowed to use characters that appear in Universal's Marvel Super Hero Island at parks located on the east of the Mississippi. The big one of those characters being Spiderman so that's why Disneyland can get Web Slingers and WDW cannot. Other characters that I think Disney isn't allowed to use are the Hulk, Wolverine, Iron Man and Captain America.

 

[Dcgc28]

While I think Universal is taking a step in the right direction with their new park, I don’t particularly think it worries Disney as much as some may want it to. All 4 Disney World parks typically get more visitors than Universal Orlando, and Hollywood for that matter. I don’t see a 5 year hiatus coming either. Disney is constantly bringing out the next great movie that they can then market and sell at WDW.

If anything I could see a mor solid rotation with all these films being featured more and more. I’d love a 5th gate. But the expenditure is not necessary right now. Even when Epic opens and maybe beats Disney for a year or two on attendance can they beat them in 5 years? 10-15? Like Disney has demonstrated the ability to do. That remains to be seen.

At the end of the day How to train your Dragon and Monsters just aren’t as popular as what Disney has come out almost on a yearly basis. Mario has a lot of popularity but it’s also a lot of nostalgia based popularity. So can those areas with stand years and years of visits? I guess time will tell.

 

[john7994]

The agreement is that Disney is not allowed to use characters that appear in Universal's Marvel Super Hero Island at parks located on the east of the Mississippi. The big one of those characters being Spiderman so that's why Disneyland can get Web Slingers and WDW cannot. Other characters that I think Disney isn't allowed to use are the Hulk, Wolverine, Iron Man and Captain America.

Thank you! So if it were a relationship description on Facebook, it would be "it's complicated".