Will the monorail ever be expanded?

[zulemara]

The other thing that has to be kept in mind, though, is that diversification is key. I do think a lot could be improved by having monorail loops to each park and all dropping at once central location like the TTC, thus meaning all buses are only running point to point and back. The problem with more reliance on monorails is that they break, ppl are slow to load and unload, ppl puke on them, have medical emergencies, etc etc. Having the balance between boats, busses, and monorails means if one goes down, one picks up the slack. When it is too windy for Ferry boats, monorails pick up the slack. When the rails go down on the resort loop, watercraft picks up the slack. When they are both down, which is very rare, then buses come in and pick up the slack.

Just last week I was headed to EPCOT. There were 3 trains on the loop as usual. One was at EPCOT unloading, I was in the one waiting by EEE, and my friend told me the 3rd one was holding behind me. That means people at the TTC did not even see an EPCOT monorail for at least 15 minutes. Then people make assumptions about budget cuts or something stupid like that. Anyway, my point is since you can only get from TTC to EPCOT via monorail, it's a good example of the bad side of things if they were to implement the same policy across the parks.

Now let me be clear, I think at the very least they need to upgrade our monorails. They are old, they break down all the time, and are in desperate need of an overhaul. While an expansion would be awesome, it has to be done right in order to account for operational delays that exist in a given days, and I didn't even throw in the time required when they change loops and such.

 

[Snowgod]

Here is how the Monorail would generate more income. Park visitors would be able to switch parks in a fraction of the time making park Hopper tickets even more necessary than they are now. Adding just the 4 or 5 miles needed to connect DHS to the Epcot loop would allow them to build a station somewhere near the boardwalk bridge behind Atlantic Dance. Many more people would go to the Boardwalk at night increasing the need for the restaurants and clubs. DVC would find increased sales and demand for the Boardwalk area increasing perceived values as would the other resorts. And finally, no-body wants to take the bus if they can go by Monorail. The Monorail is like Customer Service, it is hard to quantify the value of investing in it.

 

[doconeill]

Since we're for wild ideas...here's another way to make it income-generating (if they don't at least ascribe MK parking fees - at least partially - to the system).

Greatly increase parking at DTD. Keep it free. But have a monorail station where to board you must have a KTTW card or pay for a ticket. Keep it lower cost than park parking though. Have stops at the intermediate resorts, and just as a safety measure at SSR have the same requirements to prevent people walking around to bypass the fee.

 

[tjkraz]

In my original post I suggested an expansion involving a loop from Epcot, through the Swan/Dolphin Epcot resort area and then on to DHS and AK. Those resort areas have thousands of hotel rooms, making the monorail possibly capable of moving 10,000 plus guests on the Epcot/DHS/AK loop alone.

Problem is the only transportation Disney currently provides to those areas is limited boat transportation. Most guests staying at YC/BC/Dolphin/Swan/BoardWalk walk to Epcot and DHS. There are no buses operating between those hotels and theme parks.

So you're not replacing "A" with "B"...you're spending hundreds-of-millions in construction and then added overhead to operate & maintain the trains.

Here is how the Monorail would generate more income. Park visitors would be able to switch parks in a fraction of the time making park Hopper tickets even more necessary than they are now.

I doubt that would add to Disney's bottom line. Park hopper tickets are something of a necessary evil. Disney doesn't really want to make it easy for you to pay a few extra dollars so that you can ride Space Mountain, Soarin and Toy Story Mania in a single day. They would much rather see guests buy longer multi-day passes and spend whole days in a single park. That encourages more restaurant spending and can increase shopping revenue during down times.

Park hoppers encourage guests to visit the parks almost exclusively for the attractions and to ultimately take shorter trips.

Adding just the 4 or 5 miles needed to connect DHS to the Epcot loop would allow them to build a station somewhere near the boardwalk bridge behind Atlantic Dance.

Not really sure I see the appeal in running a monorail track (and station) through the Atlantic seaside theming of the BW area. Besides, by the time BW-area guests walk to a centralized monorail station, half the time they would have been better off just walking to their final destination.

DVC would find increased sales and demand for the Boardwalk area increasing perceived values as would the other resorts.

The DVC villas at the BoardWalk and Beach Club have been sold out for years. Disney doesn't have anything substantial to gain in that regard for another 32 years when ownership of those villas will revert back to them.

And finally, no-body wants to take the bus if they can go by Monorail.

Depends.

Let's say they do build your central station near Atlantic Dance Hall. I'm staying at the Beach Club and want to go to the Magic Kingdom.

First I walk from my room to the station--a good 8-10 minutes from the BC. At the station I board a monorail which next stops at Hollywood Studios. Then it proceeds to the Epcot station. From there we're off to the Transportation and Ticket Center.

At the TTC I need to get off and switch trains. Wait in line for an undetermined amount of time (could be 2 minutes--could be 20 minutes) and finally I'm on the MK Express monorail.

So my journey includes a walk to the load platform, 2 station waits, 3 train stops (non of which are my destination) and a train change.

I'm not sure that's much of an improvement on bus service which goes right from the BC/YC to the MK entrance.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Just curious... how exactly do Disney buses generate revenue for Disney

Well.. it's interesting you see.. once upon a time things were setup kinda differently. Park tickets generated revenue for transportation.

Because once upon a time.. all transportation was grouped into a unique division of Disney and for every park ticket sold .. a piece of that ticket's price was peeled off and went to pay the expenses for the transportation division and it actually even said something to that effect on your park ticket.

The piece went to the transportation whether the guest actually used any transportation or not.

That whole setup has long been done away with.. but it was an interesting approach to say the least... if I remembering it all right. I might have goofed up some details.

K

 

[the who #3]

i, for one, wish they would run the monorail to ak and akl. i think the akl would have a lot more business that way, and also ak park. all other areas would be terrific also.

if they required a fast pass to ride the monorail it might be considered more important. after all it is just about the grandest ride in wdw. it is almost like another park. if you think about it, it is pretty exciting.

 

[skiingfast]

I think the monorail may need to be resigned whollly to expand. I'm guessing that while the bus fleet turns over it is gaining fuel savings. On my last trip I rode on a bus that is just like my local public transit. Our's now has hybrids and while at disney I did notice their newer buses are quiet and the cabin is the same I didn't notice if they have batteries where ares do.

The Monorails on the other hand still use the same power system, and while probably the energy to move the train sets may not have made many gains since 1970.

I think running it to the boardwalk resorts and DHS wouldn't be hard. A new circiut incorporating them is not much bigger than the current loop around the seven seas lagoon. Theaming wouldn't be a problem either since a monorail at the GF of Poly hasn't been a major dilemma.

Running to AK from Epcot is about the same distance from Epcot to the TTC.

Making all the delux resorts monorail resorts would become a much better way to differentiate them as premium.

As they add gates and resorts alterante transportation will be welcome. The longest walk all day is the walk from the gate to your resorts bus.

 

[GrumpyFan]

As would most everybody here, I would love to see the monorails expanded. However, I know that in reality, Disney will probably never spend the money to do so, mostly due to the cost. Regardless, I would love to see them expand the transit system by build a Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) style system with small pods/cars that would connect the entire resort, or at the least the Deluxe hotels and the parks. I think a PRT type system would be a lot more efficient and inexpensive in comparison to the monorail.
On a related note, I'm really hoping that when the Florida High Speed rail line and station are built that maybe they will expand the transportation system in some way.

 

[doconeill]

Another thought given no budget constraints - if they wanted to build something leading edge again, and weren't concerned with interoperability between the lines - maglev. It's got very similar design issues to monorail (complex switching, etc.) but it still futuristic at this point.

 

[ShinjiMickey]

Another thought given no budget constraints - if they wanted to build something leading edge again, and weren't concerned with interoperability between the lines - maglev. It's got very similar design issues to monorail (complex switching, etc.) but it still futuristic at this point.

OMG Maglev would be soooooooo awsome.... Great technology IMO and a GREAT alternative to the monorail. Since were throwing crazy ideas out there, heres one from me. How bout a grand central station type hub somewhere around the yachtmans club resort parking lot or the Dolphin? For buses you would have a stop for every resort, theme park, and major destinations i.e. DTD, and the ESPN sports complex... You would place a monorail station here to serve boardwalk and complete the loop to DHS. There would also be Taxis, and a large parking deck or lot around the station. Now that I think about it theres not many parking decks around disney. You could even go as far as putting some retail and may-b a QS dining option. Earl of Sandwich would be a great idea, seems to be popular... AGAIN very hypothetical me dreaming...

 

[skiingfast]

MAGLEV

Disney almost did, this in the TTA.

I went on a MAGLEV monorail in 1986 or 7, it was just for demostration it was ok but what I understood about it is that it was very inefficient and a like system was never produced.

Now the one in Shangai is supposed to be great but there are a few problems with it, when applied to WDW. The distances between stations are very short while in China it goes a couple hundreds of miles per hour this would mean stop and start with no sharp turns in the world. The other is we don't know if it is an energy efficient manner or transport. China's word is not reliable and the technology isn't being sold to the rest of the world. Maybe China spent 1T on it with cheap labor and materials to boot, because that third world country wants to show how superior it is. I mean this is a country when compaired to the US where we have steam trains around an amusment park they have them still powered by coal used by industry.

 

[skiingfast]

On a related note, I'm really hoping that when the Florida High Speed rail line and station are built that maybe they will expand the transportation system in some way.

I think that FL won't get this built between Orlando and Tampa. I can see the need, but is will be an island of track. This just dampens reality.

It would be great if it went to the tampa and orlando airports and has a stop at WDW. If not for ME that would insure a few thousands resort guests riding each day. But then WDW would really need a true TTC. Not the one built before they had 4/6 gates and 20 resorts. I could definitly see a monorail streching to DTD in this case.

But if ever built the high speed line isn't likely to travel near WDW. Most likely will follow current rail lines, which is a little south of the southern tip of WDW. Good news is it isn't far off the airport.

 

[skiingfast]

I think that FL won't get this built between Orlando and Tampa. I can see the need, but is will be an island of track. This just dampens reality.

It would be great if it went to the tampa and orlando airports and has a stop at WDW. If not for ME that would insure a few thousands resort guests riding each day. But then WDW would really need a true TTC. Not the one built before they had 4/6 gates and 20 resorts. I could definitly see a monorail streching to DTD in this case.

But if ever built the high speed line isn't likely to travel near WDW. Most likely will follow current rail lines, which is a little south of the southern tip of WDW. Good news is it isn't far off the airport.

Well wouldn't you thunk it two days later I read an article about this.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2453952

 

[skiingfast]

I was thinking about how people say it's so cost prohibitive Disney did build a monorail about 10 years ago with 5 stations and it is roughly the same length nessecary to add onto the WDW sytem a loop around the Epcot resorts and down to DHS.

Think hard where it is.

No, not the Las Vegas Monorail, though another good example. The Disneyland resort in Tokyo. It even has special windows.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I was thinking about how people say it's so cost prohibitive Disney did build a monorail about 10 years ago with 5 stations and it is roughly the same length nessecary to add onto the WDW sytem a loop around the Epcot resorts and down to DHS.

Think hard where it is.

No, not the Las Vegas Monorail, though another good example. The Disneyland resort in Tokyo. It even has special windows.

Except Disney didn't PAY for it.. rather they were paid FOR it.. by the Oriental Land Company who actually owns DL Tokyo. That company owns the parks in Japan and licenses the names, characters and brands from Disney thru hefty annual fees and by paying Disney's imagineering arm to do the work required to build and create the parks...

Construction and engineering costs were the responsibility of the OLC ... including the monorail. Disney made all kinds of money on that deal and didn't risk "Disney" money to do so.

From wikipedia:

The company was originally focused on improving leisure opportunities in Japan, such as building swimming pools and gyms. It approached The Walt Disney Company in 1980 to finance the first international Disney park. After Tokyo Disneyland was opened in 1983, the Oriental Land Company decided not to sell the park back to Disney. Walt Disney Attractions Japan pays Disney for character and likeness licenses, and Disney has leased their Imagineers to the company to design and build Tokyo Disneyland, as well as a second theme park, Tokyo DisneySea, which opened in 2001.

 

[ChrisFL]

Not to mention that Tokyo's Monorail is not free to ride

 

[Lewisc]

The Las Vegas Monorail filed for bankruptcy. You're right. It is a good example, but not the way you intended.

No, not the Las Vegas Monorail, though another good example. The Disneyland resort in Tokyo. It even has special windows.

 

[skiingfast]

Except Disney didn't PAY for it.. rather they were paid FOR it.. by the Oriental Land Company who actually owns DL Tokyo. That company owns the parks in Japan and licenses the names, characters and brands from Disney thru hefty annual fees and by paying Disney's imagineering arm to do the work required to build and create the parks...

Construction and engineering costs were the responsibility of the OLC ... including the monorail. Disney made all kinds of money on that deal and didn't risk "Disney" money to do so.

From wikipedia:

I never said that Disney was paying for the building of a monorail. I'm am just suggesting that people are willing to pay for monorails. Thus proof that there is possibility that WDW could get more monorails lines.

Disney didn't make all the money it wants on the Tokyo deal. For two large reasons. It made a deal to build the park without risking the capital. The same plan it used to build Disneland in Anaheim. Of course the OLC didn't opt to sell Disney a share in the park after completion. Second Japan used restriction on foreign investment. Disney couldn't of ever been The owner of the Toko Disney Resort.

Also I know that it has come up on this discussion. The monorail at WDW isn't truly free, it is subsidized by guests who pay more for tickets and hotel rates on the Monorail line. Japan has a different culture, and consumers and businesses do not operate in the same manner as in the US.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Not to mention that Tokyo's Monorail is not free to ride

No way.. how much do they charge?

--

All I was speaking to with the OLC was that Disney hasn't had the appetite for that kind of *real* risk in a while now..

Too bad really.. You can add me to the list of those who would dearly love to see the Monorail expanded.. but I don't expect it soon.

Of course, I never really expected the Treehouse Villas to open again either.. And Disney surprised me on that one.

 

[tjkraz]

You can try to rationalize a monorail extension but I just don't see it happening.

WDW guests don't want to be asked to pay extra for transportation. And you can't exactly bundle it up in hotel rate increases when Disney is already being forced to discount 30% just to rent its rooms. Disney is trying its darndest just to wean people off of those discounts without adding hundreds-of-millions in monorail construction and operating costs.

In terms of development, whatever monies would be spent on a longer monorail line would be much better served going into the parks themselves.